So - Babe Ruth

OzzieFan · 04-13-2016, 10:38 PM

I started in 1901 and simmed up to 1919. Red Sox still using Babe Ruth... as a below average pitcher... when his hitting ratings are completely out of the park.

So. Is the AI just stupid and wont try him at 1B or LF and just plays him as a crappy pitcher forever?

Or do I have to go in and edit to give a 1B or LF rating.

NOTE: I am using OOTP development engine without recalc.

BaseballMan · 04-13-2016, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzzieFan

I started in 1901 and simmed up to 1919. Red Sox still using Babe Ruth... as a below average pitcher... when his hitting ratings are completely out of the park.

So. Is the AI just stupid and wont try him at 1B or LF and just plays him as a crappy pitcher forever?

Or do I have to go in and edit to give a 1B or LF rating.

NOTE: I am using OOTP development engine without recalc.

You need to turn recalculate on. You can even turn on real transactions and have him traded to the Yankees automatically. With recall off it depends more on how he develops in the game.

OzzieFan · 04-13-2016, 10:46 PM

Yes I understand that would have it happen like real life. My question is really. Why would the AI not try to force this guy into the lineup. It makes zero sense to keep playing him at a really crappy reliever when he would dominate in the field.

I would hope OOTP AI managers would be able to figure that out.

My intention is to create a fictional history 1901 - 2015 to start with... and this one is just shocking me.

Big Train · 04-13-2016, 11:36 PM

I know in OOTP 16 I had to edit a few players in my 19th century sim because the AI wasn't smart enough to realize that they were better as batters than crappy relief pitchers (in an era where relief pitchers aren't that useful in the first place). Could be the same problem you are having getting the AI to make the best use of the Babe.

Would be a nice improvement to get the AI to evaluate these guys with both hitting and pitching ability better.

kq76 · 04-14-2016, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzzieFan

I started in 1901 and simmed up to 1919. Red Sox still using Babe Ruth... as a below average pitcher... when his hitting ratings are completely out of the park.

So. Is the AI just stupid and wont try him at 1B or LF and just plays him as a crappy pitcher forever?

Or do I have to go in and edit to give a 1B or LF rating.

NOTE: I am using OOTP development engine without recalc.

It's funny, when I read your post I thought to myself, "wasn't the Babe's primary position not LF, but RF?". Then I looked it up and, while he did play RF more than any other position, he played both fairly evenly and he even played some CF and, predictably, some 1B. Heh, you think you know a guy...

I guess you said LF instead of RF because he didn't play the latter until he played for the Yankees.

BaseballMan · 04-14-2016, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzzieFan

Yes I understand that would have it happen like real life. My question is really. Why would the AI not try to force this guy into the lineup. It makes zero sense to keep playing him at a really crappy reliever when he would dominate in the field.

I would hope OOTP AI managers would be able to figure that out.

My intention is to create a fictional history 1901 - 2015 to start with... and this one is just shocking me.

I don't think the AI knows that with regard recall off. It probably sees Ruth pitching a lot early and thinks it's best to keep him there. If you were a manager in 1914 would you have made Ruth a outfielder with the way the game was played back then? Maybe if the game could reevaluate his development based on his real stats. But then that's not true development. If I turn recal off then I just consider all bets off. A player may be given abilities base on his real career but he may never develop or use them.

David Watts · 04-14-2016, 08:36 AM

Give him a rating in the field and the AI will start using him that way. At least it did a few versions back when I did a non recalc replay. Just a heads up to avoid future headaches. You may want to check and see what you have "base pitcher stamina on" set to. I would recommend using "entire career." Otherwise, you are going to be just as upset when you see guys like Curt Schilling, Pedro Martinez, Nolan Ryan etc pitch as relievers their entire careers.

David Watts · 04-14-2016, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Train

I know in OOTP 16 I had to edit a few players in my 19th century sim because the AI wasn't smart enough to realize that they were better as batters than crappy relief pitchers (in an era where relief pitchers aren't that useful in the first place). Could be the same problem you are having getting the AI to make the best use of the Babe.

Would be a nice improvement to get the AI to evaluate these guys with both hitting and pitching ability better.

And then you would have folks complaining that they did a replay and AI used Babe Ruth as a hitter his entire career.

swampdragon · 04-14-2016, 09:04 AM

Read some Sporting News for spring training of 1919. The AI back then didn't want him in the outfield, either. He had to do some serious agitating to get Ed Barrow to play him there on the days when he wasn't pitching. It wasn't until after he broke the home run record in 1919 that he became a full time position player.

