Negro League Baseball Release - Page 2

Cooperstown · 07-30-2009, 07:33 PM

CPB, If you have a sortable spreadsheet to reference your batting/pitching ratings that would be great. Easy way for me to examine the data. By position or overall either way.

My original focus was to mimic the Cooperstown file I did. Although, statistically speaking that was easier by far! The players were to relect the highest level of each players talent to equal MLB players.

As with the Cooperstown file, it appears pitching (and defense) dominates hitting. I would like some input on the best way to effect a mass change in ratings (League Setting would only hold if they are keep in that league, and I dont know of anyway to mass change values for all players.

BTW- I was referencing Pop Lloyd as the black Ty Cobb, due to the inclusion and reference in Bill James Top 100 players acticle LOL. It referred to the hitting ability, not overall player comparisons

IMHO I think he was better than Wagner, who when looking at ALL TIME greats is a little over rated looking at his entire history, although the peak season reference he shoots up the board.

Spritze, you confirmed my results with the season data. The problem is there are a lot more sub par position players than pitchers. I think I will go through the pitchers and downgrade any that dont make the cut after considering the information from CPB. What would you do to improve the results just within the confines of this roster?

My primary goal was to get the players set up, I play out games, not much of a simmer. So the magic is easily created for this type of play, the wrangling of number to manipulate outcomes can be tedious at best

But, in the grand scheme it would be to get the best of both worlds!

I am also compiling the set for [league redacted] League. Best players for all 12 franchises. Ultimately I would like to merge the 3 leagues, Cooperstown/Negro/Nippon into one, or take the top 1600 players and form a 40 team draft league

Can you see Victor Starffin pitching agsinst Josh Gibson, or Sadararu Oh swinging against Bob Gibson? That would be great

Thanks guys for the input, you can email to jasontwick@q.com with data or post whatever is easier. Considering the wealth of knowledge, can I say I hate you CPB? I am looking forward to moving forward with your help.

In case you look at the Cooperstown file, be aware I for the most part, did not include players pre 1900! Dont want to get the beat down

Coop

Cooperstown · 07-30-2009, 07:44 PM

CPB-

I was wondering?

Can you really turn the light off in the room and be under the covers before it's dark?

Not counting already being in bed btw! Even I can do that one.

Coop

Cool Papa Bell · 07-30-2009, 08:35 PM

Don't hate me! And yeeesssss...I can turn the light switch off and get in bed and be under the covers before it gets dark...just sayin'... :-)

Seriously though, I do have quite a few years of researching these players and baseball history in general, so any input I'd be happy to give you. As far as Bill James, he and Stats Inc are fairly pompous and not all that knowledgeable about the NeL's. Everything is not pure statistics when it comes to rating these players, since so much of the history was either not recorded at all or lost. Stats oriented guys cannot fathom that. And yes, the 'Black Honus Wagner' reference is just what Lloyd was called as a nickname during his day, but his hitting ability put him on par with Cobb.

By the way, for the past 9 years we have in fact been pitting Victor Starffin against Mel Ott and Satchel Paige facing Babe Ruth and Oh stepping in against Luis Tiant Sr, along with Masaichi Kaneda and Eiji Sawamura and Andy Cooper and Cannonball Redding facing Tris Speaker, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson and on and on...in the Legends of Cooperstown League that I mentioned. It's a Strat-O-Matic based league though, using their HoF 2000 roster set, my created players and a different past season each year. This season we went Deadball with 1912 and had Joe Wood and my favorite Chief Wilson...one of those unbreakable MLB records he holds, do you know what it is...and don't cheat and go to Baseball-Reference.com... :-) Next year we go current with 2006 and see how Manny does against Satchel and Pujols does against Lefty Grove. Excellent league by the way...just sayin'...

Cooperstown · 07-30-2009, 10:18 PM

DAMN IT!

3b's

I had to look......

Yeah, I look at most statistical analysis with a grain of salt, but I have enjoyed a lot from James. He is kinda of an ass though. And yeah, he has almost no real depth of information about the Negro Leagues.

I used to SOMBB with the same set, although I found the input of players, too tedious and gave up after trying for a several years. I gave all my cards away to (thousands of them, prolly 20 seasons and individual teams in the hundreds) my buddies in Portland when I moved back to Spokane. We had a big group played every weekend after poker night!

Looking forward to the information.

Coop

Spritze · 07-31-2009, 12:47 AM

By the way, I am not a simmerer, usually I play out games and I have been liking this league playingoutwise.

