To The Wolf: How I learned to stop worrying and love stats only - Page 7

TribeFanInNC · 08-03-2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

The thing that kills stats only for me is that it is not realistic.

In real life, GMs have stats and scouts. Sometimes, they say opposite things. Part of the skill is sorting that contrary information and weighing which one is right.

Eliminating one source of information is like playing a PGA event without walking the course or knowing the pin placements. No one would do it.

I'm way late on this discussion, but my two cents anyway...

The middle statement above seems to get to the heart of why some people I've talked to do not like stats only. Basically, you have to act as both the scout AND the GM when you play stats only. Some people love both those roles - if so, I think stats only is for you. If you just want to make baseball business decisions, then it is not for you. If you mostly want to just decide whether to send the runner on a 2-1 pitch, then stats only is not for you. You have to want to be a scout. Some people find that extremely tedious. I can totally understand that.

That said, I love it and play all my solo endeavors stats only and encourage others to give it a try.

The Wolf · 08-04-2013, 01:12 AM

Good points. My take on it is that I have to be GM first, scout second and manager third.

alphington · 08-10-2013, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

I'm way late on this discussion, but my two cents anyway...

The middle statement above seems to get to the heart of why some people I've talked to do not like stats only. Basically, you have to act as both the scout AND the GM when you play stats only. Some people love both those roles - if so, I think stats only is for you. If you just want to make baseball business decisions, then it is not for you. If you mostly want to just decide whether to send the runner on a 2-1 pitch, then stats only is not for you. You have to want to be a scout. Some people find that extremely tedious. I can totally understand that.

That said, I love it and play all my solo endeavors stats only and encourage others to give it a try.

A big thanks to all here for advice on stats only which I am just about to start - given scouting is on but I've set it to v poor then should I have a scouting budget at all or should I save money and leave the scouting budget empty or minimal? Thanks!

TribeFanInNC · 08-10-2013, 08:35 AM

I think this is going to be a more involved answer than requested, but I'll give it anyway.

I tend to avoid finding ways that could give me an unfair advantage in some way. This is akin to essentially setting house rules. I think by cutting your scouting budget to zero (because you know you are playing stats only), you could be potentially giving yourself an advantage over the AI teams because the other AI teams are spending on scouting budget while you have more money to reapportion to other things. Some of the purpose of these budgets is to have realistic expendures in the game other than just salaries. If you subvert this by not using them, then you are working slightly against the intent of the game.

Of course, you could also argue this is just a management style and that would be fine too. I'm not really saying one way is right or wrong, just my opinion. My recommendation would be to just spend the average and leave it at that.

alphington · 08-10-2013, 09:05 AM

Many thanks for the reply TribeFan this sounds good to me - I had not thought of this point and agree with you - my head is still spinning slightly from getting the game into SO mode (problems with the draft now fixed etc etc...) so your help comes at a good time - armed with this I think I'm ready to start my SO experience.

The Wolf · 08-10-2013, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphington

Many thanks for the reply TribeFan this sounds good to me - I had not thought of this point and agree with you - my head is still spinning slightly from getting the game into SO mode (problems with the draft now fixed etc etc...) so your help comes at a good time - armed with this I think I'm ready to start my SO experience.

You may never go back.

alphington · 08-11-2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You may never go back.

Yes I think you could be correct!

I just found the following 1990 quote from Eddie Epstein who was hired by the Orioles as a 'stat-man' (in Schwartz, The Numbers Game p.227) which fits perfectly with the concept and set-up of the stats-only game as outlined by you (and others here of course):

'If you've got a guy who's 23 or 24 [years old] and has been a professional player for 4 or 5 years, I don't care what the scouts think. I can look at the numbers.'

Most or all here may know of this already but it was new to me.

The Wolf · 08-11-2013, 10:08 PM

I didn't come up with the idea of Stats Only and I suspect that I am not the greatest expert on it. I doubt if we'll ever know who those two guys are, though.

kuma78 · 08-21-2013, 09:54 AM

I was inspired to give Stats Only a try after reading this thread. All my OOTP life, I've ALWAYS played MLB rosters and gotten bored as players became fictional.

