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Old 06-10-2006, 07:34 PM   #1
MorseMoose
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Reverse Debut Year Database

I was wondering how difficult it would be for me to reverse the years of debut (1901-2005). I wanted to have guys that debuted in 2005 actually debut in 1901 and vice versa all the way down. But I don't really know how to edit a database to do that. Anyone have a tip how?

Thanks.
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Old 06-10-2006, 08:17 PM   #2
tward13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorseMoose
I was wondering how difficult it would be for me to reverse the years of debut (1901-2005). I wanted to have guys that debuted in 2005 actually debut in 1901 and vice versa all the way down. But I don't really know how to edit a database to do that. Anyone have a tip how?

Thanks.
Strange, but that's exactly what I wanted to do with 6.5 but couldn't really come up with a way to do it. Do you just need debuts or would all their seasons have to be redated?

What I wanted to do was basically have the players in reverse order, but the styles go in the real order.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:05 PM   #3
MorseMoose
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That first question is a question that I had and that is exactly what I want to do. I want to force guys like A-Rod, Roger Clemens and the like and such to play in the deadball era and guys like Walter Johnson, Ty Cobb and Ted Williams to play in the liveball era.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:10 PM   #4
Nukester
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I had started doing this with a past database, and had the master, batting, and pitching files set, but couldnt figure out how to get the fielding file set, because of the different number of records per player due to different positions in the same year. This was with a career based database though, so each player only really had one batting or pitching line. Maybe Ill take another look at it. Id be interested in something like this for sure.

My idea was to start with the current number of teams and players, but have them starting in 1903 with the deadball stats, and but have a reverse expansion (despansion, un-expansion, colapsation ?) and remove teams as the years go bye

Last edited by Nukester; 06-10-2006 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:55 PM   #5
MorseMoose
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The only thing I can think of is to set-up a formula in excel that takes the year and reverse it
add a column to each file,
put the formula from #1 into the row in the column set up in #2
then copy that column
then replace the information from the original debut year column with the new column
delete the extra column
save and play

I don't know if that would work and don't know what the formula would look like. All I can really think of for a formula would be a really long if statement...
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukester
My idea was to start with the current number of teams and players, but have them starting in 1903 with the deadball stats, and but have a reverse expansion (despansion, un-expansion, colapsation ?) and remove teams as the years go bye
The problem you'll run into (especially if you don't have minors set-up) is that players won't retire and you will have 25+ teams worth of players with only 12 teams (or whatever).
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Old 06-11-2006, 12:28 AM   #7
Nukester
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Just curious, but why wouldnt they retire ?
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Old 06-11-2006, 12:57 AM   #8
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Well they would, but with what you are doing; number of teams start to dwindle. You'll have guys that would have had average careers retire because they're isn't enough spots for them. But then...I suppose that is what you'll want .

Now thinking about it, with your way; you shouldn't run into the ficitional player until the 2005 draft. If you did it my way, you'd probably run into them earlier because you'd have 28 teams drafting the same number of guys that fit onto 12 teams.

Nevermind...ignore what I said earlier...your way makes more sense.
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Old 06-11-2006, 01:11 AM   #9
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Yeah the way I see it, as the teams dwindle down, only the best players will survive the cuts. There will be alot of deserving guys in the FA roster, but that could be a good thing
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Old 06-11-2006, 02:50 PM   #10
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This should actually be fairly simple to do with a macro in access. If I have time a bit later, I'll tackle it then.
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Old 06-11-2006, 04:07 PM   #11
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Nukester, I think that's exactly what I wanted to do.

WOuld we have enough new players entering each year? If we started with 2006 rosters in 1903, then for 1904 you'd be adding the 2005 new players? But would all those guys have been on the 2006 roster?

What I thought I'd have to do is start with 2006 rosters in 1903, then in 1904 add all players whose LAST season was 2005, etc. This way as you went back the guys that retired would be your rookies going forward. Make sense?
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Old 06-11-2006, 04:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tward13
Nukester, I think that's exactly what I wanted to do.

WOuld we have enough new players entering each year? If we started with 2006 rosters in 1903, then for 1904 you'd be adding the 2005 new players? But would all those guys have been on the 2006 roster?