Ideas to get more offense.... either adjust the default LTM's for this league or change the era_stats file or export-adjust-import the player files.

Spritze · 07-31-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Papa Bell

By the way, for the past 9 years we have in fact been pitting Victor Starffin against Mel Ott and Satchel Paige facing Babe Ruth and Oh stepping in against Luis Tiant Sr, along with Masaichi Kaneda and Eiji Sawamura and Andy Cooper and Cannonball Redding facing Tris Speaker, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson and on and on ..

The Spritze db also has these same negro league and japanese players in it! So I've been able to do this since OOTP6. Cooperstowns db is a way more inclusive set of Negro League players and Murmur has a way more inclusive Japanese set. ...just sayin'. I like them all.

ashantewarrier · 07-31-2009, 01:32 AM

Excellent work Coop!

Cooperstown · 07-31-2009, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

By the way, I am not a simmerer, usually I play out games and I have been liking this league playingoutwise.

Ideas to get more offense.... either adjust the default LTM's for this league or change the era_stats file or export-adjust-import the player files.

I tried the export-adjust-import and , well, Im retarded! If you have any easily understood instructions I would appreciate it

No idea on the whole era_stats file hehe

Based on your sim results, any ideas on the changes to the LTM's?

Thanks for the technical insight! Obviously you are a pro in these areas.

Made some changes already, will adjust the overall ratings for the top players then check sim results again, then make the League changes, hopefully based on some of your insights.

Coop

Cooperstown · 07-31-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

Excellent work Coop!

Thanks!

It looks like it will be getting even better too!

Coop

Spritze · 07-31-2009, 01:18 PM

These are the modifiers from my last run. Year was 2009 of course.

Spritze · 07-31-2009, 01:57 PM

Before the application of the above LTM's

Spritze · 07-31-2009, 01:58 PM

After applying the above LTM's

Spritze · 07-31-2009, 02:01 PM

Depending on what you are shooting for adjust the LTM's as necessary.

The before is with all LTM's set at 1.000

Cooperstown · 08-01-2009, 02:08 AM

Ok I see now.

Thanks Spritze, that is ceratinly easier to adjust for the league wide results. I can manipulate it at will

I will rework the rosters, as I get more feedback.

For now trying to finsih off the Nippon League file :O

Coop

Cooperstown · 08-10-2009, 06:25 AM

Hey all,

Little update:

Just starting in on adding/editing players help from CPB. Will make some adjustments, especially to the LTM's per Spritze

Hopefully wont take too long.

Coop

bubba22plus · 08-11-2009, 01:47 PM

I laughed at Groundhog Thompson again once i figured out his height.

This is truly a wonderful file.

Cooperstown · 08-11-2009, 07:32 PM

LOL,

Yeah I know

I noticed that several players from "T-Z" in the alphabet were missing from the rosters. So I am adding them and making the adjustments thanks to CPB and Spritze

Hopefully it wont take long!

Coop

Cooperstown · 08-12-2009, 09:44 PM

Man,

I must of missed a save before I released the final file. There was only like 15 guys imported from T-Z! So I have updated all of them. The roster now has 40 players for each team. I have edited most of the players, and now am looking at players vs players to stack rank appropriately.

I will Spritzerize the LTM for a more balanced league result as well

Thanks to CPB I have updated the aforementioned NeL stars that were dissed on

I will post an updated file, so people can weigh in an see where we are.

BTW I posted in another thread....Spritze/CPB do you guys know how to integrate (if it is possible) the 3 rosters into a single one? Lemmie know!

Coop

mgom27 · 08-22-2009, 07:14 PM

How about in a Template for use to use?

Spritze · 08-22-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooperstown

BTW I posted in another thread....Spritze/CPB do you guys know how to integrate (if it is possible) the 3 rosters into a single one? Lemmie know!Coop

Don't see this other thread so either point me there or "You got some esplainin' to do Lucy!"
What 3 rosters?

