New All-Time Greatest Rosters project?

Garlon · 02-04-2017, 01:07 PM

I am considering creating a new All-Time Greatest rosters set for a single season play. The one that is currently available in the quickstart has some issues since the player ratings are drawn from their real life stats which are obviously from different eras in baseball. In order to have a legitimate matchup of the greatest players from different eras their statistics need to be translated to the same environment. The Davenport Translations offer this.

I am thinking that for players wo are on a team's all-time greatest roster that using best seasons is not the way to go because many players have a couple great seasons nor is career average the way to go as players who played longer may be penalized than players with shorter careers. So I'm thinking that for players with fewer than 5000 PA their career average will be used; for players with 5000-7499 PA the average of their career average plus their best 7 seasons will be used each weighted at 50%; for players with 7500-9999 PA their career average plus their 5 best seasons will be used each weighted at 50% ; and for players with 10000 or more PA their career average plus their 3 best seasons will be used each weighted at 50%.

To give you an idea here is an example with Ty Cobb:
In the current quickstart that comes with OOTP Cobb has these stats in the editor:

AB: 550
H: 223
2B: 37
3B: 17
HR: 8
BB: 56
HP: 6
SO: 48
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS: .405/.466/.578/.1.044

If we go with translated stats in which Cobb's career DT stats are averaged with his 3 best seasons:

AB: 550
H: 203
2B: 43
3B: 11
HR: 24
BB: 61
HBP: 6
SO: 59
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS: .369/.438/.618/1.056

The translated stats puts everyone in the same scoring environment. Players from earlier eras like Cobb will have more power and pitcher from that era will strike out more batters bit also give up more HRs.

I'm thinking of creating a roster set with the 30 teams plus a negro league squad and an 1800's squad for players who played between 1871-1893. There will be about 40 players per team. Every team gets their two best players at each position plus an additional two more players for 20 position players and then another 20 pitchers. In theory there will be enough players to field 64 teams if you host a fantasy draft and turn off injuries.

Here is the Cubs team:

C Hartnett Davis
1B Grace Chance Cavaretta
2B Sandberg Herman Evers
3B Santo Hack
SS Banks Tinker
LF Williams Nicholson
CF Wilson Pafko
RF Sosa Cuyler

SP Brown Vaughn
SP Jenkins Warneke
SP Griffith Reulbach
SP Root Reuschel
SP Bush Zambrano

RP Wood Bush
RP Sutcliffe Regan
RP Marmol Rondon
RP Elston Passeau

CL Sutter Farnsworth
CL Williams Russell

Here are some Translated Stats for these players:

AB H 2B 3B HR BB HBP K
Cuyler 550 166 36 10 18 62 10 104
Sosa 550 160 26 3 44 67 3 138
Banks 550 160 31 4 39 53 5 83
Sandberg 550 164 31 5 27 54 2 85
Grace 550 171 36 3 14 72 2 42
Santo 550 161 32 4 29 88 4 97
Williams 550 168 33 3 33 61 4 66
Hartnett 550 156 28 0 35 68 3 113
Wilson 550 157 27 1 43 86 3 159

mgom27 · 02-04-2017, 09:22 PM

Where's Bryant,Baez,Zobrist,Arrieta,Chapman,Lester and so on the Cubs? For Indians one guy that is needed Andrew Miller.

actionjackson · 02-05-2017, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgom27

Where's Bryant,Baez,Zobrist,Arrieta,Chapman,Lester and so on the Cubs? For Indians one guy that is needed Andrew Miller.

All-time rosters, not the latest and greatest.

actionjackson · 02-05-2017, 02:08 PM

This sounds like an awesome idea Garlon. Also, it's nice to see you in these parts again.

actionjackson · 02-05-2017, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlon

I am considering creating a new All-Time Greatest rosters set for a single season play. The one that is currently available in the quickstart has some issues since the player ratings are drawn from their real life stats which are obviously from different eras in baseball. In order to have a legitimate matchup of the greatest players from different eras their statistics need to be translated to the same environment. The Davenport Translations offer this.

