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OOTP 14 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2013 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

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Old 07-31-2013, 05:39 PM   #61
Grafton19
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Wolf- What settings do you use for this again?


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Exactly. That should be the takeaway.

If Stats Only dors happen to intrigue you, though, I do encourage you to give it a try on your own.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:40 PM   #62
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I like the idea of stats only but can't help but think in real life GMs, managers, scouts, ect still are able to look at a player's tools and potential. Maybe if OOTP could expand the scout's feature a bit more.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:52 PM   #63
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Wolf- What settings do you use for this again?
Follow the search directions in my signature to find out what settings I and others use.
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Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 07-31-2013, 05:54 PM   #64
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I like the idea of stats only but can't help but think in real life GMs, managers, scouts, ect still are able to look at a player's tools and potential. Maybe if OOTP could expand the scout's feature a bit more.
I'd like that expansion, too. In the meantime, you might want to give SO a try. You may be pleasantly surprised. Or not.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 07-31-2013, 07:26 PM   #65
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Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest! What a divisive issue. Anyhow, I definitely don't think one way is better than another.

For me this works better because I couldn't feel what a four on contact was or a four on eye. My small brain couldn't make sense of it or what I could realistically expect with that number. But if I see a hitter is batting 250 (sorry I'm not much of a sabermatrician) that I can make sense of and I can say yeah I can live with a 250 avg because he has a high zr on defense. To me that is more immersive and I can wrap my brain around the numbers.

But again that is just for me and I don't think at all this way is better or harder than any other way. In fact, using stats only has made the game a bit easier for me. Go figure.

By the way on the shop player for a trade screen, is there any way of getting the stats to show next to the players automatically?(i am still on v13) It is a pain to have to click on each one. Maybe that would that would be a good suggestion to put in the suggestion box for 15 if it isn't already in 14.
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:40 PM   #66
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Some people need more of a challenge,so....One way is better than another if your looking for more of a challenge.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:00 PM   #67
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In fact, using stats only has made the game a bit easier for me. Go figure.
Get about 15-20 years in and then tell me stats only is easier. I also play with scouts off too.

Last edited by Scoman; 07-31-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:43 PM   #68
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To The Wolf: How I learned to stop worrying and love stats only

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Originally Posted by ELDoro View Post
I like the idea of stats only but can't help but think in real life GMs, managers, scouts, ect still are able to look at a player's tools and potential. Maybe if OOTP could expand the scout's feature a bit more.
Play 2-8 potential only ratings then. That's how I do it. For drafting purposes.
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:26 PM   #69
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Question about the draft: Do you only use feeder leagues for the draft or also the generated players?

or are only feeder league players used when you create one
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:35 AM   #70
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Question about the draft: Do you only use feeder leagues for the draft or also the generated players?

or are only feeder league players used when you create one
No players will be created for the draft if the league has a feeder league.
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:42 AM   #71
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Question about the draft: Do you only use feeder leagues for the draft or also the generated players?

or are only feeder league players used when you create one
I only use high school and college feeder leagues.
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Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 08-01-2013, 01:16 AM   #72
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Even as a member of the roster team, who has personally edited many of the ratings in the MLB quickstart, I have to confess.... I love stats only.

I do primarily play a neutered version of stats only that still includes the ratings in the value calculations. So maybe it's not true stats only as Wolf would define it. But it's a variation.

I see the ratings as the players tools, so I want them to have some effect in game. But I don't play with visible ratings anymore. While I like them to have an effect, I don't want to see them.

Seeing the ratings makes the game both too easy and less immersive to me. I end up relying too much on ratings and not enough on performance. Turning them off and relying only on stats turns OOTP into a new game and makes things much more difficult, fulfilling and fun.

I highly recommend trying it.

Last edited by Lukas Berger; 08-01-2013 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:20 AM   #73
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Seeing the ratings makes the game both too easy and less immersive to me. I end up relying too much on ratings and not enough on performance. Turning them off and relying only on stats turns OOTP into a new game and makes things much more difficult, fulfilling and fun.
This. Exactly.

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I highly recommend trying it.
This as well.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:25 AM   #74
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I'm exhausted...
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:46 AM   #75
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Food for thought

Nice discussion guys. I need to try some variation of stats-only when I get the chance.

