Rotating SP through the minors

BoomerSoonerAMH · 04-20-2018, 03:06 AM

So I know by real MLB transaction rules a player must spend 10 days in the minors after being optioned, but supposing a team had 2 viable SP to use in the 5th spot, could a team alternate calling up those 2 pitchers only on the days they are needed to pitch. On the days they aren’t pitching, an extra RP or bench player could be kept on the roster.

I try to stick to the 10 day rule, and I realize this strategy wouldn’t be possible if either of the potential 5th starter duo were out of options and/or had the right to refuse being optioned but I’m wondering if there is anything in actual MLB transaction rules that would prevent such a strategy.

Matt Arnold · 04-20-2018, 10:02 AM

Nothing explicit, but it requires a lot of arms to rotate through. For example:
Day 1:SP1 pitches
Day 2: sp1 sent down, rp1 called up
Day 6: rp1 sent down, sp2 called up
Day 7:sp2 sent down, rp2 called up
Day 11:rp2 sent down, sp1 called up
Day 12:sp1 sent down, rp3 called up

Generally speaking, most teams don't have 5 guys to swap around with options, just to have an extra bullpen arm sometimes. And injuries, off-days, etc... all play into this as well. The above I believe still needs one off-day in the schedule to line up, depending on exactly how they count days on option.

More often a team will just use a revolving last bullpen arm depending on fatigue. Or the Dodgers who play loose with DL time to skip a guy's start here or there.

BoomerSoonerAMH · 04-20-2018, 02:14 PM

I worked it out as such (assuming, SP1 starts on Day 1 and so forth through SP 4 on Day 4):

Day 1: Roster is 4 SP, 9 Position Starters (w/DH), 8 RP, 4 Bench Players
Day 5: Call up SP5, send down RP8 (Bullpen has 7 players for this day)
Day 6: Call up RP9 (RP8 is stuck for 10 days), Send down SP5
Day 10: Call up SP6 (SP5 is still stuck in MiLB), Send down Utility IF1 (Bench is 3 for this day)
Day 11: Call up Utility IF2, Send down SP6

At this point, I've rotated 2 SPs, 2 RP and 2 Utility IFs. The total 40-man roster space used by these players plus the other static guys on the roster is only 29 players. I made my Day 1 a Friday, so Day 11 would be a Monday and Day 14 would be a Thursday. Given MLB scheduling, one of those is likely to be a day off except for the 20 games in 20 days that every team plays once during the season. Even the 1 off day gives me the ability to just repeat this rotation and multiple off days allows me just to skip the 5th spot in the rotation entirely.

Mainly I was just trying to see how viable a 4 man static rotation with an occasional 5th starter would be assuming that 5th and 6th SP could be stashed in the minors and rotated in favor of a true RP or extra bench spot. Unless there is something I'm missing that limits the transactional portion of this, I think it is doable and wonder if MLB teams might look at this given the extra off days as the Rays are.

malor · 04-20-2018, 04:07 PM

What guarantee do you have that the RP or SP you are calling up from the minors is rested and ready to pitch on the day you need them in the majors? The AI will use them if rested and the SP you pull up may actually be a RP in the minor depending on the AAA managers needs.

If you are setting them to the bench in the minors, your punishing all of your other pitchers requiring them to pitch more with less rest. That is asking for injuries.

For me, it is just too much work for the little value it will provide. The guys bouncing up/down will be unhappy and very likely to not perform well, thus impacting team chemistry.

I'd be interested if you can get this to work. Please keep us informed of your progress.

BoomerSoonerAMH · 04-20-2018, 09:50 PM

Malor, I’m haven’t actually implemented it for an entire season as a strategy’s but I think I’ll give it a try just to see and let everyone know what comes of it. I hadn’t thought about the chemistry and morale aspects of the situation. I did think about the impact on the MiLB club, but I wasn’t too concerned as I seem to remember that it hasn’t been all that long since the AAA and AA roster sizes were increased from 24 to 25. As I play primarily MLB, the challenge is finding the right team to implement this with. I play a lot with the Rangers and their initial starting rotation has the ability to refuse demotion.

My initial question was mostly speculative after realizing I could make it through my post ASG schedule with only 2-3 starts from my 5th SP due to off days. An injury allowed me the ability to DL my 5th SP so I played with an 8 man bullpen until I needed to call up a SP. I sent my utility guy down because he was struggling anyway. Due to the off day situation, I wasn’t going to need another SP for 3 more turns through the rotation, so after the guy I called up made his start I sent him back down in favor of another utility type guy that was raking in AAA. Just didn’t make sense to carry a SP that I wasn’t going to need. I’m mostly wondering if anyone thinks MLB teams will try to figure out a way to free up a roster spot through a creative approach like this.

malor · 04-20-2018, 10:19 PM

I've went a different direction. I use a 6 man rotation out of spring training to spread out the work, keeping my starters rested and allowing them to go more inning a game, thus saving my bullpen a few extra innings here and there. Seems to work OK as long as you have 6 OK starters and 7 decent relievers (my league auto expanded rosters to 26, thus room for one more pitcher). But, when off days occur frequently in the schedule, I do tend to skip the 5th or 6th starter, giving my better reliever more work. I normally move the extra SP to the bullpen for a few days as MR or LR and move them back into the rotation when a long stretch of games is approaching so they will be rested. I may even switch a MR to Setup as needed based on how everyone is performing.

I've never completed a season using this method. I play with high injuries and someone always gets hurt. Since my 6th starter is my best backup, I don't bring up another AAA SP and instead go with another reliever.

This is what make OOTP great. Many different ways to enjoy the game and try out different methodologies for winning.

