Has anyone ran across a catcher who could play MIF or CF?

SkoCubs · 11-20-2019, 09:13 PM

Essentially Craig Biggio. Swear I’ve never ran across one in my sims, granted I’m not filtering each draft pool for OF/IF range for those who can also catch

Dyzalot · 11-20-2019, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkoCubs

Essentially Craig Biggio. Swear I’ve never ran across one in my sims, granted I’m not filtering each draft pool for OF/IF range for those who can also catch

Yes I have although not usually at an elite level like Biggio or Dale Murphy. But I do often see catchers who have infield and outfield ratings that are good enough to start at the four corner positions or even act as a utility bench guy somewhat similar to how the Red Sox tried to use Blake Swihart.

ezpkns34 · 11-21-2019, 04:58 PM

There's a few in the "out of the box" MLB game:
* Austin Bernard
* Drew Hamrock
* Jake Hirabayashi
* Isiah Kiner-Falefa
* Josh Morgan
* Austin Nola
* Connor Wong
* Carter Young

Don't know about being as good of hitters as Biggio, but they have good OF, IF & C ratings

24Rocks · 11-21-2019, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Yes I have although not usually at an elite level like Biggio or Dale Murphy. But I do often see catchers who have infield and outfield ratings that are good enough to start at the four corner positions or even act as a utility bench guy somewhat similar to how the Red Sox tried to use Blake Swihart.

Ya its usually they are just passable or plain bad they almost never have the Range. This is a guy from my Online league who with the abundance of C in my league had to put him at 2nd.

CBeisbol · 11-21-2019, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24Rocks

Ya its usually they are just passable or plain bad they almost never have the Range. This is a guy from my Online league who with the abundance of C in my league had to put him at 2nd.

Yikes

What were his defensive stats in 2045?

24Rocks · 11-21-2019, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbeisbol

yikes

what were his defensive stats in 2045?

really bad

SkoCubs · 11-21-2019, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24Rocks

really bad

Wow, his fielding ratings are bad but they don't seem THAT bad, certainly not -46

Dyzalot · 11-21-2019, 11:51 PM

As bad as he was in 2046, he made quite the improvement from the year before.

And yeah, I've tended to have my best luck converting good hitting catchers to third or first base. Once in a while I find a capable guy who can be a utility/ph/3rd catcher type which is a nice luxury. Usually though for that to work, you need to micro-manage them in the minors to develop the positions they have potential at but little or no experience.

SkoCubs · 11-21-2019, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

As bad as he was in 2046, he made quite the improvement from the year before.

And yeah, I've tended to have my best luck converting good hitting catchers to third or first base. Once in a while I find a capable guy who can be a utility/ph/3rd catcher type which is a nice luxury. Usually though for that to work, you need to micro-manage them in the minors to develop the positions they have potential at but little or no experience.

As a student in college currently 30% of my lectures are spent thinking about how I should start micromanaging my minor leagues to keep a prospects barely mediocre catching ability.

Never follow through

Anyone · 11-22-2019, 03:52 AM

I think the only star in real life to ever successfully make that transition is Biggio. Catchers can in real life convert to 1B or corner OF and occasionally 3B. Biggio is I think the only player in any fairly modern era to convert from C to middle infield successfully.

So it should be almost impossible to find players in OOTP who can do it, because in real life very few can.

Of course, if you want more in your league you can create your own in commissioner mode, and if you want to avoid "cheating" as in automatically putting them on your team you can make them free agents. I do that in my fictional league, import a real life player from the database or create a player I'd like to see in my league, keep him in the free agent pool, and then try to sign him if I want him.

Dyzalot · 11-22-2019, 04:31 AM

Dale Murphy also made that transition. Bryce Harper was drafted as a catcher and has transitioned to a top defensive right fielder who I assume can also play a competent center field. I expect that the more athletic young catchers, who probably are also the better hitters, get transitioned out of the position earlier than ever in order to save their legs. But back in the late '70's, Dale Murphy had over 1,000 plate appearances at catcher and first base before ever playing a MLB game in the outfield.

Anyone · 11-22-2019, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Dale Murphy also made that transition. Bryce Harper was drafted as a catcher and has transitioned to a top defensive right fielder who I assume can also play a competent center field. I expect that the more athletic young catchers, who probably are also the better hitters, get transitioned out of the position earlier than ever in order to save their legs. But back in the late '70's, Dale Murphy had over 1,000 plate appearances at catcher and first base before ever playing a MLB game in the outfield.

I said corner positions, it is done, and specifically said middle infield it isn't. Brian Downing started as a catcher but had his best years in LF, and there are many examples at corners. Almost anyone with the athletic ability to be in MLB in the first place can learn to play an acceptable 1B, including catchers, and it's not the rare for a catcher to be able to play corner OF, and there are some examples at 3B.

Dale Murphy played CF for a while, though defensive metrics show him as bad defensively there, so maybe he always should have been at a corner OF position and he was moved after a few years to RF.

But middle infield there's Craig Biggio and...no one else, pretty much. Biggio was very fast for a catcher when he came up, and that had to help him and also was as I understand it a reason for the move, so the catching position didn't destroy his speed.

Dyzalot · 11-22-2019, 08:09 AM

I know Gold Gloves can be pretty subjective but Murphy did win five straight in center field. And the OP says "MIF or CF".

Boomcoach · 11-22-2019, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Dale Murphy also made that transition. Bryce Harper was drafted as a catcher and has transitioned to a top defensive right fielder who I assume can also play a competent center field. I expect that the more athletic young catchers, who probably are also the better hitters, get transitioned out of the position earlier than ever in order to save their legs. But back in the late '70's, Dale Murphy had over 1,000 plate appearances at catcher and first base before ever playing a MLB game in the outfield.