I have spent about a week running test sims and setting up a 16 team fictional league with four levels of minors and HS / College feeders.

Finally, I was ready to go after getting the stats I wanted to see over the long haul of simming.

All I can say is THANK YOU. It used to be that I opened my organization and just simply sorted by Stars. I would base most of my decisions on that.

Last night, I went through my whole organization player by player and evaluated their histories, set it up on a spreadsheet and color coded them by how I rated them from a value standpoint. I've only watched my manager manage two games, but I've enjoyed those two games more than any I've ever played and I've had OOTP since back in V5.

Thanks guys, for all the activity in this forum and for showing me a new way to play.

The Wolf · 08-21-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuma78

All I can say is THANK YOU.

All I can say is YOU'RE WELCOME. I catch a lot of silly crap for being the Stats Only advocate, but stories like yours make all the crap worthwhile.

Stats Only makes the game what it should always have been. (Yes, that's "only your [my] opinion" - but I firmly believe that it's a true statement.)

Mr. Baseball · 08-21-2013, 10:37 AM

Similar to Wolf, I advocate and push stats-only because I want people to enjoy OOTP to the fullest like I have. You can play the way you want, but I'm very confident that if you just tried it with an open mind you'd never go back. I'd bet money on it.

If you want a challenge, you want to do stats only. No matter how you format leagues that use ratings, the fact of the matter is you're eventually going to develop an empire with your franchise that plays .650 baseball every year. To me, that's boring.

The Wolf · 08-21-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

Similar to Wolf, I advocate and push stats-only because I want people to enjoy OOTP to the fullest like I have. You can play the way you want, but I'm very confident that if you just tried it with an open mind you'd never go back. I'd bet money on it.

If you want a challenge, you want to do stats only. No matter how you format leagues that use ratings, the fact of the matter is you're eventually going to develop an empire with your franchise that plays .650 baseball every year. To me, that's boring.

Exactly.

kuma78 · 08-21-2013, 10:57 AM

I set my scouting accuracy to very low and set all ratings to off except ones for speed / fielding, etc.

It has forced me to open player pages, learn about them, etc. I simmed 10 years before I started, so I'm able to look at histories to see where guys were drafted. If you're reading this and haven't tried it, give it a try.

lere2001 · 01-12-2014, 07:23 PM

Is there a full guide somewhere on how to set up a stats only league with feeders (HS and college)?

Honorable_Pawn · 01-12-2014, 07:29 PM

There's a ton of threads on the subject and there were some attempts at guides back in the 2007-2008 era. Try the search feature. What I recommend is to set up a no-frills league. No logos and turn off face-gen to speed things up. Don't change names...nothing.

Go with a default fictionla MLB set-up. Sim a season. Then add feeders. Sim 10-15 seasons checking at least once or twice a season to see what you are getting. It'll take a 8-10 hours. It's time well spent. You'll have a very solid feel for what does what and then you'll start to tweak.

Once you have what you want then you're ready to implement in a "keeper" league.

So my suggestion is to save the time on initial research. Use that time experimenting. Once you can formulate specific questions then spend time on research. Until then...get to work.

farmkidD2 · 01-23-2014, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Standard usage.

Oxford Dictionaries:

Definition of vanilla in English
vanilla
Syllabification: (va·nil·la)
Pronunciation: /vəˈnilə/
Translate vanilla | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish

adjective
(also plain vanilla) informal
having no special or extra features; ordinary or standard:
choosing plain vanilla technology wherever you can will save you money
the original, vanilla MP3 format is still the most commonly encountered form of the technology
they seem to be quite content in their plain vanilla domestic life

This thread was entertaining and I'm definitely going to give SO a try, but I couldn't help but to point out that according to this definition, Wolf, the way you play is actually vanilla. Taking away an extra feature or having no special features(ie removing ratings) is definitely more vanilla than someone who plays the game with ratings, according to this definition. Not to stir up the hornets nest again, but I thought it was amusing.

Thanks to all who have awakened me to the world of SO. While I prefer chocolate ice cream, vanilla OOTP is the way to go for me.

