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Old 08-02-2019, 11:54 PM   #1
Cobra Mgr
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Jury took 45 minutes

Forty. Five. Minutes. Dude was kicked out of school. On charges that took 12 people less than an hour to unanimously agree were false.
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Old 08-03-2019, 06:36 AM   #2
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Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.
There was not enough proof to find him guilty. That IS NOT the same as saying the allegations are false.
There was not enough proof for 12 people to say O. J. was guilty. That does not say the allegations against him were false.
Sorry, but having spent 20 years in the court system has made me a little touchy.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:17 AM   #3
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Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.
There was not enough proof to find him guilty. That IS NOT the same as saying the allegations are false.
There was not enough proof for 12 people to say O. J. was guilty. That does not say the allegations against him were false.
Sorry, but having spent 20 years in the court system has made me a little touchy.
Touchy or not, doesn't it sound fishy to you that TWO women claim they were assaulted by ONE man @ the same time w/o any weapon? There was videotape of the women, who claimed to be intoxicated, not appearing drunk.

But since you were in the court system, how often does a jury come back with a not guilty verdict in less than an hour on a publicly known serious charge like this?
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Old 08-03-2019, 06:45 PM   #4
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Touchy or not, doesn't it sound fishy to you that TWO women claim they were assaulted by ONE man @ the same time w/o any weapon? There was videotape of the women, who claimed to be intoxicated, not appearing drunk.

But since you were in the court system, how often does a jury come back with a not guilty verdict in less than an hour on a publicly known serious charge like this?
Typically the quicker they come back, the more it points to not guilty. That doesn't always translate into innocent. And apparently an allegation is all the school needs.
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Old 08-04-2019, 08:42 AM   #5
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Typically the quicker they come back, the more it points to not guilty. That doesn't always translate into innocent. And apparently an allegation is all the school needs.
It may not point to innocence. But I think we can all agree it points to how questionable the "evidence" was. And I think being accused is not enough to disrupt a person's path toward his future.

Newsflash to everyone: PEOPLE LIE.World leaders lie. "Men of God" lie. Police lie. Lawyers lie. Teachers lie. Executives lie. Housewives lie. Children lie. An accusation alone should not be enough to ruin a person's career.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:15 AM   #6
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Of course people lie and allegations without reasonable or substantial evidence should not ruin a persons career.
A prosecutor I worked with would not even take a case to court with just he said, she said evidence. He would not even take child cases to court unless he felt like there was enough evidence to get a conviction without the child testifying since children tend to freeze up in court.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:19 PM   #7
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It may not point to innocence. But I think we can all agree it points to how questionable the "evidence" was. And I think being accused is not enough to disrupt a person's path toward his future.
Absolutely agree. This case especially. From what little I read I am surprised it took them 45 minutes. Maybe they had a cigarette break?

However, those outside the court system are not always bound by those decisions. A simple accusation may be enough.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:42 PM   #8
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Absolutely agree. This case especially. From what little I read I am surprised it took them 45 minutes. Maybe they had a cigarette break?

However, those outside the court system are not always bound by those decisions. A simple accusation may be enough.
I recognize what they can do. But what we can do is not always what we should do. In this "Me too" era, we've gone from the extreme of always protecting the public figure to the extreme of always demonizing the public figure. Where is the balance? Everyone now is afraid of the PR hit and would rather make an individual suffer. Why can't we be courageous enough to be fair?
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:12 AM   #9
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I recognize what they can do. But what we can do is not always what we should do. In this "Me too" era, we've gone from the extreme of always protecting the public figure to the extreme of always demonizing the public figure. Where is the balance? Everyone now is afraid of the PR hit and would rather make an individual suffer. Why can't we be courageous enough to be fair?

Have you seen the previews for the movie coming out about Brian Banks? As far as I can tell the woman that fabricated the rape charges against Banks was never charged for doing so. In fact, she profited from a lawsuit settlement to the tune of 1.5 millions dollars. Insane.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:25 AM   #10
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Have you seen the previews for the movie coming out about Brian Banks? As far as I can tell the woman that fabricated the rape charges against Banks was never charged for doing so. In fact, she profited from a lawsuit settlement to the tune of 1.5 millions dollars. Insane.
I've seen ads. Is he the same one from Iowa? I remember an SI article on a case like his where the prosecutor defended the state's actions by saying the constitution assures a citizen a speedy trial, not a fair one. My jaw hit the floor when I read it.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:47 AM   #11
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I recognize what they can do. But what we can do is not always what we should do. In this "Me too" era, we've gone from the extreme of always protecting the public figure to the extreme of always demonizing the public figure. Where is the balance? Everyone now is afraid of the PR hit and would rather make an individual suffer. Why can't we be courageous enough to be fair?
Again, agreed. But in the real world when it concerns organizations or businesses there is no fair. There is no being courageous. Good or bad PR is the driving force behind revenue, the most important aspect.

They don't care what's said, done, or even consider what is right or wrong. Their focus is on how much revenue they could gain or lose. A PR rep. will come forth with a line of BS, but the driving force is the impact on revenue.

Case and point is the Duck Dynasty issue. I'm not going to get into the details but you saw the about face when things went wrong when their initial decision went awry. Businesses backtracked and reversed course. What happened? What happened to "We do not share the opinions of blah blah blah" I'll tell you what happened. Their revenue was threatened and they came out with an even bigger line of BS to take it all back.

