Best Teams since 1970

jlking · 11-14-2011, 02:25 PM

I am trying to set up a Best Teams kind of a league starting with 1970 basically because I am not sure how to play the 1907 Cubs against the 1998 Yankees. The challenge is to not repeat any teams and come up with an equal number of American and National league teams roughly broken into a East/West alignment.

I am going for 8 teams in each league and need to cut a few, but this is what I have so far:

American
East
Orioles 1970
Tigers 1984
Blue Jays 1992/1993
Indians 1995
Yankees 1998
Red Sox 2004

West
Royas 1985
Athletics 1972-1974/1989
Twins 1991
Mariners 2001
Amgles 2002
White Sox 2005

National
East
Pirates 1971/1979
Mets 1986
Expos 1994
Braves 1995/1998
Marlins 2003
Philes 1980/2008

West
Reds 1975/1976
Cardinals 1982
Dodgers 1998
Diamond Backs 2001
Giants 2010

So my questions are:
1. Who did I leave out?
2. Who do I cut to get to 8 in each league?
3. Reds 1975 or 1976?
4. Which Oakland team? Can I leave out the great teams of the 70's and go with the 1989 team?
5. Boo Hays 1992 or 1993?
6. Pirates 1971 or 1979?
7. Braves 1995 or 1998?
8. Pittsburgh 1980 or 2008?

Curve Ball Dave · 11-14-2011, 07:06 PM

You've focused on World Series winners, but those are not necessarily the best teams from each franchise.

Get rid of the '08 Dodgers and replace them with the '78 version.

I would argue the '89 Giants were better than the '10 Giants.

The circa 1976-1980 Royals were easily as good as the '85 team.

To your specific questions:

I'd go with:

70's A's

'76 Reds.

'93 Jays

'79 Pirates

I don't see the '82 Brewers anywhere, or the '82 Angels who were also very good. The '94 White Sox were very good, but like the Expos were denied by the strike.

thehef · 11-14-2011, 08:22 PM

75 vs 76 Reds is a close one, but I'd go with the 75 version. Although the 76 team was a little better offensively, the 75 version had a more-stable starting staff, and a bullpen that was one the best ever (Borbon, Eastwick, McEnaney, and Carroll all had sub-3.00 ERA's and could all close). That was reflected in the 75 team having more wins (108 to 102) than the 76 team.

Agree w CB Dave on replacing the 08 Dodgers, but although 77 vs 78 Dodgers is close, I'd go with the 77 version due to Garvey, Cey, Baker, and Smith each hitting 30+ homers, and the team as whole hitting 34 more dingers than the 78 team... The 77 team fielded at a better clip, and won 3 more games, for what that's worth.

Agree with CB Dave on the Royals. That 77 team won 102 games, 11 more than the 85 champs.

Not sure about the 70 A's; they only won 89 games and missed the playoffs. The 71 A's, though, won 101 games - several more than any of that era's A's champ teams.

I would give some thought to the 71 Orioles over the 70 team only because of the four 20-game winners on the 71 team. Tough call, though.

Chicagofan76 · 11-15-2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlking

I am going for 8 teams in each league and need to cut a few, but this is what I have so far:

American
East
Tigers 1984
Blue Jays 1993
Yankees 1998
Red Sox 2004

West
Royas 1985
Athletics 1973
Twins 1991
Amgles 2002 love them Amgles!

National
East
Pirates 1979
Mets 1986
Braves 1995
Philes 1980

West
Reds 1975
Cardinals 1982
Diamond Backs 2001
Giants 2010

So my questions are:
1. Who did I leave out?
2. Who do I cut to get to 8 in each league?
3. Reds 1975 or 1976?
4. Which Oakland team? Can I leave out the great teams of the 70's and go with the 1989 team?
5. Boo Hays 1992 or 1993?
6. Pirates 1971 or 1979?
7. Braves 1995 or 1998?
8. Pittsburgh 1980 or 2008?

I redited your OP to leave out all the non World Series winners, one year wonders and the teams with multiple WS winners down to the year that in my opinion was a more memorable winner.

I personally say that 8 is too low 10 would better, that would have left my Sox in there, plus I have a certain fondness for the 1989 Cubs but the 2003 Cubs should be in there also. '73 A's had Reggie, '89 A's were on steroids.
Everyone knows what happened during the '75 WS not everyone knows much about the '76 Series. While the 92 Jays may have been better the '93 Jays were more memorable. We Are Family Pirates were more well known 71 Pirates may have been better. '98 Braves didnt win anything. I like the '80 Phils uni and they had Rose but since Rose was on the Bog Red Machine maybe 2008 would be better. But whats a Phils WS team without Schmidt?

If you do 10 you only have to leave out
AL:
Indians didnt win anything
Seattle same although both teams are great

NL:
98 Dodgers 95 would have been better
I would have also left out the 94 Expos but add the 89 or 03 Cubs.