Painmantle · 04-14-2016, 10:35 AM

I have never had this experience with Ruth, and I have probably played with the guy as much or more than anyone else who plays OOTP. Historically speaking Ruth played both ways in 1919 Pitching in 17 games with 15 Starts and 111 games in LF (5 at 1B) OOTP, in my experience,is incapable of duplicating a player in a dual role. It is my guess that very soon Ruth will see full time use as an offensive player.

David Watts · 04-14-2016, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painmantle

I have never had this experience with Ruth, and I have probably played with the guy as much or more than anyone else who plays OOTP. Historically speaking Ruth played both ways in 1919 Pitching in 17 games with 15 Starts and 111 games in LF (5 at 1B) OOTP, in my experience,is incapable of duplicating a player in a dual role. It is my guess that very soon Ruth will see full time use as an offensive player.

In the non recalc replay I did a few versions back, he was still pitching in 1921 and was not used at all in the field. Once I changed him to an outfielder, the AI never pitched him again.

Painmantle · 04-14-2016, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

In the non recalc replay I did a few versions back, he was still pitching in 1921 and was not used at all in the field. Once I changed him to an outfielder, the AI never pitched him again.

Well I never play recalc and for me, the AI wouldn't pitch him (Even when I wanted them to) and kept changing him to either an OF or 1B and using him in the field. So I guess it all depends on how the OOTP Gods see him in any individual set of league files. I rarely ever play out my games in a league (Normally), but I find it the only way to really get Ruth used the way I want him used is to not let the AI control it. But I'm a big fan of Ruth playing both way for as many seasons as possible

David Watts · 04-14-2016, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painmantle

Well I never play recalc and for me, the AI wouldn't pitch him (Even when I wanted them to) and kept changing him to either an OF or 1B and using him in the field. So I guess it all depends on how the OOTP Gods see him in any individual set of league files. I rarely ever play out my games in a league (Normally), but I find it the only way to really get Ruth used the way I want him used is to not let the AI control it. But I'm a big fan of Ruth playing both way for as many seasons as possible

So very strange isn't it? I'm guessing based the few times I fired up 1919 with 17 that Ruth would be an outfielder with recalc off....I know he is with it on.

slic1149 · 04-14-2016, 01:59 PM

I am curious, has anyone tried to keep Ruth as a pitcher for his entire career? Obviously it would take considerable micro-managing, but I wonder how things would turn out.

David Watts · 04-14-2016, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slic1149

I am curious, has anyone tried to keep Ruth as a pitcher for his entire career? Obviously it would take considerable micro-managing, but I wonder how things would turn out.

I think Painmantle did a dynasty report in which he kept Ruth as a 2 way player. I'm pretty sure it was him that did it. Can't remember how many seasons he played, but remember following it for awhile.

Painmantle · 04-14-2016, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slic1149

I am curious, has anyone tried to keep Ruth as a pitcher for his entire career? Obviously it would take considerable micro-managing, but I wonder how things would turn out.

I made it all the way to Sept 1923 and then lost my files during the great computer crash'/switch to Win 10. Thought I had a backup on disk and it turned out I didn't.

I am seriously considering another dynasty where I bring Ruth in in 1911 as a Free Agent and Manage him where ever he signs, in a few test he still isn't ready for Full Time ML work until about 1914. But it is fun to watch him develop from day 1.

And yes it takes some serious micro-managing and playing all your games out. Which I believe is what made that Dynasty so Popular, it was something different

The link to the Dynasty is in my signature

The Game · 04-15-2016, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slic1149

I am curious, has anyone tried to keep Ruth as a pitcher for his entire career? Obviously it would take considerable micro-managing, but I wonder how things would turn out.

I tried for a bit but the prospect of seeing what he would do as a hitter made me switch him to an OF.
I imported Ruth in 1920 as a P and turned him into a hitter at age 30. He then hit 1121 HR. OOTP does not know how to handle 2 way players properly.
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3992413

slic1149 · 04-15-2016, 05:46 PM

I may be angering the baseball gods, but I handle the Ruth issue by never starting a league before 1920. It helps that I am not terribly interested in dead ball baseball. I am considering starting a deadball league and just letting the game sim the Ruth pitcher/hitter conundrum.

brewdog · 04-15-2016, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzzieFan

It makes zero sense to keep playing him at a really crappy reliever when he would dominate in the field.