I have been working on a few boardgame designs on the side for a while now, and one of the many books I have read is Jesse Schell's The Art of Game Design. In chapter two The Designer Creates an Experience, Jesse relates his thoughts (and wisdom in my opinion) as follows:
All this talk of experience brings out an idea that is very strange indeed. The only reality that we can know is the reality of the experience. And we know that what we experience is "not really reality". We filter reality through our senses, and through our minds, and the consciousness we actually experience is a kind of illusion - NOT really reality at all. But this illusion is all that can ever be real for us, because it IS us.- p. 21

As a boy growing up, I recall being puzzled by the fact that others weren't as awe-struck as myself regarding my latest interest(s). I think we all eventually work our way towards a personal understanding of this phenomenon, but I felt this captured it in a way that kind of wakes you up. Each of us has a record of our life experience in our head. We filter every thing we experience through it and it is completely unique to ourselves.
Kind of makes you wonder that we find as much common ground as we do in life.
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Old 08-01-2013, 11:36 AM   #76
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Play 2-8 potential only ratings then. That's how I do it. For drafting purposes.
I've done that in the past (I play 2-8 for all ratings, to at least get a little fog of war). My problem is that once players get past prospect stage, the potential rating turns into an excellent proxy for their current rating, and my senses tingle at looking and relying on those values.

As for the whole ratings vs scouting reports, I think a large factor to me of why I prefer scouting reports is the ease of use. In that, scouting reports are tedious to look through. So yes, if I opened up all my players scouting reports every day, I would know exactly the same as the ratings show me. But since I only open them up when needed, I don't get that same info. Some players I will basically never open their scouting report - if they're hitting as I expect, there's no point. So with that, if they start declining, and the scouting report has them go from an ace to a #2-3 starter to a #4-5 starter, I don't catch that unless if I actually see their performance drop. With ratings, you see it plain and obvious, and know exactly when your players start that downward trend as they get old, even if their stats are keeping pace.


The one thing I would like to see changed is the shift in scouting reports from potential when they are a prospect to be more reflective of their current stats (not ratings). I do know it shifts at one point - I occasionally have those like 26 year old "prospects" whose scouting report says they are destined for great things one day, then the next the scouting report has them as a middling AAAA player. But for a guy who's an established player, can quite clearly see what their current stats are showing - what I really want to see at that point are causes for concern, trends in the last year, and some sort of note about the longevity of their career. So if I have a guy like Kershaw, whose current scouting report says "potential HOF pitcher", I don't care if next season his scouting report says, "he may be a good #2 starter" - I'd much rather see a scouting report say, "his velocity is down from last year, and he has lost some control. We feel he should still be an effective #2 starter going forward". We're getting there with the development reports, but that's about the only thing that's missing from stats-only mode right now for me.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:06 PM   #77
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The thing that kills stats only for me is that it is not realistic.

In real life, GMs have stats and scouts. Sometimes, they say opposite things. Part of the skill is sorting that contrary information and weighing which one is right.

Eliminating one source of information is like playing a PGA event without walking the course or knowing the pin placements. No one would do it.
You can have both. I have scouts turned on, but ratings turned off. Therefor you can evaluate based on both tools, using written reports. Just make sure you have individual scouts for each team, because if you turn that off, the written scouting reports become too accurate.

Anyway, I too, started stats only two years ago via the Wolf and now I can't play any other way. Ratings are boring to me. I don't want to play arcade baseball, I want to have as close to a realistic experience as possible.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:09 PM   #78
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Verbal scouting reports say things like "elite offensive player, you can expect .300/.400/.600 in a given season". That's pretty easy to translate to ratings.

To me, stats only means only using stats.
Not if the scouting reports are inaccurate. You need to turn scouts on and set the accuracy to 'very low' to get the ultimate form of realism. In this case, you are given inaccurate written reports that give some sort of vague idea on overall ability, but stats will outweigh the reports every time. Just like in real life.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:39 PM   #79
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Not if the scouting reports are inaccurate. You need to turn scouts on and set the accuracy to 'very low' to get the ultimate form of realism. In this case, you are given inaccurate written reports that give some sort of vague idea on overall ability, but stats will outweigh the reports every time. Just like in real life.
This, exactly.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:45 PM   #80
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To The Wolf: How I learned to stop worrying and love stats only

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Not if the scouting reports are inaccurate. You need to turn scouts on and set the accuracy to 'very low' to get the ultimate form of realism. In this case, you are given inaccurate written reports that give some sort of vague idea on overall ability, but stats will outweigh the reports every time. Just like in real life.
Same is said for ratings. Those ratings are just a grade. When you create a player you don't simply put 8 or 80 as his speed rating..

I don't think using scouts or ratings are exclusive from each other. IMO, the most important thing is that you favor stats over ratings in the AI evaluation and in this case it's 0% ratings.

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