The Lab: One-pitch reliever

[Wingedlion14]

So out of curiosity I've been messing around in the editor to see what's possible, and wanted to see if a reliever in theory could survive in the majors with only one pitch. To test this I edited a random player in the DSL, who I decided to rename "Subject One", and give him a 100+ mph fastball and 250 in movement and control and added him to the Cubs bullpen.

Here are the results (unfortunately I don't have the scouting report because I expected his career to be a bit longer, so I just have the stats. But when I initially edited him, his stuff was 60 and his control and movement were 80)

Also, injuries and suspensions are off.



So he was a very good reliever over his short career. However, it seems that once the fastball velocity decreased just a tiny bit, his career was over, as he went unsigned for two+ offseasons before retiring.

Now this was done giving the reliever the four-seam fastball. Obviously the sample size is small, so the results do have to be taken with a grain of salt. I wonder how the results would change if a different pitch was selected, which would be an interesting follow-up question.

[Wingedlion14]

also, obviously too late for that now, but how do you control the size of pictures?

[GoPedro99]

Try with sinker. Then knuckleball. Screwball. Try a bunch. Definitely those 3 tho

[MarkInCincy]

Riviera cutter

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[Dyzalot]

Rivera threw more than one kind of pitch.

[Danius]

It's crazy to see how many decisions he was getting involved in every year. That would seem to point to him being put in high-leverage situations quite often, and even though his overall numbers look good, I'd venture a guess that he blew a lot of saves, and then ended up with the win.

You would think that with his numbers in his last season with the Cubs (as well as his career numbers), someone would bite, but my guess is that the AI is hard-coded to only consider signing a reliever with two decent pitches, regardless of the effectiveness of the pitcher over his career. My guess is that if you tried other pitches, you'd get the same result, except for maybe the knuckleball (there are some two-pitch starters in fictional leagues with the knuckleball, whereas every other starter has three or more pitches).

[Danius]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Rivera threw more than one kind of pitch.

I think the point was that he probably would have been plenty effective with only the cutter.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Danius

I think the point was that he probably would have been plenty effective with only the cutter.

Perhaps but even with his cutter, he had the ability to control how much "cut" it had. That "one pitch" is very unlike almost any other kind of "one pitch". Even a knuckleball, which can vary wildly in its effect, is almost impossible for the pitcher throwing it to precisely control how much it breaks. Rivera's cutter was similar to being able to throw anything from a fastball that only cuts a little to what was effectively a full blown slider, and do it on purpose. It would almost be like if a pitcher could throw a curveball, slurve & slider but just called them all a "slurve". Sure, he only throws one pitch by name but effectively he throws two or three kinds of pitches.

[MarkInCincy]

Originally Posted by Danius

I think the point was that he probably would have been plenty effective with only the cutter.

Yeah I meant to give the test guy a maxed cutter like Riviera

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[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Rivera threw more than one kind of pitch.

i think with him he had the same grip, but could throw it multiple ways.

what a "pitch" is is a bit undefined in real-life, unlike OotP. if you go by what it does, he threw multiple types of pitches... if you go by grip, he threw one.

they often described him this way in media and during games and even how players described him... so, it shouldn't be unusual to hear.

nothing in ootp will be able to recreate anything quite like what rivera is... although those numbers are rock solid. clearly 1-pitch is no problem for a reliever in OotP. that guy is throwing one-pitch unlike rivera's that simply did what he wanted for that situation - freaky.

If a plain four-seamer works, then probably most of them will work... unless an extreme split for that particular pitch.. that could definitely cause some inconsistencies. but, that guy had many years of extreme consistency -- the sample is not lying to you. i see ~average babip... so some pitches may lower that a bit, but maybe a couple extra walks.. maybe lefties hit it better than righties blah blah blah. most will likley work fine, if "250" probably at least somewhat well at "200" too.

if his ratings did dip, it wasn't having an effect, yet. i can't see why he retired! maybe ootp "sees" 1-pitch and assumes they are crappy and retires them prematurely? evn the last year, that guy is a pimp.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by NoOne

i think with him he had the same grip, but could throw it multiple ways.

Both really. He threw a cutter about 85% of the time which in reality was an "infinite" number of pitches on a scale from just a slight cut to something similar to a slider. 15% of the time he also did actually throw a more conventional 4-seam fastball.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Since every single human on the planet has a fastball, that is, throwing as hard as they possibly can, any ability with another pitch makes you at least a two-pitch pitcher.

Every pitcher throws a fastball, perhaps only on 3-0 to the other pitcher, but they get thrown. Hoyt Wilhelm tried to slip one past batters often enough to keep them from focusing on the knuckler to exclusion of all else.

[NoOne]

not speaking of exact details -- i'm sure he threw a 4-seamer... but if the media and ny and mlb always say the same thing about him, you can't be surprised when that's how people talk about him.

not many lpayers can thrwo one pitch that often. it has to be special in some way.

i don't care bout the argument of semantics. sure he's a 2-pitch guy, but nothing like any of the other 2-pitch guys. that means something. it seems ootp basically says this about any 200+ rated pitch. or ~near 200, really. just a bonus, if above.

[chriskelly]

I always struggle with relievers. I look for high stuff, non flyball pitchers with 2 very good pitches. but, I can never tell if they out perform guys with 3 good pitches. when they fail, I can't tell the exact reason why; sometimes it's guys w/ average control who end up with a high WHIP, sometimes it's neutral pitchers that give up lots of HRs.

I've been told to look for guys with 2 very different pitches. What is your experience?

[NoOne]

when used as a releiver, they will throw the 3rd pitch less often than an SP, i believe... unless all equally rated i would hope.

a third pitch isn't necessary for great success is the best way to put it. i like it simpler for a reliever. i don't want a 3rd best pitchthrown at all if it provides zero benefit in the game due to the extra variation of pitches. therefore it can only hurt to throw a weaker 3rd pitch, even if infrequently thrown. (RL is another argument).

back of the pen type - shut-down reliever:

1 extremely good pitch and a good pitch is typically what i want. if both are amazing, that's just a bonus. the second pitch has to be good.

i like fb(one of them) and cb or sldier as my go to... knucklecurve less often seen but if strong i like it also.

i'm not a fan of splitters. even when highly rated they seem more volatile.

rescinded my thoughts on the sinker, and i don't think the game cares one bit about having 2 pitches of varying speeds at this point. probably applies to SP too on that latter point.