04-20-2018, 03:06 AM	#1
BoomerSoonerAMH Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 111	Rotating SP through the minors So I know by real MLB transaction rules a player must spend 10 days in the minors after being optioned, but supposing a team had 2 viable SP to use in the 5th spot, could a team alternate calling up those 2 pitchers only on the days they are needed to pitch. On the days they aren’t pitching, an extra RP or bench player could be kept on the roster. I try to stick to the 10 day rule, and I realize this strategy wouldn’t be possible if either of the potential 5th starter duo were out of options and/or had the right to refuse being optioned but I’m wondering if there is anything in actual MLB transaction rules that would prevent such a strategy.

04-20-2018, 10:02 AM	#2
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,124	Nothing explicit, but it requires a lot of arms to rotate through. For example: Day 1:SP1 pitches Day 2: sp1 sent down, rp1 called up Day 6: rp1 sent down, sp2 called up Day 7:sp2 sent down, rp2 called up Day 11:rp2 sent down, sp1 called up Day 12:sp1 sent down, rp3 called up Generally speaking, most teams don't have 5 guys to swap around with options, just to have an extra bullpen arm sometimes. And injuries, off-days, etc... all play into this as well. The above I believe still needs one off-day in the schedule to line up, depending on exactly how they count days on option. More often a team will just use a revolving last bullpen arm depending on fatigue. Or the Dodgers who play loose with DL time to skip a guy's start here or there.

04-20-2018, 02:14 PM	#3
BoomerSoonerAMH Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 111	I worked it out as such (assuming, SP1 starts on Day 1 and so forth through SP 4 on Day 4): Day 1: Roster is 4 SP, 9 Position Starters (w/DH), 8 RP, 4 Bench Players Day 5: Call up SP5, send down RP8 (Bullpen has 7 players for this day) Day 6: Call up RP9 (RP8 is stuck for 10 days), Send down SP5 Day 10: Call up SP6 (SP5 is still stuck in MiLB), Send down Utility IF1 (Bench is 3 for this day) Day 11: Call up Utility IF2, Send down SP6 At this point, I've rotated 2 SPs, 2 RP and 2 Utility IFs. The total 40-man roster space used by these players plus the other static guys on the roster is only 29 players. I made my Day 1 a Friday, so Day 11 would be a Monday and Day 14 would be a Thursday. Given MLB scheduling, one of those is likely to be a day off except for the 20 games in 20 days that every team plays once during the season. Even the 1 off day gives me the ability to just repeat this rotation and multiple off days allows me just to skip the 5th spot in the rotation entirely. Mainly I was just trying to see how viable a 4 man static rotation with an occasional 5th starter would be assuming that 5th and 6th SP could be stashed in the minors and rotated in favor of a true RP or extra bench spot. Unless there is something I'm missing that limits the transactional portion of this, I think it is doable and wonder if MLB teams might look at this given the extra off days as the Rays are.

04-20-2018, 04:07 PM	#4
malor Major Leagues Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 303	What guarantee do you have that the RP or SP you are calling up from the minors is rested and ready to pitch on the day you need them in the majors? The AI will use them if rested and the SP you pull up may actually be a RP in the minor depending on the AAA managers needs. If you are setting them to the bench in the minors, your punishing all of your other pitchers requiring them to pitch more with less rest. That is asking for injuries. For me, it is just too much work for the little value it will provide. The guys bouncing up/down will be unhappy and very likely to not perform well, thus impacting team chemistry. I'd be interested if you can get this to work. Please keep us informed of your progress.

04-20-2018, 09:50 PM	#5
BoomerSoonerAMH Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 111	Malor, I’m haven’t actually implemented it for an entire season as a strategy’s but I think I’ll give it a try just to see and let everyone know what comes of it. I hadn’t thought about the chemistry and morale aspects of the situation. I did think about the impact on the MiLB club, but I wasn’t too concerned as I seem to remember that it hasn’t been all that long since the AAA and AA roster sizes were increased from 24 to 25. As I play primarily MLB, the challenge is finding the right team to implement this with. I play a lot with the Rangers and their initial starting rotation has the ability to refuse demotion. My initial question was mostly speculative after realizing I could make it through my post ASG schedule with only 2-3 starts from my 5th SP due to off days. An injury allowed me the ability to DL my 5th SP so I played with an 8 man bullpen until I needed to call up a SP. I sent my utility guy down because he was struggling anyway. Due to the off day situation, I wasn’t going to need another SP for 3 more turns through the rotation, so after the guy I called up made his start I sent him back down in favor of another utility type guy that was raking in AAA. Just didn’t make sense to carry a SP that I wasn’t going to need. I’m mostly wondering if anyone thinks MLB teams will try to figure out a way to free up a roster spot through a creative approach like this.

04-20-2018, 10:19 PM	#6
malor Major Leagues Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 303	I've went a different direction. I use a 6 man rotation out of spring training to spread out the work, keeping my starters rested and allowing them to go more inning a game, thus saving my bullpen a few extra innings here and there. Seems to work OK as long as you have 6 OK starters and 7 decent relievers (my league auto expanded rosters to 26, thus room for one more pitcher). But, when off days occur frequently in the schedule, I do tend to skip the 5th or 6th starter, giving my better reliever more work. I normally move the extra SP to the bullpen for a few days as MR or LR and move them back into the rotation when a long stretch of games is approaching so they will be rested. I may even switch a MR to Setup as needed based on how everyone is performing. I've never completed a season using this method. I play with high injuries and someone always gets hurt. Since my 6th starter is my best backup, I don't bring up another AAA SP and instead go with another reliever. This is what make OOTP great. Many different ways to enjoy the game and try out different methodologies for winning.