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OOTP 15 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 07-02-2014, 01:57 AM   #1
PeterCorless
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1871 start weirdness

So... I try to start my games in 1871, and I get all sorts of weirdness.

Now, I understand that I only get a limited number of players compared to the modern day's 25/40 rosters. I expected 11 folks.

So I wondered what that did to pitching rotations and exhaustion of pitchers, and, of course, to fielding, since you likely didn't have everyone on your roster at their best position.

Yet this was part of the proto "Deadball Era" -- baseballs did not have cork in them, and you'd use the same ball through the whole game. So I thought there would be a lot of strikeouts, and few runs scored.

I did not expect to have high scoring games.

But... Oddly, after going through the draft, I was seeing games with incredibly high error counts and runs scored. Apparently no AI manager was able to draft a team who could field. (I was probably lucky because I nabbed about a complete mix of fielders...)

Even with a "mostly complete" roster of fielders, there were games I was playing where scores would be 40-22, or 22-20, or 36-12. The scores looked more like football than baseball scores.

It made me wonder if the game's engine couldn't really adapt for this early era of baseball. Whether my pitchers were going to be perenially "blown" even at the start of games because of a lack of rest/rotation. Whether fielding would always resemble Keystone Kop comedies.

Anyone else see these kinds of results, or am I doing something wrong?
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:55 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by PeterCorless View Post
So... I try to start my games in 1871, and I get all sorts of weirdness.

Now, I understand that I only get a limited number of players compared to the modern day's 25/40 rosters. I expected 11 folks.

So I wondered what that did to pitching rotations and exhaustion of pitchers, and, of course, to fielding, since you likely didn't have everyone on your roster at their best position.

Yet this was part of the proto "Deadball Era" -- baseballs did not have cork in them, and you'd use the same ball through the whole game. So I thought there would be a lot of strikeouts, and few runs scored.

I did not expect to have high scoring games.

But... Oddly, after going through the draft, I was seeing games with incredibly high error counts and runs scored. Apparently no AI manager was able to draft a team who could field. (I was probably lucky because I nabbed about a complete mix of fielders...)

Even with a "mostly complete" roster of fielders, there were games I was playing where scores would be 40-22, or 22-20, or 36-12. The scores looked more like football than baseball scores.

It made me wonder if the game's engine couldn't really adapt for this early era of baseball. Whether my pitchers were going to be perenially "blown" even at the start of games because of a lack of rest/rotation. Whether fielding would always resemble Keystone Kop comedies.

Anyone else see these kinds of results, or am I doing something wrong?
The MLB/National Association record for errors ina game is something like 71 combined. So seeing tons of errors which lead to high scoring games is common., i had one game that was 41-38 with 56 total errors. Deadball era is actually 1901-1920.

They all used the same glove back then which is nothing like modern gloves. they left the glove on the field for the guy from the other team to use.
most of the Sp in OOTP have Stuff of 4 or worse but have Stamina of 10 (1-10 scale). so they will be able to throw 150+ pitches easily. I had Bobby Mathews throw 221 in a 14 inning game.
so you are doing nothing wrong
check out the runs scored per game in 1871 compared to 2013 MLB.
1871 National Association Season Summary - Baseball-Reference.com
2013 Major League Baseball Season Summary - Baseball-Reference.com
1871 avg 10.3 the 2013 Dbacks avg 4.22
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Old 07-02-2014, 12:44 PM   #3
PeterCorless
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Huhn... go figure

Okay... So I'm not doing anything "wrong."

What you say makes sense. Looking at some of the historical games, there were some crazy historical results.

I think I'll try to start from a later date then. Because this just seems a bit too restrictive (in terms of rosters) and utterly random for my tastes.

