Starting Pitching Discussion vs. 2019

petdawg · 03-23-2019, 09:29 PM

Hi All,

I know it is early, but I wanted to start the discussion on starting pitching. I know a lot of people including myself were not all that impressed with how starting pitchers did the higher league level you achieved. I am still seeing historical cards, 97 Pedro Martinez and 97 Seaver seem to be out performing modern cards like 100 Syndergaard, 100 Sale, 98 Scherzer. In fact Syndergaard has been getting shelled after several starts with an ERA over 6. It still seems control is by far the most important stat unless you have a stuff rating over 100. My 98 Corey Kluber with his 87 control is pitching lights out. 100 deGrom and 99 Verlander are pitching ok at best

My 100 Chris Sale was not pitching well either, but as we all know with last season's Perfect Team, left handed starters are not worth it. Watching my 100 Randy Johnson go from winning multiple MVP awards to getting crushed in Perfect level leagues really sucked. I noticed on the AH almost no one will even touch a 100 Randy Johnson as there was six of them on the AH earlier.

Just curios what other people are seeing and their feedback.

HiDesertAce · 03-23-2019, 11:11 PM

i think its very early to make judgements about which cards will perform at each level.

i almost bought one of the randy johnson's because i think ppl are overreacting and i think a perfect RJ for 50 K is about half the price it will end up at.

i think we will need several weeks of data before any judgements can be made about lefty pitchers and whether or not they can be effective.

I think that MOV is actually very important. if the ball doesn't move the better hitters are going to light them up like a pinball machine.

petdawg · 03-23-2019, 11:45 PM

I agree it is early and I am just looking for patterns compared to last year. It does bother me when a 100 Syndergaard and a 100 Sale are getting lit up by bronze and silver hitters like a Christmas tree. It may correct itself just like it could happen in a real baseball season, but it is worth keeping an eye on.

Hawks 27 · 03-23-2019, 11:59 PM

Having the same experience with the live Syndergaard card. Pure speculation on my part, but I think the overall rating is misleading. Historical cards (with a couple exceptions) perform better for me.

If I had to guess, devs setup historical cards with some sort of "x" factor in the background that leads to better performances than live cards of equal or higher overall rating.

It annoyed me at first but now I kinda like searching for older guys. Mixing old and current cards spices things up for me.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

Pointer1VB · 03-24-2019, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawks 27

If I had to guess, devs setup historical cards with some sort of "x" factor in the background that leads to better performances than live cards of equal or higher overall rating.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

More that live cards tend to focus on stuff to get their high overall rating and less on movement and control, while in the game movement and control are paramount. If you look at some of the statistical analysis people did with 19 on taking the raw stuff, movement, and control and finding correlation with FIP, movement was by far the most important stat. Historical pitchers tend to have higher movement so historical pitchers tend to perform better on a wide scale.

petdawg · 03-24-2019, 01:49 AM

I read all those analysis as well. Personally, I found my best success with starters that had stuff 105+ with around 80 control or better. Also historical cards were way better over live and RHP much better than LHP. I tried a ton of combinations, including some with high movement, but had mixed results. I thought I read somewhere that they were going to try and even out the live pitching cards wth the historic ones, but maybe I am mistaken.

I am not in front of my computer, but it seemed for example that the 100 Snydergaard was like upper 90s for stuff and in the mid 70s for movement and control. I would think he would be a pretty good pitcher, especially in the entry pool. I know five people that have that card and he is either in the bullpen or off the active roster on all of them. Imagine his stat line in a Perfect league.

I do find all of this very interesting and love the feedback. When I finally get to the perfect leagues, I would love to have some starters that might have an ERA under four.

Dogberry99 · 03-24-2019, 06:00 AM

In addition to having a very small sample size to pull from, it is unlikely that the entry leagues currently running will be truly representative of any one specific level of play. There is too much diversity in team builds (or lack thereof) right now.

Kushiel · 03-24-2019, 07:44 AM

I think until all levels are operating, we will not know anything in XX. My team wins in PT 19 with movement. I also carry 4 LH starters there: 100 Randy, 100 Sale, 96 Kershaw, and 86 Keuchel. But, I use them strategically. Nothing is written in stone even when we have good analytics coming in. In a month we will be having better samples.

petdawg · 03-24-2019, 11:44 AM

I am curious, did you win any championships with all those LHP? I would make the playoffs almost every year in the Perfect leagues, but was never a #1 or even a #2 seed. My offense was solid and my pitching was ok. When I got to the playoffs though, I was generally crushed.

UltimateAverageGuy · 03-24-2019, 12:28 PM

What the hell fun would the games be if every 100 rated guy was lights out every time? I mean seriously people

Hawks 27 · 03-24-2019, 12:57 PM

That's a fair point. There should definitely be strategy beyond assembling all the perfect cards you can.

Kushiel · 03-24-2019, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petdawg

I am curious, did you win any championships with all those LHP? I would make the playoffs almost every year in the Perfect leagues, but was never a #1 or even a #2 seed. My offense was solid and my pitching was ok. When I got to the playoffs though, I was generally crushed.