Germaniac · 11-15-2011, 08:38 AM

I would try to work the 1982 Brewers in it somehow.

The A's in the early 70's definitely were much stronger than the 1989 version

I would go with the 1976 Reds, the 1971 Pirates and yes, definitely the 1980 Phillies with Schmidt, Carlton, etc ...

jlking · 11-15-2011, 02:09 PM

Thanks for all the input.

D'oh! I don't know how I forgot the '82 Brewers, they were on the disk of my very first baseball game. They were fun to play against, they could score a lot of runs but gave up their share too. It makes for a see-saw battle. Now that I remember, it was the '75 Reds in that game, and I have to agree with thehef, that bullpen was awesome.

I also expanded it to 20 teams so I could include a White Sox team, but I am leaning towards the 2005 team just to get a better spread of different years. The same with the Cubs. Plus it might be fun to play the 2003 Cubs against the 2005 Sox.

So here is my updated league:

American
East
Tigers 1984
Blue Jays 1993
Yankees 1998
Red Sox 2004
White Sox 2005

West
Royas 1977
Athletics 1973
Twins 1991
Amgles 2002
Brewers 1982

National
East
Pirates 1979
Mets 1986
Braves 1995
Philes 1980
Cubs 2003

West
Reds 1975
Cardinals 1982
Diamond Backs 2001
Giants 1989
Dodgers 1978

I am more than open to more suggests for fine tuning. Also, who do you think wins the WS in this league?

Chicagofan76 · 11-15-2011, 04:34 PM

i think the 98 Yanks or the '04 Sux would win good combo of pitching and offense, also depends on what you do with your modifiers...Jack Morris in '84 and '91 wouldnt be quite the same in todays game, same with most all of the pitchers prior to 1985. Will be interesting to see how much the Royals and Cardinals would run in todays game. Highest I have ever had Rickey Henderson get was 88-31, but most of those pickoffs were on my team using run & hit in 1 pitch vs stealing in pitch by pitch.

TribeFanInNC · 11-15-2011, 04:53 PM

I'm going to sound like a homer, but...

I'd say the 95 Indians (100-44) were far better than the 05 Sox or 02 Angels. Their winning pct was almost .700, one of the best marks ever. Albert Belle had 103 XBH. Jim Thome and Manny Ramirez hit sixth and seventh in that lineup. Five guys with 21+ homers, including the #8 hitter. All that in only 144 games that season. Sure, the rotation was a little weak, but the bully was great.

Unless you are really against steroid teams, I can't see leaving them out. One of the best offenses since the Big Red Machine.

Unless you are against using two A's teams (and roiders), I'd put the 89 A's before the Sox and Angels as well. Another very solid team IMO.

Chicagofan76 · 11-15-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

I'm going to sound like a homer, but...

I'd say the 95 Indians (100-44) were far better than the 05 Sox or 02 Angels. Their winning pct was almost .700, one of the best marks ever. Albert Belle had 103 XBH. Jim Thome and Manny Ramirez hit sixth and seventh in that lineup. Five guys with 21+ homers, including the #8 hitter. All that in only 144 games that season. Sure, the rotation was a little weak, but the bully was great.

Unless you are really against steroid teams, I can't see leaving them out. One of the best offenses since the Big Red Machine.

Unless you are against using two A's teams (and roiders), I'd put the 89 A's before the Sox and Angels as well. Another very solid team IMO.

Biggest difference between the '95 Tribe and the rest you named. They all won the World Series Ha!

and he already has 1 A's team why have 2? Can;t leave the 2005 White Sox out, there WS win was just as big of a deal as the 2004 Red Sox.

Germaniac · 11-15-2011, 05:47 PM

I should go with the Brewers, sure ... but I think somehow the 1975 Reds will come out on top

TribeFanInNC · 11-15-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Biggest difference between the '95 Tribe and the rest you named. They all won the World Series Ha!

I certainly can't argue that point. Totally choked.

But I still think they were one of the top 10 teams of the last 40 years. The Series can't be the only defining quality.

jlking · 11-15-2011, 10:04 PM

After 10 seasons some patterns are starting emerging.

Not surprisingly the '98 Yankees consistently are the best team in the regular season winning over 100 games, but lose in the play offs (why does that not surprise me?). The 2002 Angles were apparently one of the great teams. Boston and the Blue Jays hang tough, but the 2005 White Sox lag behind. Minnesota and Milwaukee don't deserve to be in this bunch.

The National league is pretty well balanced with the '79 Pittsburgh Pirates having the edge, but the '82 Cardinals lacking, with no post season appearances.

In case you didn't know, Tommy John and Jack Morris were great pitchers.

outrider64 · 11-16-2011, 12:37 AM

I'm curious to know what League Strategy, AI and Modifier Settings are you using.
I've been meaning to doing a similar league as yours, but haven't had the time jump into it. Thanks.