This is what all businesses do. They don't make a stand. They are never courageous. They do what's in their best interest regardless of what's right or wrong. Take the latest Starbuck's shutdown. Do you really think they give a good god damn about anything but PR?
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:05 AM   #12
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Again, agreed. But in the real world when it concerns organizations or businesses there is no fair. There is no being courageous. Good or bad PR is the driving force behind revenue, the most important aspect.

They don't care what's said, done, or even consider what is right or wrong. Their focus is on how much revenue they could gain or lose. A PR rep. will come forth with a line of BS, but the driving force is the impact on revenue.

Case and point is the Duck Dynasty issue. I'm not going to get into the details but you saw the about face when things went wrong when their initial decision went awry. Businesses backtracked and reversed course. What happened? What happened to "We do not share the opinions of blah blah blah" I'll tell you what happened. Their revenue was threatened and they came out with an even bigger line of BS to take it all back.

This is what all businesses do. They don't make a stand. They are never courageous. They do what's in their best interest regardless of what's right or wrong. Take the latest Starbuck's shutdown. Do you really think they give a good god damn about anything but PR?
I know what they do. Doesn't mean I have to sit here & not call it out. Just as they get push back if they decide to wait it out, they should get the same when they jump to quickly. That's what I'm doing. I'm not ignorant.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:16 AM   #13
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As Reed points out, the college disciplinary process and the criminal proceedings were operating under different rules. In particular, the college process probably used a "preponderance of the evidence" standard of proof, which means "it's more likely than not that the defendant is responsible." The criminal trial used a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, which means "it's pretty damned likely he did it." That alone can explain the different outcomes.

Colleges have been placed in a terrible position by federal rules that require them to initiate disciplinary proceedings quickly, yet those rules give them no guidance on how to conduct those proceedings fairly. And colleges have proven, time and time again, that they suck at conducting disciplinary investigations.

Was justice done in this case? I have no idea. College disciplinary cases are usually closed to the public and their records are sealed, so it might be impossible to find out what sort of evidence was relied upon to kick Cephus off the Wisconsin team and expel him from school. Since colleges aren't bound by the rules of evidence used by courts, there might have been evidence introduced in the disciplinary case that was excluded from the trial. Did that happen in this case? We may never know, unless Cephus files his own lawsuit against Wisconsin.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:46 AM   #14
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As Reed points out, the college disciplinary process and the criminal proceedings were operating under different rules. In particular, the college process probably used a "preponderance of the evidence" standard of proof, which means "it's more likely than not that the defendant is responsible."
That may be what it is supposed to be, but that isn't how it is carried out a good portion of the time. Many times it's a "this is an annoyance we don't want to spare energy to see it all the way through, so let's cut bait" type of thing. Once more, 45 minutes. A year's worth of gathered evidence covered over a week during trial and they came away w/a verdict in 45 minutes of debate. I think that well speaks to either the flimsiness of the evidence or the incompetence of the prosecution.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:46 PM   #15
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That may be what it is supposed to be, but that isn't how it is carried out a good portion of the time. Many times it's a "this is an annoyance we don't want to spare energy to see it all the way through, so let's cut bait" type of thing.
Do you have any support for that claim, or is that more of an impressionistic sort of thing?

I'm the last person to defend college disciplinary procedures (well, maybe the next-to-last person), but I do think most people involved in the process are genuinely interested in seeking a fair resolution. Colleges, after all, have to cover their own butts, so they try to follow procedures that comport with a certain degree of due process. For a variety of reasons, only some of which are the colleges' fault, they often fail to measure up to that standard, but at least they make the attempt.

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Once more, 45 minutes. A year's worth of gathered evidence covered over a week during trial and they came away w/a verdict in 45 minutes of debate. I think that well speaks to either the flimsiness of the evidence or the incompetence of the prosecution.
Quite possibly, but then it might also speak to the stupidity of the jury. Without looking at the transcripts or the evidence, I wouldn't venture an opinion.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:28 PM   #16
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Do you have any support for that claim, or is that more of an impressionistic sort of thing?
W/all due respect, that is a silly question. Do you really think an institution would come out publicly say "We don't know what happened, but we don't want to be bothered" so that it could be counted?

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I'm the last person to defend college disciplinary procedures (well, maybe the next-to-last person), but I do think most people involved in the process are genuinely interested in seeking a fair resolution.
I think that's what most want too, initially. But when push comes to shove, shove doesn't want to push back. And this isn't w/just sexual accusations either. They do it w/eligibility violations, drugs arrests, assault charges etc.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:46 PM   #17
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W/all due respect, that is a silly question.
With all due respect, I don't think it is. Either you have some sort of support for the claim you made or else you don't. You can argue that colleges won't divulge any evidence of their own wrongdoing, but what you're left with then is the argument that, because there's no evidence of wrongdoing, we can conclude that the colleges are guilty of wrongdoing. Purely on a logical level, I don't buy that.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:11 PM   #18
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With all due respect, I don't think it is. Either you have some sort of support for the claim you made or else you don't. You can argue that colleges won't divulge any evidence of their own wrongdoing, but what you're left with then is the argument that, because there's no evidence of wrongdoing, we can conclude that the colleges are guilty of wrongdoing. Purely on a logical level, I don't buy that.
Don't expect you to buy it. But I don't expect you to dismiss it either. There may not be any concrete smoking gun to say these people have never had ulterior motives but you can't offer any that proves the opposite. All I can say is a historic observation of human behavior would tell anyone what man is capable of. To think that the easy way won't be taken when it's available is playing against the odds and a sign of blind faith.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:20 PM   #19
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So Cephus has been reinstated. Wisky says that changed due to evidence they weren't privy to. Bull chips.
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