I have won 4 championships in Perfect Level with those pitchers on my staff. My team is the Yakety Yaks in OOTP 19. I use an 11 man staff with 9 of them being starters. I do not hide the LHers; they pay their way..

HiDesertAce · 03-24-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

I have won 4 championships in Perfect Level with those pitchers on my staff. My team is the Yakety Yaks in OOTP 19. I use an 11 man staff with 9 of them being starters. I do not hide the LHers; they pay their way..

can confirm yakety yaks win with LHP.

i have won with LHP as well. i needed to park adjust though to suppress RH batters.

the one lefty card I could never get to work well was 86 keuchel and I suspect it was because my only elite defender was at ss

petdawg · 03-24-2019, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateAverageGuy

What the hell fun would the games be if every 100 rated guy was lights out every time? I mean seriously people

It is not a matter of the a 100 pitcher being lights out every time, but when a 100 Randy Johnson in a Prefect league is in the high fives with his ERA every season that is a problem. I know any player is going to have good and bad years, but seeing some of these pitchers with 100 ratings pitch like a silver level pitcher over the course of multiple seasons is pretty bad.

I must admit, I never considered changing the configuration of my ball park if my starters are LHP heavy.

Kushiel · 03-24-2019, 03:14 PM

There are oodles of strategy available to you in PT.

daves · 03-24-2019, 08:30 PM

Randy Johnson crushed in Perfects? Sometimes yes, Some times no.

He just went 23-2 in the 401 Perfect for me.

HiDesertAce · 03-25-2019, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petdawg

It is not a matter of the a 100 pitcher being lights out every time, but when a 100 Randy Johnson in a Prefect league is in the high fives with his ERA every season that is a problem. I know any player is going to have good and bad years, but seeing some of these pitchers with 100 ratings pitch like a silver level pitcher over the course of multiple seasons is pretty bad.

I must admit, I never considered changing the configuration of my ball park if my starters are LHP heavy.

if you use Randy Johnson you must have a catcher with high ability rating. otherwise it becomes a carousel of walks.

Neezer · 03-25-2019, 04:53 PM

All I can tell you is I learned the very hard way that the Overall (OVR) rating of a card does not mean much. And Im a F2P player, so my PP is extremely hard to get and I wasted it when the 100 OVR cards finally were at a price I could afford. I eventually quit the AH and just decided to go with packs. Oddly I did finally pull some 100s but they were the DeGroms and Thors that were "ok" like you say. Best thing was you could get another 20 packs from them. But unless I am extremely lucky and get any of the good 100 historical and Diamonds Ill never see a Perfect League. In my entry pool, mid way through there was a team that already had a complete team of 100s and Diamonds. Their W/L record was absurd....like 10 losses overall.

Mormo · 03-26-2019, 01:46 AM

I only made it to diamond in 19 but I just stick with stuff. Every league is different. Sometimes your high movement pitchers are good sometimes your high control pitchers are good, depending on the competition, but high stuff is consistent. Personally, I find pitchers with low control are generally always bad. I find with Verlander or Scherzer they give up mostly solo HRs and I just max out intentional walks and pitch around so they don't get crushed so much. However Kershaw is hot garbage, probably because lefty, but Corbin somehow is better than all of the above some years.

This game is just too RNG to have a confident strategy. The biggest RNG is what your opponents will use in terms of LH/RH and eye vs power.

Also, defense helps the pitchers' numbers a lot. Most 100 batters I've seen are not good fielders at all. Just my two cents.

03-23-2019, 11:59 PM	#4
Hawks 27 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Cincinnati/Chicago Posts: 90	Having the same experience with the live Syndergaard card. Pure speculation on my part, but I think the overall rating is misleading. Historical cards (with a couple exceptions) perform better for me. If I had to guess, devs setup historical cards with some sort of "x" factor in the background that leads to better performances than live cards of equal or higher overall rating. It annoyed me at first but now I kinda like searching for older guys. Mixing old and current cards spices things up for me. Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk __________________

03-24-2019, 06:00 AM	#7
Dogberry99 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 1,328	In addition to having a very small sample size to pull from, it is unlikely that the entry leagues currently running will be truly representative of any one specific level of play. There is too much diversity in team builds (or lack thereof) right now. __________________ "And, Masters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an [censored]." (Much Ado About Nothing 5.1.255-256) Primary Team Collection Rewards (Cards & Packs) F2P Theme Team Movers F2P Theme and Adam Schlesinger Memorial Team

03-24-2019, 07:44 AM	#8
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,697	I think until all levels are operating, we will not know anything in XX. My team wins in PT 19 with movement. I also carry 4 LH starters there: 100 Randy, 100 Sale, 96 Kershaw, and 86 Keuchel. But, I use them strategically. Nothing is written in stone even when we have good analytics coming in. In a month we will be having better samples. __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

03-24-2019, 12:57 PM	#11
Hawks 27 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Cincinnati/Chicago Posts: 90	That's a fair point. There should definitely be strategy beyond assembling all the perfect cards you can. __________________