What I thought I'd have to do is start with 2006 rosters in 1903, then in 1904 add all players whose LAST season was 2005, etc. This way as you went back the guys that retired would be your rookies going forward. Make sense?
Yeah I think thats the way I was doing it on the old database I was playing with. I basically decided to use the years 1903-2005 (or maybe it was 2004 since I was working on this a couple of years ago I think). I used 1952 as a "pivot year" so the years would look like this:

1903 = 2005
1904 = 2004
1905 = 2003
.
.
.
1950 = 1954
1951 = 1953
1952 = 1952
1953 = 1951
.
.
.
2003 = 1905
2004 = 1904
2005 = 1903
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:19 PM   #13
SandMan
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The easiest formula would be to take the half way point 1903-2005 would be 103 years so the mid point is 1954. The formula would simply be 1954 + (1954-Y) this works if the year is less than or greater than 1954. Example:

the year in database is 1903 1954 + (1954-1903) = 2005

The year is 2005 1954 + (1954-2005) = 1903

In excel the column formula would simply be =Sum(MIDpoint + (Midpoint - A1)). The A! is simply the cell that contains debut year. Simply define Midpoint as a variable as the midpoint year. I would not hard code this because you may want to change the start and end year in a future date.....
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:09 PM   #14
tward13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandMan
The easiest formula would be to take the half way point 1903-2005 would be 103 years so the mid point is 1954. The formula would simply be 1954 + (1954-Y) this works if the year is less than or greater than 1954. Example:

the year in database is 1903 1954 + (1954-1903) = 2005

The year is 2005 1954 + (1954-2005) = 1903

In excel the column formula would simply be =Sum(MIDpoint + (Midpoint - A1)). The A! is simply the cell that contains debut year. Simply define Midpoint as a variable as the midpoint year. I would not hard code this because you may want to change the start and end year in a future date.....
That gets the correct debut year, but what to do about the rest of the players career so that ratings based on remaining career work?

If a players last season was 2005 then he would debut in 1903, but his career path that should determine his ratings actually should start with his real debut year.

For example a player in real life debuts in 1990 and finishes in 2005. For the purpose of this database he ended in 2005 so his debut is 1903, however when determinig his "remaining career" to determine his ratings/talents 1990 = 1903, 1991 = 1904, 1902 = 1905, etc. for THAT player. For another player who ended in 2005 but debuted (IRL) in 2000, then 2000 = 1903, etc.

It almost has to be a player by player renu bering of their annual stats.
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:47 PM   #15
SandMan
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It is done by using the formula (Year -((Rookie Year -1954)*2)) on the yearly batting, pitching and fielding stats. The first year (rookie) would give you the base year, each year after will be increased by one.....


Example Rookie Year = 2005 first record is 2005 2005-102 =1903. This player would debut in 1903.

If a players rookie year was 2000 and he had records through 2005 then the following results occur.

Actual Year of first record: 2000
Formula: 2000-92 = 1908

Subsequent years: 2001-92 = 1909

and so on.....


By reversing the debut years to though the first group of players you bring into the league will have no career records. Also they will not fill all the rosters.

Now if you are trying to get all players that were active in 2005 and have them start in 1903 then it is a process that is a bit different, remember that the next year (1904) would only bring in players that retired in 2004 and so forth. This is more of a challenge, and the original post wanted players that DEBUT in 2005 to start in reverse order.... My formulas will work for that, but there will not be many players in the inaugural draft pool (just 2005 rookies) .

To get the players the retired players (other than the players you need for the inaugural draft) you need to get the last year of record and subtract the debut year from the master csv and then take this value and add it the batting, pitching and fielding stats after you do the above calcs. Example:


Player active in 2005, act as though 2005 was debut to have his career start in 1903. using the calcs here but not the calcs used in the first post I did.

2005- 102 = 1903 but now we add 2005= actual debut (lets use 2000 as the example) we now have 1903 + (2005-2000) = 1908. Which will actually be his Last Year in the league.

How does this get him to debut in 1903, simple each of his records would then be 2004 -102= 1902 + 5 = 1907 and etc down to the 2000-102 =1898 +5 would get you your 1903 debut.

HOpe this helps.........

It is rather easy when you logically look at it......the two examples above will work if you want to bring in 2005 rookies and have them debut in 1903 or if you want to bring in the players that retired and reverse the order for their debut....

Last edited by SandMan; 06-11-2006 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:19 PM   #16
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I'm not sure exactly what I want. I don't know what would work.

I just want guys that are playing now to play in 1901/2/3 (or whatever) and vice versa.
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