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Old 02-03-2018, 12:06 AM   #1
Claystone
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Stamina...

Hey fellas,

I've notice this twice in my gameplay. I have a RP with a stamina of 67 and he pitched 2 innings and was exhausted after 40 pitches. I was wondering what gives. I have a starter who who has 71 stamina and can go 7 innings. Is this something the game is coded for RP to keep them from pitching a lot of innings in a game?


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Old 02-03-2018, 08:09 AM   #2
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Thats it exactly. Starters are modeled to "pace" themselves while relievers come in and throw full bore.

You can see this by changing a starter to a reliever or reliever to starter and seeing the change in his "stuff" rating. as a starter it will go down as a reliever it will go up.
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:50 AM   #3
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I know this has been addressed on the forums before, but I am not sure how it is handled. If a pitcher is designated as a starting pitcher but placed in a reliever position, does he pitch like a starter or reliever?

Scenario 1:
Player X is a SP with 3 pitches and 70 stamina (20-80 scale). He is placed in a middle relief role and comes in to start the 6th inning. Will he be able to finish the game if he does not have trouble (15-20 pitches per inning)? This could put him around 80 pitches, a reasonable expectation if he starts the game.

Scenario 2:
Player Y is a RP with three pitches and 70 stamina (20-80 scale). As a reliever, he gets gassed after 40 pitches. If he starts the game, can he be expected to give 80-100 pitches if he is still labeled a reliever?
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msupoke View Post
I know this has been addressed on the forums before, but I am not sure how it is handled. If a pitcher is designated as a starting pitcher but placed in a reliever position, does he pitch like a starter or reliever?

Scenario 1:
Player X is a SP with 3 pitches and 70 stamina (20-80 scale). He is placed in a middle relief role and comes in to start the 6th inning. Will he be able to finish the game if he does not have trouble (15-20 pitches per inning)? This could put him around 80 pitches, a reasonable expectation if he starts the game.

Scenario 2:
Player Y is a RP with three pitches and 70 stamina (20-80 scale). As a reliever, he gets gassed after 40 pitches. If he starts the game, can he be expected to give 80-100 pitches if he is still labeled a reliever?
The label you see doesn't matter to the game engine. If a labeled SP is used as a RP the engine sees him as a RP and is a labeled RP is used as a starter the engine sees him as a SP.

So you are not fooling the game engine into giving a pitcher better stuff by labeling him a RP and starting him.

As for stamina a RP with a 70 stamina will be able to go more than 40 pitches as a SP (longer than he can as a RP). The reason is as mentioned above, a RP goes all out for a short period of time while a SP paces himself. As I said above, the game engine looks at the pitchers actual usage, internally a pitchers stuff may be lower when a pitcher is used as a SP than it is as a RP (to model the SP v RP approach to pitching).

Last edited by byzeil; 02-03-2018 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:41 PM   #5
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Thank you. It is not really for fooling the AI, but just to understand how to handle a long reliever or a young starting pitcher who can help in the bullpen even though he is destined to start down the road.
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:36 PM   #6
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Stamina, Long-Relief Pitchers

If I may, this current system defeats the purpose of long relievers who can go 3-5 innings in a blowout and IMO needs an adjustment. Currently, the only way I can have a guy go at least three innings out of the bullpen in a mop-up role in a blowout is by doing one of two options:

Option 1 - Have a starter in my bullpen labeled as a starter who I then cannot use for another five days regardless of whether he throws 1 pitch or 100 pitches.
Option 2 - leave the pitcher as RP and use him for one inning before he gets tired, use another guy for an inning, and essentially burn through my bullpen.

Maybe the option for this is to have a long relief role that can go some distance or maybe to just have pitchers as pitchers. Or alternatively, have the starting pitcher energy adjusted so that the amount of pitches thrown impacts their energy the next day as opposed to always being exhausted regardless of pitches thrown? I could just be doing something completely wrong though and be looking rather silly, which is possible.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:41 PM   #7
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option one doesn't work because it's about use, not label of sp/rp. so even if the "sp" is used as a long reliever they'll get tired like a reliever.

you can get 2ip out of ~40pitches most times. seeing 2.2ip out of a LR game log isn't odd either. so it's not quite as bad as how you describe it.

an sp that throws ~15 pitches still recovers in ~1* day (*settings, 1 day strain etc ends day). it doesn't take ~5 days. it's based on # of pitches. no worries there if you had to use one it might only delay them 1 day of recovery in some cases.

there's definitely a hole in the current system. can't argue that. a LR should go as much as ~60pitches or more stamina/rest willing -- this sort of thing can't be commonplace for any bullpen to survive without some call-ups, though. they could expand the range and effect of stamina a bit or add a third category somehow etc... a better compromise seems possible. the differences between roles: sp/rp/lr and roles: sp/rp as far as stamina is concenred is very similar. LR prepare differently than RP. they are 'stretched' out more.

If Simming, only:
RP are often used for ~2ip by the AI anyway. for ootp, it's argueably best to find the optimum # of pitches relative to recovery time needed (per player's stamina/role) so that they can be used the most over time. extreme contexts might change that perspective a bit.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
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option one doesn't work because it's about use, not label of sp/rp. so even if the "sp" is used as a long reliever they'll get tired like a reliever.
The other way round makes a difference though. If you have a high stamina guy labelled as an RP start then he'll get tired after 2-3 innings, but if you label him as a starter then he'll be able to go deeper.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:50 PM   #9
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then someone misspoke before (old post, think this year). so it's about 'role' not how it's used? better confirm. pretty inconsequential for me. this doesn't require speculation.. simply test in game.

they were adamant: role won't matter, if used as a releiver their stamina is affected as a releiver. it's one or the other. the code wouldn't waffle between the 2 mechanics without cause.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:56 PM   #10
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Resurrecting an old thread to mention that in my experience, the role you have a pitcher set to is what affects his stamina. So a pitcher marked SP will last longer even if he comes in as a reliever. I found this out experimenting with the "opener" role. I had an RP pitch the first inning, and then my normal SP came in. He pitched ~90 pitches while still showing "OK" when I pulled him after six innings. This makes sense because pitchers set to SP get a knock on their stuff. So their endurance should be higher no matter when they're played. This was in OOTP 18 though, and I've heard they changed things in OOTP 19 where it worked differently. I've also heard they may have changed things back in OOTP 20 specifically to accommodate the opener role.
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Old 10-21-2019, 09:56 AM   #11
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Things were definitely re-worked some for OOTP20 when they introduced Openers.
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