(p.s. I knew that the "Deadball Era" was later... that's why I called this the "proto" Deadball era.)
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:52 PM   #4
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Some players didn't use a glove. But it doesn't matter if the ball was clean, gloves they used, different strike rules. A hit is a hit and strikeout is strikeout. The game don't care how Cap Anson got his hits in regard to baseball rules, all it cares about is how many hits and which were singles, doubles etc.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:53 PM   #5
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Deadball era is actually 1901-1920.
"Dead ball" isn't a term that was invented after the turn of the century. It was the term used to describe a type of baseball that had been "deadened" in order to keep it from being hit very far (useful if you only have one ball and don't want to lose it). By extension, the term came to be used for the rubber-centered ball that preceded the introduction of the cork-centered ball in 1910.

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Old 07-03-2014, 05:13 PM   #6
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But I think most people think of the early 20th century when they think of dead ball era.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:49 PM   #7
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But I think most people think of the early 20th century when they think of dead ball era.
That's probably true, but that has more to do with the general lack of knowledge of 19th century baseball than anything else. "Deadball baseball" refers to a style of play more than to a type of ball, and in that respect the game wasn't all that different between the "pre-modern" era and the "deadball" era. After all, the "dead ball" itself was replaced in 1910, yet "deadball baseball" continued for another decade until teams adapted to a new style of play.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:06 PM   #8
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Yes but still most everyone thinks of deadball era as 1900-1919 because it was in the modern era of baseball. 19th Century baseball had different rules and it was evolving. If you go to Wikipedia or Google the common answer is gonna be from 1900-1919.
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Old 07-10-2014, 04:07 PM   #9
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The MLB/National Association record for errors ina game is something like 71 combined. So seeing tons of errors which lead to high scoring games is common., i had one game that was 41-38 with 56 total errors. Deadball era is actually 1901-1920.

They all used the same glove back then which is nothing like modern gloves. they left the glove on the field for the guy from the other team to use.
No there were few gloves in 1871. That is a huge reason for all the errors and you check box scores you will see OOTP is correct here as stated. A catcher was the first to use a glove and it was not a baseball glove like today but more like a standard cold weather glove with the fingers cut out. It really wasn't until the 1890's gloves were worn by almost everyone. By 1895 Bid McPhee the last gloveless player finally wore a glove.

Baseball glove - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Fascinating History Of The Baseball Glove | ThePostGame
"He wanted it to be surreptitious use because it was thought unmanly to not catch with bare hands," Thorn says. "Cricket players did not use gloves, so baseball players ought not to. That was the thinking in the 1870s."

The engine also catches the nuances of the different rules of the days. A ball could land fair anywhere, go into foul territory, and be fair. A pitcher had to release the ball at or below the waist making baseball up to 1890 more like softball today. The pitcher was merely there to put the ball in play not strike people out. It isn't until 1890 that the rules of the game become more like today's game. That is when overhanded pitching is allowed and the mound is moved back. The modern pitcher was born then. Everyone wore some sort of glove by 1895 but the webbed glove would not come into play until the 1920's. 1B and C were allowed to wear oversized glove in 1895 but the webbed design was a long way off.

The ball was different and probably didn't have the pop of a modern ball but the lack of gloves, softball style pitching that eventually became side arm, and very different rules meant you didn't see many 1-0 games. These were high scoring affairs in those days.
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Old 07-10-2014, 04:13 PM   #10
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Yes but still most everyone thinks of deadball era as 1900-1919 because it was in the modern era of baseball. 19th Century baseball had different rules and it was evolving. If you go to Wikipedia or Google the common answer is gonna be from 1900-1919.
I think one could really say the deadball error began in the 1890's. That is when the mound was moved and pitchers started throwing overhanded and really started to become a defensive weapon rather than just a facilitator of putting the ball in play. However, as you state officially that is not modern baseball. It was the transition between the old game and the modern game. The monopoly years had a lot of elements of modern baseball but it was a transition period. Although, one could argue the definition of "modern" baseball has more to do with the formation of the AL than a real major defining point in the way the game was played. The modern rules were forged in the monopoly years and there is little difference in the play of 1900 and 1901 other than you have 2 major leagues.
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