I had no idea that Murphy started out as a catcher!

Anyone · 11-22-2019, 12:45 PM

Murphy played CF 1980-86. Only in 1980 did he have Defensive WAR that showed him as a good defensive CF (obviously he was still valuable because he hit so well) as per baseball-reference.com. After that his best defensive season was 0.2 WAR, which would charitably be average, and he had seasons as bad as -2.2 and -1.8.

I first realized he was bad defensively when he was one of the historic players I decided to bring in and throw into the free agent pool in my fictional league as the league was low on CF's, using a season from his prime. And I saw his CF rating and his OF ratings weren't so good for a CF. So I just checked baseball reference to make sure it was justified by defensive metrics and it was.

His first season in CF he was legitmately good, so he may have made a rep that stuck (as far as getting Gold Gloves), and a lot of players win a Gold Glove partially with their bat. He was an overall very good player and a very popular one, and people didn't have the defensive metrics to see he was hurting his team in the field (though definitely helping it with his bat).

In 1987 when the Braves realized his fielding in CF was costing them they moved him to RF, and his defensive WAR was good for a few years starting then (as a RFer, where maybe he always should have been playing) until he got old to the point he wasn't very good at anything anymore.

Dyzalot · 11-22-2019, 08:17 PM

Yes we can debate how good Murphy actually was defensively. However, I would argue that anyone who can win two MVPs at a position as well as several Gold Gloves, plays the position competently. Defensive metrics themselves are subjective as well. In other words, any catcher able to transition to center field, hold down the position as a starter for several years, win two MVPs as well as several Gold Gloves can be objectively said to have transitioned successfully. I don't think the OP was only talking about catchers who could become elite defenders at the "up the middle" positions. He only asked if there were other examples besides Biggio.

11-20-2019, 09:13 PM	#1
SkoCubs Minors (Single A) Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 53	Has anyone ran across a catcher who could play MIF or CF? Essentially Craig Biggio. Swear I’ve never ran across one in my sims, granted I’m not filtering each draft pool for OF/IF range for those who can also catch

11-21-2019, 04:58 PM	#3
ezpkns34 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 693	There's a few in the "out of the box" MLB game: * Austin Bernard * Drew Hamrock * Jake Hirabayashi * Isiah Kiner-Falefa * Josh Morgan * Austin Nola * Connor Wong * Carter Young Don't know about being as good of hitters as Biggio, but they have good OF, IF & C ratings

11-21-2019, 11:51 PM	#8
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	As bad as he was in 2046, he made quite the improvement from the year before. And yeah, I've tended to have my best luck converting good hitting catchers to third or first base. Once in a while I find a capable guy who can be a utility/ph/3rd catcher type which is a nice luxury. Usually though for that to work, you need to micro-manage them in the minors to develop the positions they have potential at but little or no experience.

11-22-2019, 03:52 AM	#10
Anyone Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 405	I think the only star in real life to ever successfully make that transition is Biggio. Catchers can in real life convert to 1B or corner OF and occasionally 3B. Biggio is I think the only player in any fairly modern era to convert from C to middle infield successfully. So it should be almost impossible to find players in OOTP who can do it, because in real life very few can. Of course, if you want more in your league you can create your own in commissioner mode, and if you want to avoid "cheating" as in automatically putting them on your team you can make them free agents. I do that in my fictional league, import a real life player from the database or create a player I'd like to see in my league, keep him in the free agent pool, and then try to sign him if I want him.

11-22-2019, 04:31 AM	#11
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	Dale Murphy also made that transition. Bryce Harper was drafted as a catcher and has transitioned to a top defensive right fielder who I assume can also play a competent center field. I expect that the more athletic young catchers, who probably are also the better hitters, get transitioned out of the position earlier than ever in order to save their legs. But back in the late '70's, Dale Murphy had over 1,000 plate appearances at catcher and first base before ever playing a MLB game in the outfield.

11-22-2019, 08:09 AM	#13
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	I know Gold Gloves can be pretty subjective but Murphy did win five straight in center field. And the OP says "MIF or CF".

11-22-2019, 12:45 PM	#15
Anyone Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 405	Murphy played CF 1980-86. Only in 1980 did he have Defensive WAR that showed him as a good defensive CF (obviously he was still valuable because he hit so well) as per baseball-reference.com. After that his best defensive season was 0.2 WAR, which would charitably be average, and he had seasons as bad as -2.2 and -1.8. I first realized he was bad defensively when he was one of the historic players I decided to bring in and throw into the free agent pool in my fictional league as the league was low on CF's, using a season from his prime. And I saw his CF rating and his OF ratings weren't so good for a CF. So I just checked baseball reference to make sure it was justified by defensive metrics and it was. His first season in CF he was legitmately good, so he may have made a rep that stuck (as far as getting Gold Gloves), and a lot of players win a Gold Glove partially with their bat. He was an overall very good player and a very popular one, and people didn't have the defensive metrics to see he was hurting his team in the field (though definitely helping it with his bat). In 1987 when the Braves realized his fielding in CF was costing them they moved him to RF, and his defensive WAR was good for a few years starting then (as a RFer, where maybe he always should have been playing) until he got old to the point he wasn't very good at anything anymore.

11-22-2019, 08:17 PM	#16
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	Yes we can debate how good Murphy actually was defensively. However, I would argue that anyone who can win two MVPs at a position as well as several Gold Gloves, plays the position competently. Defensive metrics themselves are subjective as well. In other words, any catcher able to transition to center field, hold down the position as a starter for several years, win two MVPs as well as several Gold Gloves can be objectively said to have transitioned successfully. I don't think the OP was only talking about catchers who could become elite defenders at the "up the middle" positions. He only asked if there were other examples besides Biggio.