I am thinking that for players wo are on a team's all-time greatest roster that using best seasons is not the way to go because many players have a couple great seasons nor is career average the way to go as players who played longer may be penalized than players with shorter careers. So I'm thinking that for players with fewer than 5000 PA their career average will be used; for players with 5000-7499 PA the average of their career average plus their best 7 seasons will be used each weighted at 50%; for players with 7500-9999 PA their career average plus their 5 best seasons will be used each weighted at 50% ; and for players with 10000 or more PA their career average plus their 3 best seasons will be used each weighted at 50%.

To give you an idea here is an example with Ty Cobb:
In the current quickstart that comes with OOTP Cobb has these stats in the editor:

AB: 550
H: 223
2B: 37
3B: 17
HR: 8
BB: 56
HP: 6
SO: 48
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS: .405/.466/.578/.1.044

If we go with translated stats in which Cobb's career DT stats are averaged with his 3 best seasons:

AB: 550
H: 203
2B: 43
3B: 11
HR: 24
BB: 61
HBP: 6
SO: 59
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS: .369/.438/.618/1.056

The translated stats puts everyone in the same scoring environment. Players from earlier eras like Cobb will have more power and pitcher from that era will strike out more batters bit also give up more HRs.

I'm thinking of creating a roster set with the 30 teams plus a negro league squad and an 1800's squad for players who played between 1871-1893. There will be about 40 players per team. Every team gets their two best players at each position plus an additional two more players for 20 position players and then another 20 pitchers. In theory there will be enough players to field 64 teams if you host a fantasy draft and turn off injuries.

Here is the Cubs team:

C Hartnett Davis
1B Grace Chance Cavaretta
2B Sandberg Herman Evers
3B Santo Hack
SS Banks Tinker
LF Williams Nicholson
CF Wilson Pafko
RF Sosa Cuyler

SP Brown Vaughn
SP Jenkins Warneke
SP Griffith Reulbach
SP Root Reuschel
SP Bush Zambrano

RP Wood Bush
RP Sutcliffe Regan
RP Marmol Rondon
RP Elston Passeau

CL Sutter Farnsworth
CL Williams Russell

Here are some Translated Stats for these players:

AB H 2B 3B HR BB HBP K
Cuyler 550 166 36 10 18 62 10 104
Sosa 550 160 26 3 44 67 3 138
Banks 550 160 31 4 39 53 5 83
Sandberg 550 164 31 5 27 54 2 85
Grace 550 171 36 3 14 72 2 42
Santo 550 161 32 4 29 88 4 97
Williams 550 168 33 3 33 61 4 66
Hartnett 550 156 28 0 35 68 3 113
Wilson 550 157 27 1 43 86 3 159

Question for you: Where's Cap Anson for the Cubbies?

Garlon · 02-05-2017, 03:19 PM

Anson is on the 1800's Stars team. He played the majority of his career before 1893.

actionjackson · 02-05-2017, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlon

Anson is on the 1800's Stars team. He played the majority of his career before 1893.

D'oh! Forgot about that part of your OP. Carry on.

actionjackson · 02-05-2017, 06:06 PM

On your Cubbies team I count 18 position players and 22 pitchers. Is that as intended?

Garlon · 02-05-2017, 06:20 PM

Rosters are not fnalized yet. But I have created a fist draft of the rosters and have 18 position players for each team as of now.

actionjackson · 02-06-2017, 05:14 PM

Just gonna fire out some questions about your Cubbies roster and this project in general, not to be a jerk, but because I'm interested in it.

1) Why not Johnny Kling over Jody Davis at C?

2) Where's Lee Smith?

3) Maybe Bill Dahlen over Phil Cavaretta? (Unless you're trying to get 5 corner infielders and 5 up the middle infielders of course - in that case disregard)

4) I'm gonna assume that one of the two pitching Bushes is actually Bob Rush, because I can't find another Bush aside from Guy Bush.