03-24-2019, 03:14 PM	#15
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,697	There are oodles of strategy available to you in PT. __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

03-23-2019, 09:29 PM	#1
petdawg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 47	Starting Pitching Discussion Hi All, I know it is early, but I wanted to start the discussion on starting pitching. I know a lot of people including myself were not all that impressed with how starting pitchers did the higher league level you achieved. I am still seeing historical cards, 97 Pedro Martinez and 97 Seaver seem to be out performing modern cards like 100 Syndergaard, 100 Sale, 98 Scherzer. In fact Syndergaard has been getting shelled after several starts with an ERA over 6. It still seems control is by far the most important stat unless you have a stuff rating over 100. My 98 Corey Kluber with his 87 control is pitching lights out. 100 deGrom and 99 Verlander are pitching ok at best My 100 Chris Sale was not pitching well either, but as we all know with last season's Perfect Team, left handed starters are not worth it. Watching my 100 Randy Johnson go from winning multiple MVP awards to getting crushed in Perfect level leagues really sucked. I noticed on the AH almost no one will even touch a 100 Randy Johnson as there was six of them on the AH earlier. Just curios what other people are seeing and their feedback. Last edited by petdawg; 03-23-2019 at 09:46 PM.

03-23-2019, 11:11 PM	#2
HiDesertAce Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 315	i think its very early to make judgements about which cards will perform at each level. i almost bought one of the randy johnson's because i think ppl are overreacting and i think a perfect RJ for 50 K is about half the price it will end up at. i think we will need several weeks of data before any judgements can be made about lefty pitchers and whether or not they can be effective. I think that MOV is actually very important. if the ball doesn't move the better hitters are going to light them up like a pinball machine.

03-23-2019, 11:45 PM	#3
petdawg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 47	I agree it is early and I am just looking for patterns compared to last year. It does bother me when a 100 Syndergaard and a 100 Sale are getting lit up by bronze and silver hitters like a Christmas tree. It may correct itself just like it could happen in a real baseball season, but it is worth keeping an eye on.

03-24-2019, 01:49 AM	#6
petdawg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 47	I read all those analysis as well. Personally, I found my best success with starters that had stuff 105+ with around 80 control or better. Also historical cards were way better over live and RHP much better than LHP. I tried a ton of combinations, including some with high movement, but had mixed results. I thought I read somewhere that they were going to try and even out the live pitching cards wth the historic ones, but maybe I am mistaken. I am not in front of my computer, but it seemed for example that the 100 Snydergaard was like upper 90s for stuff and in the mid 70s for movement and control. I would think he would be a pretty good pitcher, especially in the entry pool. I know five people that have that card and he is either in the bullpen or off the active roster on all of them. Imagine his stat line in a Perfect league. I do find all of this very interesting and love the feedback. When I finally get to the perfect leagues, I would love to have some starters that might have an ERA under four.

03-24-2019, 11:44 AM	#9
petdawg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 47	I am curious, did you win any championships with all those LHP? I would make the playoffs almost every year in the Perfect leagues, but was never a #1 or even a #2 seed. My offense was solid and my pitching was ok. When I got to the playoffs though, I was generally crushed.

03-24-2019, 12:28 PM	#10
UltimateAverageGuy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 579	What the hell fun would the games be if every 100 rated guy was lights out every time? I mean seriously people

03-24-2019, 08:30 PM	#16
daves Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,635	Randy Johnson crushed in Perfects? Sometimes yes, Some times no. He just went 23-2 in the 401 Perfect for me. Attached Images __________________

03-25-2019, 04:53 PM	#18
Neezer Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 115	All I can tell you is I learned the very hard way that the Overall (OVR) rating of a card does not mean much. And Im a F2P player, so my PP is extremely hard to get and I wasted it when the 100 OVR cards finally were at a price I could afford. I eventually quit the AH and just decided to go with packs. Oddly I did finally pull some 100s but they were the DeGroms and Thors that were "ok" like you say. Best thing was you could get another 20 packs from them. But unless I am extremely lucky and get any of the good 100 historical and Diamonds Ill never see a Perfect League. In my entry pool, mid way through there was a team that already had a complete team of 100s and Diamonds. Their W/L record was absurd....like 10 losses overall. Last edited by Neezer; 03-25-2019 at 04:54 PM.

03-26-2019, 01:46 AM	#19
Mormo Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 55	I only made it to diamond in 19 but I just stick with stuff. Every league is different. Sometimes your high movement pitchers are good sometimes your high control pitchers are good, depending on the competition, but high stuff is consistent. Personally, I find pitchers with low control are generally always bad. I find with Verlander or Scherzer they give up mostly solo HRs and I just max out intentional walks and pitch around so they don't get crushed so much. However Kershaw is hot garbage, probably because lefty, but Corbin somehow is better than all of the above some years. This game is just too RNG to have a confident strategy. The biggest RNG is what your opponents will use in terms of LH/RH and eye vs power. Also, defense helps the pitchers' numbers a lot. Most 100 batters I've seen are not good fielders at all. Just my two cents. Last edited by Mormo; 03-26-2019 at 06:34 AM.