DanP68 · 02-04-2014, 08:55 PM

I run a fictional league with over 20 years of history (and these are seasons which I have watched and participated in, rather than quickly simmed).

In my opinion Stats Only leads to greater immersion. There is a 2nd or 3rd year player in our league who is a good infielder with speed, but has always been known as a punch-less hitter. This season he gets off to a crazy start, hitting nearly .400 through the first 6 weeks of the season. Game winning hits galore.

If ratings are turned on, I can easily check if this is just a lucky aberration and if the hitter is still punch-less. But with Stats Only, suddenly there is a buzz created. Is this kid having a breakout year, and becoming a new star? Is is just a small sample size pile of luck dragons? How many game winning hits is this kid going to have before people take notice?

That's my favorite part about Stats Only. It adds mystery and excitement, and even hope. That kid down in AA who is striking out 7.0 per 9 but hasn't gotten any publicity might be a sleeper major league player. Turn on his skills to see his poor profile, and there is no longer a reason to hope. (except hope that your scout's ratings are horrible).

sandman2575 · 02-06-2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanP68

That's my favorite part about Stats Only. It adds mystery and excitement, and even hope. That kid down in AA who is striking out 7.0 per 9 but hasn't gotten any publicity might be a sleeper major league player. Turn on his skills to see his poor profile, and there is no longer a reason to hope. (except hope that your scout's ratings are horrible).

Completely agree. I'm a very recent convert to Stats Only, but I am definitely finding it more immersive. Previously, if my stars weren't living up to their ratings, it just made the game frustrating. Now, it's hard to say what a player is 'living up to' or not. The element of uncertainty makes a surprising amount of difference, to me at least.

dward1 · 02-08-2014, 03:30 AM

can someone explain exactly the importance of the AI Evaluation factors if you are playing stats only? it only affects how the AI looks at players so it should have no effect on the human manager if I am correct.

I play 80 game seasons with leagues of widely varying quality so I don't really want the AI judging players based on stats, so I should put the AI Evaluation at something like 50-60% on ratings correct?

also, a related question is if scouting accuracy is set on low, does this mean the AI has poor scouts as well as the human?

Mr. Marlin · 02-08-2014, 07:29 AM

Playing stats only does not change anything about the game or how the AI operates. Only the amount of information you see. All the ratings are still there and the AI still uses whatever it uses to do it's thing. The ratings are just hidden from you leaving you only player performance and the scouts written reports to go on.

08-21-2013, 09:54 AM	#129
kuma78 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Wake Forest, NC Posts: 437	I was inspired to give Stats Only a try after reading this thread. All my OOTP life, I've ALWAYS played MLB rosters and gotten bored as players became fictional. I have spent about a week running test sims and setting up a 16 team fictional league with four levels of minors and HS / College feeders. Finally, I was ready to go after getting the stats I wanted to see over the long haul of simming. All I can say is THANK YOU. It used to be that I opened my organization and just simply sorted by Stars. I would base most of my decisions on that. Last night, I went through my whole organization player by player and evaluated their histories, set it up on a spreadsheet and color coded them by how I rated them from a value standpoint. I've only watched my manager manage two games, but I've enjoyed those two games more than any I've ever played and I've had OOTP since back in V5. Thanks guys, for all the activity in this forum and for showing me a new way to play. __________________ Looking for informative and entertaining Cubs baseball talk? Check out The View From The Bleachers

08-21-2013, 10:37 AM	#131
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	Similar to Wolf, I advocate and push stats-only because I want people to enjoy OOTP to the fullest like I have. You can play the way you want, but I'm very confident that if you just tried it with an open mind you'd never go back. I'd bet money on it. If you want a challenge, you want to do stats only. No matter how you format leagues that use ratings, the fact of the matter is you're eventually going to develop an empire with your franchise that plays .650 baseball every year. To me, that's boring. __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions! Last edited by Mr. Baseball; 08-21-2013 at 10:38 AM.