5) I guess Bill C Lee and Bill Hands are on the just missed list at P?

6) Cuyler spent a lot more time in LF than Nicholson, who was mainly a RF. Therefore, Cuyler has a better chance of having a decent rating in LF unless you've accounted for this by adjusting the experience rating in the editor.

7) With players who played for multiple franchises, how do you determine who goes where? Accrued value or games played?

I love the idea and can't wait to see more in this thread. Thanks for your time.

mgom27 · 02-06-2017, 08:18 PM

None of those guys won a World Series with Cubs so how about Bryant and so on in Minors?

actionjackson · 02-06-2017, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgom27

None of those guys won a World Series with Cubs so how about Bryant and so on in Minors?

Bryant doesn't belong anywhere near a Cubs' all-time team. He's got two years of big league service time. He's a phenomenal talent, but he's not an all-time Cub. Not yet.

Garlon · 02-06-2017, 09:54 PM

1). I was down to Kling or Davis. I thought Kling was the way to go but the after looking at the stars I went with Davis. I'd be fine with either one.

2). Smith is on the Cardinals roster as he had more saves with them.

3). I was trying to get two players per position plus an extra two players that could be used as DH. This way every team has an A squad and a B squad.

4). Yes, I think it was a typo.

5). I replaced Lee with Warneke. Hands was close and perhaps he should be in the bullpen.

6). Cuyler played 500 more games in RF than in LF. RFers will be given additional eligibility in LF for flexibility. CFers will be able to play in all three OF positions.

7). I try to go with where they will be higher on the depth chart or where they played more or has their best seasons. It can be difficult for some players.

I don't want to have minor leagues and flood these rosters with too many players. I want it to be fun as a draft league.

The pitching staffs still need some work and I need to see if any players got missed who should have made some rosters. Some players are easy to master if they played for many teams during their career.

As a side note another version of such a roster set could be created with the best teams ever. The 2016 Cubs, the 1927 Yankees and so forth. These match ups can be due right now in the game but withe translated stats it should be more interesting.

actionjackson · 02-06-2017, 10:01 PM

Thanks for your answers Garlon.

actionjackson · 02-06-2017, 10:10 PM

Also, what does the Blue Jays roster look like? Just 40 years of history there, as opposed to teams like the Cubs who have 141 years of history (although they have "merely" 123 years of history for your purposes [1894-2016]).

Garlon · 02-07-2017, 07:52 AM

I will post their roster later, but here are a few players:

C: Whitt, Borders
1B: Delgado, McGriff, Olerud
2B: Alomar
3B: Gruber, Bautista
SS: Fernandez
OF: White, Barfield, Bell

mets · 03-16-2017, 08:48 AM

I am eager to learn more about this project .I am sure gamers are dying for a platform that levels the playing field for players across the decades to truly pit the greatest against each other .More details please..any ETA on a deliverable ?

actionjackson · 03-16-2017, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mets

I am eager to learn more about this project .I am sure gamers are dying for a platform that levels the playing field for players across the decades to truly pit the greatest against each other .More details please..any ETA on a deliverable ?

You can already do this by playing a random debut historical with Neutralized Stats in a modern era type of setting. I base every season I play off the 1984 season in terms of my League Totals Modifiers. Let me know if you want to know how to do this and I can help you with the setup. Of course, doing this allows all the average to mediocre to just plain bad Joes into your game, but you need them in order to balance the talent level in your game. Here are two guys that didn't hit many dingers IRL, but are doing just fine for themselves in this game thank you very much: 5 MVPs and 14 batting titles combined, and even one HR title. Not bad for a couple of dead ball era legends. Shoeless Joe Jackson and Home Run Baker:

mets · 03-17-2017, 09:37 AM

Thanks for the info .Can I select the players across the years that I want to is and place them on my team of choice, thereby creating an all time roster for each team ?

actionjackson · 03-17-2017, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mets

Thanks for the info .Can I select the players across the years that I want to is and place them on my team of choice, thereby creating an all time roster for each team ?