Chicagofan76 · 11-16-2011, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

I certainly can't argue that point. Totally choked.

But I still think they were one of the top 10 teams of the last 40 years. The Series can't be the only defining quality.

H2H Tribe would decimate my Sox. but with his limited amount of teams I think they should be left off vs a team that won their 1st WS since 1917. Especially when you put a team that was dead after 3 ALCS games in 2004. My Sox went 11-1 Only 2? other team have done that. 98 Yanks and i forgot who the other team was.

Charlie Hough · 11-16-2011, 06:28 PM

I think your first problem is that it should be the best teams from 1970 through the 1990s. Otherwise you leave out far too many teams to get down to 16 total and 8 in each league.

As far as I'm concerned, the 1980 Astros and 1980 Expos deserve consideration, as do the 1984 Padres. But if you're aiming for only 16 teams across 40 years, then you're hard pressed to really have a proper great teams list. It will be great teams minus a lot of other great teams.

Germaniac · 11-17-2011, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

I think your first problem is that it should be the best teams from 1970 through the 1990s. Otherwise you leave out far too many teams to get down to 16 total and 8 in each league.

As far as I'm concerned, the 1980 Astros and 1980 Expos deserve consideration, as do the 1984 Padres. But if you're aiming for only 16 teams across 40 years, then you're hard pressed to really have a proper great teams list. It will be great teams minus a lot of other great teams.

I think that's the problem with leagues like that - you simply have to keep many deserving teams out.

BTW, speaking of the Astros - I'd rather take the 1986 team than the 1980 team

Germaniac · 11-17-2011, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlking

In case you didn't know, Tommy John and Jack Morris were great pitchers.

That might be true

They may not have been the greatest pitchers as far as statistics go, but they sure knew how to win ballgames, and that's what it's all about.

11-14-2011, 02:25 PM	#1
jlking Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 85	Best Teams since 1970 I am trying to set up a Best Teams kind of a league starting with 1970 basically because I am not sure how to play the 1907 Cubs against the 1998 Yankees. The challenge is to not repeat any teams and come up with an equal number of American and National league teams roughly broken into a East/West alignment. I am going for 8 teams in each league and need to cut a few, but this is what I have so far: American East Orioles 1970 Tigers 1984 Blue Jays 1992/1993 Indians 1995 Yankees 1998 Red Sox 2004 West Royas 1985 Athletics 1972-1974/1989 Twins 1991 Mariners 2001 Amgles 2002 White Sox 2005 National East Pirates 1971/1979 Mets 1986 Expos 1994 Braves 1995/1998 Marlins 2003 Philes 1980/2008 West Reds 1975/1976 Cardinals 1982 Dodgers 1998 Diamond Backs 2001 Giants 2010 So my questions are: 1. Who did I leave out? 2. Who do I cut to get to 8 in each league? 3. Reds 1975 or 1976? 4. Which Oakland team? Can I leave out the great teams of the 70's and go with the 1989 team? 5. Boo Hays 1992 or 1993? 6. Pirates 1971 or 1979? 7. Braves 1995 or 1998? 8. Pittsburgh 1980 or 2008?

11-14-2011, 07:06 PM	#2
Curve Ball Dave Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,271	You've focused on World Series winners, but those are not necessarily the best teams from each franchise. Get rid of the '08 Dodgers and replace them with the '78 version. I would argue the '89 Giants were better than the '10 Giants. The circa 1976-1980 Royals were easily as good as the '85 team. To your specific questions: I'd go with: 70's A's '76 Reds. '93 Jays '79 Pirates I don't see the '82 Brewers anywhere, or the '82 Angels who were also very good. The '94 White Sox were very good, but like the Expos were denied by the strike. __________________ "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing"-Warren Spahn.

11-15-2011, 08:38 AM	#5
Germaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frankenthal, Germany Posts: 2,993	I would try to work the 1982 Brewers in it somehow. The A's in the early 70's definitely were much stronger than the 1989 version I would go with the 1976 Reds, the 1971 Pirates and yes, definitely the 1980 Phillies with Schmidt, Carlton, etc ... __________________ I'm going to have to meet my Maker some day. And if He asks me why I didn't let this boy play, and I say it's because he's black, that might not be a satisfactory answer. Happy Chandler, 1947

11-15-2011, 05:47 PM	#10
Germaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frankenthal, Germany Posts: 2,993	I should go with the Brewers, sure ... but I think somehow the 1975 Reds will come out on top __________________ I'm going to have to meet my Maker some day. And if He asks me why I didn't let this boy play, and I say it's because he's black, that might not be a satisfactory answer. Happy Chandler, 1947