Crappy Reliever??? He was a darn good Starting Pitcher before being moved to the lineup. The real problem is the way OOTP imports pitchers. I'm constantly having to pump up stamina on pitchers that I know were starters. OOTP importing algorithms really need to be repaired in this regard IMHO.

OzzieFan · 04-16-2016, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewdog

Crappy Reliever??? He was a darn good Starting Pitcher before being moved to the lineup. The real problem is the way OOTP imports pitchers. I'm constantly having to pump up stamina on pitchers that I know were starters. OOTP importing algorithms really need to be repaired in this regard IMHO.

Im not talking about real life. In my game Boston has made trades... and their starting rotation is pretty much great. Ruth isn't good enough to be anything but a very mediocre relief pitcher.

04-13-2016, 10:38 PM	#1
OzzieFan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 234	So - Babe Ruth I started in 1901 and simmed up to 1919. Red Sox still using Babe Ruth... as a below average pitcher... when his hitting ratings are completely out of the park. So. Is the AI just stupid and wont try him at 1B or LF and just plays him as a crappy pitcher forever? Or do I have to go in and edit to give a 1B or LF rating. NOTE: I am using OOTP development engine without recalc.

04-14-2016, 09:04 AM	#9
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	Read some Sporting News for spring training of 1919. The AI back then didn't want him in the outfield, either. He had to do some serious agitating to get Ed Barrow to play him there on the days when he wasn't pitching. It wasn't until after he broke the home run record in 1919 that he became a full time position player. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

04-14-2016, 10:35 AM	#10
Painmantle Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greenfield ,IN Posts: 3,053	I have never had this experience with Ruth, and I have probably played with the guy as much or more than anyone else who plays OOTP. Historically speaking Ruth played both ways in 1919 Pitching in 17 games with 15 Starts and 111 games in LF (5 at 1B) OOTP, in my experience,is incapable of duplicating a player in a dual role. It is my guess that very soon Ruth will see full time use as an offensive player. __________________ “As soon as I got out there I felt a strange relationship with the pitcher's mound. It was as if I'd been born out there. Pitching just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Striking out batters was easy.” -Babe Ruth “Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star.”-Tris Speaker My Dynasties The Beantown Bambino

04-14-2016, 01:59 PM	#14
slic1149 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 343	I am curious, has anyone tried to keep Ruth as a pitcher for his entire career? Obviously it would take considerable micro-managing, but I wonder how things would turn out. __________________ To laugh often and love much, to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to give one's self, this is to have succeeded. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

04-15-2016, 05:46 PM	#18
slic1149 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 343	I may be angering the baseball gods, but I handle the Ruth issue by never starting a league before 1920. It helps that I am not terribly interested in dead ball baseball. I am considering starting a deadball league and just letting the game sim the Ruth pitcher/hitter conundrum. __________________ To laugh often and love much, to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to give one's self, this is to have succeeded. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

04-13-2016, 10:46 PM	#3
OzzieFan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 234	Yes I understand that would have it happen like real life. My question is really. Why would the AI not try to force this guy into the lineup. It makes zero sense to keep playing him at a really crappy reliever when he would dominate in the field. I would hope OOTP AI managers would be able to figure that out. My intention is to create a fictional history 1901 - 2015 to start with... and this one is just shocking me.

04-13-2016, 11:36 PM	#4
Big Train Major Leagues Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 401	I know in OOTP 16 I had to edit a few players in my 19th century sim because the AI wasn't smart enough to realize that they were better as batters than crappy relief pitchers (in an era where relief pitchers aren't that useful in the first place). Could be the same problem you are having getting the AI to make the best use of the Babe. Would be a nice improvement to get the AI to evaluate these guys with both hitting and pitching ability better.

04-14-2016, 08:36 AM	#7
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 8,865	Give him a rating in the field and the AI will start using him that way. At least it did a few versions back when I did a non recalc replay. Just a heads up to avoid future headaches. You may want to check and see what you have "base pitcher stamina on" set to. I would recommend using "entire career." Otherwise, you are going to be just as upset when you see guys like Curt Schilling, Pedro Martinez, Nolan Ryan etc pitch as relievers their entire careers.