08-21-2013, 10:57 AM	#133
kuma78 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Wake Forest, NC Posts: 437	I set my scouting accuracy to very low and set all ratings to off except ones for speed / fielding, etc. It has forced me to open player pages, learn about them, etc. I simmed 10 years before I started, so I'm able to look at histories to see where guys were drafted. If you're reading this and haven't tried it, give it a try. __________________ Looking for informative and entertaining Cubs baseball talk? Check out The View From The Bleachers

01-12-2014, 07:29 PM	#135
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	There's a ton of threads on the subject and there were some attempts at guides back in the 2007-2008 era. Try the search feature. What I recommend is to set up a no-frills league. No logos and turn off face-gen to speed things up. Don't change names...nothing. Go with a default fictionla MLB set-up. Sim a season. Then add feeders. Sim 10-15 seasons checking at least once or twice a season to see what you are getting. It'll take a 8-10 hours. It's time well spent. You'll have a very solid feel for what does what and then you'll start to tweak. Once you have what you want then you're ready to implement in a "keeper" league. So my suggestion is to save the time on initial research. Use that time experimenting. Once you can formulate specific questions then spend time on research. Until then...get to work. __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.

08-10-2013, 08:35 AM	#124
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	I think this is going to be a more involved answer than requested, but I'll give it anyway. I tend to avoid finding ways that could give me an unfair advantage in some way. This is akin to essentially setting house rules. I think by cutting your scouting budget to zero (because you know you are playing stats only), you could be potentially giving yourself an advantage over the AI teams because the other AI teams are spending on scouting budget while you have more money to reapportion to other things. Some of the purpose of these budgets is to have realistic expendures in the game other than just salaries. If you subvert this by not using them, then you are working slightly against the intent of the game. Of course, you could also argue this is just a management style and that would be fine too. I'm not really saying one way is right or wrong, just my opinion. My recommendation would be to just spend the average and leave it at that.

08-10-2013, 09:05 AM	#125
alphington Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 71	Many thanks for the reply TribeFan this sounds good to me - I had not thought of this point and agree with you - my head is still spinning slightly from getting the game into SO mode (problems with the draft now fixed etc etc...) so your help comes at a good time - armed with this I think I'm ready to start my SO experience.

01-12-2014, 07:23 PM	#134
lere2001 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 48	Is there a full guide somewhere on how to set up a stats only league with feeders (HS and college)?

02-04-2014, 08:55 PM	#137
DanP68 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 151	I run a fictional league with over 20 years of history (and these are seasons which I have watched and participated in, rather than quickly simmed). In my opinion Stats Only leads to greater immersion. There is a 2nd or 3rd year player in our league who is a good infielder with speed, but has always been known as a punch-less hitter. This season he gets off to a crazy start, hitting nearly .400 through the first 6 weeks of the season. Game winning hits galore. If ratings are turned on, I can easily check if this is just a lucky aberration and if the hitter is still punch-less. But with Stats Only, suddenly there is a buzz created. Is this kid having a breakout year, and becoming a new star? Is is just a small sample size pile of luck dragons? How many game winning hits is this kid going to have before people take notice? That's my favorite part about Stats Only. It adds mystery and excitement, and even hope. That kid down in AA who is striking out 7.0 per 9 but hasn't gotten any publicity might be a sleeper major league player. Turn on his skills to see his poor profile, and there is no longer a reason to hope. (except hope that your scout's ratings are horrible).

02-08-2014, 03:30 AM	#139
dward1 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 929	can someone explain exactly the importance of the AI Evaluation factors if you are playing stats only? it only affects how the AI looks at players so it should have no effect on the human manager if I am correct. I play 80 game seasons with leagues of widely varying quality so I don't really want the AI judging players based on stats, so I should put the AI Evaluation at something like 50-60% on ratings correct? also, a related question is if scouting accuracy is set on low, does this mean the AI has poor scouts as well as the human?

02-08-2014, 07:29 AM	#140
Mr. Marlin All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,245	Playing stats only does not change anything about the game or how the AI operates. Only the amount of information you see. All the ratings are still there and the AI still uses whatever it uses to do it's thing. The ratings are just hidden from you leaving you only player performance and the scouts written reports to go on.