11-14-2011, 08:22 PM	#3
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,842	75 vs 76 Reds is a close one, but I'd go with the 75 version. Although the 76 team was a little better offensively, the 75 version had a more-stable starting staff, and a bullpen that was one the best ever (Borbon, Eastwick, McEnaney, and Carroll all had sub-3.00 ERA's and could all close). That was reflected in the 75 team having more wins (108 to 102) than the 76 team. Agree w CB Dave on replacing the 08 Dodgers, but although 77 vs 78 Dodgers is close, I'd go with the 77 version due to Garvey, Cey, Baker, and Smith each hitting 30+ homers, and the team as whole hitting 34 more dingers than the 78 team... The 77 team fielded at a better clip, and won 3 more games, for what that's worth. Agree with CB Dave on the Royals. That 77 team won 102 games, 11 more than the 85 champs. Not sure about the 70 A's; they only won 89 games and missed the playoffs. The 71 A's, though, won 101 games - several more than any of that era's A's champ teams. I would give some thought to the 71 Orioles over the 70 team only because of the four 20-game winners on the 71 team. Tough call, though.

11-15-2011, 02:09 PM	#6
jlking Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 85	Thanks for all the input. D'oh! I don't know how I forgot the '82 Brewers, they were on the disk of my very first baseball game. They were fun to play against, they could score a lot of runs but gave up their share too. It makes for a see-saw battle. Now that I remember, it was the '75 Reds in that game, and I have to agree with thehef, that bullpen was awesome. I also expanded it to 20 teams so I could include a White Sox team, but I am leaning towards the 2005 team just to get a better spread of different years. The same with the Cubs. Plus it might be fun to play the 2003 Cubs against the 2005 Sox. So here is my updated league: American East Tigers 1984 Blue Jays 1993 Yankees 1998 Red Sox 2004 White Sox 2005 West Royas 1977 Athletics 1973 Twins 1991 Amgles 2002 Brewers 1982 National East Pirates 1979 Mets 1986 Braves 1995 Philes 1980 Cubs 2003 West Reds 1975 Cardinals 1982 Diamond Backs 2001 Giants 1989 Dodgers 1978 I am more than open to more suggests for fine tuning. Also, who do you think wins the WS in this league?

11-15-2011, 04:34 PM	#7
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	i think the 98 Yanks or the '04 Sux would win good combo of pitching and offense, also depends on what you do with your modifiers...Jack Morris in '84 and '91 wouldnt be quite the same in todays game, same with most all of the pitchers prior to 1985. Will be interesting to see how much the Royals and Cardinals would run in todays game. Highest I have ever had Rickey Henderson get was 88-31, but most of those pickoffs were on my team using run & hit in 1 pitch vs stealing in pitch by pitch.

11-15-2011, 04:53 PM	#8
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	I'm going to sound like a homer, but... I'd say the 95 Indians (100-44) were far better than the 05 Sox or 02 Angels. Their winning pct was almost .700, one of the best marks ever. Albert Belle had 103 XBH. Jim Thome and Manny Ramirez hit sixth and seventh in that lineup. Five guys with 21+ homers, including the #8 hitter. All that in only 144 games that season. Sure, the rotation was a little weak, but the bully was great. Unless you are really against steroid teams, I can't see leaving them out. One of the best offenses since the Big Red Machine. Unless you are against using two A's teams (and roiders), I'd put the 89 A's before the Sox and Angels as well. Another very solid team IMO. Last edited by TribeFanInNC; 11-15-2011 at 04:56 PM.

11-15-2011, 10:04 PM	#12
jlking Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 85	After 10 seasons some patterns are starting emerging. Not surprisingly the '98 Yankees consistently are the best team in the regular season winning over 100 games, but lose in the play offs (why does that not surprise me?). The 2002 Angles were apparently one of the great teams. Boston and the Blue Jays hang tough, but the 2005 White Sox lag behind. Minnesota and Milwaukee don't deserve to be in this bunch. The National league is pretty well balanced with the '79 Pittsburgh Pirates having the edge, but the '82 Cardinals lacking, with no post season appearances. In case you didn't know, Tommy John and Jack Morris were great pitchers.

11-16-2011, 12:37 AM	#13
outrider64 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In The Bleachers Posts: 420	I'm curious to know what League Strategy, AI and Modifier Settings are you using. I've been meaning to doing a similar league as yours, but haven't had the time jump into it. Thanks.

11-16-2011, 06:28 PM	#15
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,625	I think your first problem is that it should be the best teams from 1970 through the 1990s. Otherwise you leave out far too many teams to get down to 16 total and 8 in each league. As far as I'm concerned, the 1980 Astros and 1980 Expos deserve consideration, as do the 1984 Padres. But if you're aiming for only 16 teams across 40 years, then you're hard pressed to really have a proper great teams list. It will be great teams minus a lot of other great teams.