Check the Mods section of the board. You never know what these wonderful folks are gonna come up with. Somebody may have already done the work for you. Somebody out there (BigRod I think, but don't quote me on it) has invented a mass historical player import tool, and I think it's in one of the sections of the Mods section.

What I like about random debut is that it populates the game for me with players of all abilities, so the talent level is pretty consistent with what you see IRL, and yet you've got some dude that started playing in 1871 playing alongside a teammate who just started in 2015. If you've got your heart set on all-time rosters though (which is a very cool project), go for it. Just be aware that somebody may have already done the work for you, which is always nice.

02-04-2017, 01:07 PM	#1
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,748	New All-Time Greatest Rosters project? I am considering creating a new All-Time Greatest rosters set for a single season play. The one that is currently available in the quickstart has some issues since the player ratings are drawn from their real life stats which are obviously from different eras in baseball. In order to have a legitimate matchup of the greatest players from different eras their statistics need to be translated to the same environment. The Davenport Translations offer this. I am thinking that for players wo are on a team's all-time greatest roster that using best seasons is not the way to go because many players have a couple great seasons nor is career average the way to go as players who played longer may be penalized than players with shorter careers. So I'm thinking that for players with fewer than 5000 PA their career average will be used; for players with 5000-7499 PA the average of their career average plus their best 7 seasons will be used each weighted at 50%; for players with 7500-9999 PA their career average plus their 5 best seasons will be used each weighted at 50% ; and for players with 10000 or more PA their career average plus their 3 best seasons will be used each weighted at 50%. To give you an idea here is an example with Ty Cobb: In the current quickstart that comes with OOTP Cobb has these stats in the editor: AB: 550 H: 223 2B: 37 3B: 17 HR: 8 BB: 56 HP: 6 SO: 48 BA/OBP/SLG/OPS: .405/.466/.578/.1.044 If we go with translated stats in which Cobb's career DT stats are averaged with his 3 best seasons: AB: 550 H: 203 2B: 43 3B: 11 HR: 24 BB: 61 HBP: 6 SO: 59 BA/OBP/SLG/OPS: .369/.438/.618/1.056 The translated stats puts everyone in the same scoring environment. Players from earlier eras like Cobb will have more power and pitcher from that era will strike out more batters bit also give up more HRs. I'm thinking of creating a roster set with the 30 teams plus a negro league squad and an 1800's squad for players who played between 1871-1893. There will be about 40 players per team. Every team gets their two best players at each position plus an additional two more players for 20 position players and then another 20 pitchers. In theory there will be enough players to field 64 teams if you host a fantasy draft and turn off injuries. Here is the Cubs team: C Hartnett Davis 1B Grace Chance Cavaretta 2B Sandberg Herman Evers 3B Santo Hack SS Banks Tinker LF Williams Nicholson CF Wilson Pafko RF Sosa Cuyler SP Brown Vaughn SP Jenkins Warneke SP Griffith Reulbach SP Root Reuschel SP Bush Zambrano RP Wood Bush RP Sutcliffe Regan RP Marmol Rondon RP Elston Passeau CL Sutter Farnsworth CL Williams Russell Here are some Translated Stats for these players: AB H 2B 3B HR BB HBP K Cuyler 550 166 36 10 18 62 10 104 Sosa 550 160 26 3 44 67 3 138 Banks 550 160 31 4 39 53 5 83 Sandberg 550 164 31 5 27 54 2 85 Grace 550 171 36 3 14 72 2 42 Santo 550 161 32 4 29 88 4 97 Williams 550 168 33 3 33 61 4 66 Hartnett 550 156 28 0 35 68 3 113 Wilson 550 157 27 1 43 86 3 159

02-04-2017, 09:22 PM	#2
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,520	Where's Bryant,Baez,Zobrist,Arrieta,Chapman,Lester and so on the Cubs? For Indians one guy that is needed Andrew Miller. __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

02-06-2017, 05:14 PM	#10
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,123	Just gonna fire out some questions about your Cubbies roster and this project in general, not to be a jerk, but because I'm interested in it. 1) Why not Johnny Kling over Jody Davis at C? 2) Where's Lee Smith? 3) Maybe Bill Dahlen over Phil Cavaretta? (Unless you're trying to get 5 corner infielders and 5 up the middle infielders of course - in that case disregard) 4) I'm gonna assume that one of the two pitching Bushes is actually Bob Rush, because I can't find another Bush aside from Guy Bush. 5) I guess Bill C Lee and Bill Hands are on the just missed list at P? 6) Cuyler spent a lot more time in LF than Nicholson, who was mainly a RF. Therefore, Cuyler has a better chance of having a decent rating in LF unless you've accounted for this by adjusting the experience rating in the editor. 7) With players who played for multiple franchises, how do you determine who goes where? Accrued value or games played? I love the idea and can't wait to see more in this thread. Thanks for your time. Last edited by actionjackson; 02-06-2017 at 05:17 PM.

02-06-2017, 08:18 PM	#11
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,520	None of those guys won a World Series with Cubs so how about Bryant and so on in Minors? __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

03-16-2017, 08:48 AM	#17
mets Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 28	Great idea I am eager to learn more about this project .I am sure gamers are dying for a platform that levels the playing field for players across the decades to truly pit the greatest against each other .More details please..any ETA on a deliverable ?

02-05-2017, 02:08 PM	#4
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,123	This sounds like an awesome idea Garlon. Also, it's nice to see you in these parts again.

02-05-2017, 03:19 PM	#6
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,748	Anson is on the 1800's Stars team. He played the majority of his career before 1893.

02-05-2017, 06:06 PM	#8
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,123	On your Cubbies team I count 18 position players and 22 pitchers. Is that as intended?

02-05-2017, 06:20 PM	#9
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,748	Rosters are not fnalized yet. But I have created a fist draft of the rosters and have 18 position players for each team as of now.

02-06-2017, 09:54 PM	#13
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,748	1). I was down to Kling or Davis. I thought Kling was the way to go but the after looking at the stars I went with Davis. I'd be fine with either one. 2). Smith is on the Cardinals roster as he had more saves with them. 3). I was trying to get two players per position plus an extra two players that could be used as DH. This way every team has an A squad and a B squad. 4). Yes, I think it was a typo. 5). I replaced Lee with Warneke. Hands was close and perhaps he should be in the bullpen. 6). Cuyler played 500 more games in RF than in LF. RFers will be given additional eligibility in LF for flexibility. CFers will be able to play in all three OF positions. 7). I try to go with where they will be higher on the depth chart or where they played more or has their best seasons. It can be difficult for some players. I don't want to have minor leagues and flood these rosters with too many players. I want it to be fun as a draft league. The pitching staffs still need some work and I need to see if any players got missed who should have made some rosters. Some players are easy to master if they played for many teams during their career. As a side note another version of such a roster set could be created with the best teams ever. The 2016 Cubs, the 1927 Yankees and so forth. These match ups can be due right now in the game but withe translated stats it should be more interesting.

02-06-2017, 10:01 PM	#14
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,123	Thanks for your answers Garlon.

02-06-2017, 10:10 PM	#15
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,123	Also, what does the Blue Jays roster look like? Just 40 years of history there, as opposed to teams like the Cubs who have 141 years of history (although they have "merely" 123 years of history for your purposes [1894-2016]).

02-07-2017, 07:52 AM	#16
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,748	I will post their roster later, but here are a few players: C: Whitt, Borders 1B: Delgado, McGriff, Olerud 2B: Alomar 3B: Gruber, Bautista SS: Fernandez OF: White, Barfield, Bell

03-17-2017, 09:37 AM	#19
mets Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 28	Thanks for the info .Can I select the players across the years that I want to is and place them on my team of choice, thereby creating an all time roster for each team ?