07-30-2009, 07:33 PM	#21
Cooperstown Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 225	Nice! CPB, If you have a sortable spreadsheet to reference your batting/pitching ratings that would be great. Easy way for me to examine the data. By position or overall either way. My original focus was to mimic the Cooperstown file I did. Although, statistically speaking that was easier by far! The players were to relect the highest level of each players talent to equal MLB players. As with the Cooperstown file, it appears pitching (and defense) dominates hitting. I would like some input on the best way to effect a mass change in ratings (League Setting would only hold if they are keep in that league, and I dont know of anyway to mass change values for all players. BTW- I was referencing Pop Lloyd as the black Ty Cobb, due to the inclusion and reference in Bill James Top 100 players acticle LOL. It referred to the hitting ability, not overall player comparisons IMHO I think he was better than Wagner, who when looking at ALL TIME greats is a little over rated looking at his entire history, although the peak season reference he shoots up the board. Spritze, you confirmed my results with the season data. The problem is there are a lot more sub par position players than pitchers. I think I will go through the pitchers and downgrade any that dont make the cut after considering the information from CPB. What would you do to improve the results just within the confines of this roster? My primary goal was to get the players set up, I play out games, not much of a simmer. So the magic is easily created for this type of play, the wrangling of number to manipulate outcomes can be tedious at best But, in the grand scheme it would be to get the best of both worlds! I am also compiling the set for [league redacted] League. Best players for all 12 franchises. Ultimately I would like to merge the 3 leagues, Cooperstown/Negro/Nippon into one, or take the top 1600 players and form a 40 team draft league Can you see Victor Starffin pitching agsinst Josh Gibson, or Sadararu Oh swinging against Bob Gibson? That would be great Thanks guys for the input, you can email to jasontwick@q.com with data or post whatever is easier. Considering the wealth of knowledge, can I say I hate you CPB? I am looking forward to moving forward with your help. In case you look at the Cooperstown file, be aware I for the most part, did not include players pre 1900! Dont want to get the beat down Coop

07-30-2009, 07:44 PM	#22
Cooperstown Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 225	One question... CPB- I was wondering? Can you really turn the light off in the room and be under the covers before it's dark? Not counting already being in bed btw! Even I can do that one. Coop

07-30-2009, 08:35 PM	#23
Cool Papa Bell Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 415	Don't hate me! And yeeesssss...I can turn the light switch off and get in bed and be under the covers before it gets dark...just sayin'... :-) Seriously though, I do have quite a few years of researching these players and baseball history in general, so any input I'd be happy to give you. As far as Bill James, he and Stats Inc are fairly pompous and not all that knowledgeable about the NeL's. Everything is not pure statistics when it comes to rating these players, since so much of the history was either not recorded at all or lost. Stats oriented guys cannot fathom that. And yes, the 'Black Honus Wagner' reference is just what Lloyd was called as a nickname during his day, but his hitting ability put him on par with Cobb. By the way, for the past 9 years we have in fact been pitting Victor Starffin against Mel Ott and Satchel Paige facing Babe Ruth and Oh stepping in against Luis Tiant Sr, along with Masaichi Kaneda and Eiji Sawamura and Andy Cooper and Cannonball Redding facing Tris Speaker, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson and on and on...in the Legends of Cooperstown League that I mentioned. It's a Strat-O-Matic based league though, using their HoF 2000 roster set, my created players and a different past season each year. This season we went Deadball with 1912 and had Joe Wood and my favorite Chief Wilson...one of those unbreakable MLB records he holds, do you know what it is...and don't cheat and go to Baseball-Reference.com... :-) Next year we go current with 2006 and see how Manny does against Satchel and Pujols does against Lefty Grove. Excellent league by the way...just sayin'... __________________ "About race, I'm going to say this. If you're green or purple or whatever color, you can play for me if I think you can help this ballclub.That's all I'm going to say about race." Leo Durocher, New York Giants manager, 1946

07-31-2009, 01:32 AM	#27
ashantewarrier Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somerset, NJ via Brooklyn, NY Posts: 2,293 Blog Entries: 7	Excellent work Coop! __________________ "I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me... All I ask is that you respect me as a human being." -Jackie Robinson, #42 Brooklyn Dodgers *"Hitting is better than sex."* - Reggie Jackson

07-31-2009, 01:18 PM	#30
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	These are the modifiers from my last run. Year was 2009 of course. Attached Images

07-30-2009, 10:18 PM	#24
Cooperstown Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 225	DAMN IT! 3b's I had to look...... Yeah, I look at most statistical analysis with a grain of salt, but I have enjoyed a lot from James. He is kinda of an ass though. And yeah, he has almost no real depth of information about the Negro Leagues. I used to SOMBB with the same set, although I found the input of players, too tedious and gave up after trying for a several years. I gave all my cards away to (thousands of them, prolly 20 seasons and individual teams in the hundreds) my buddies in Portland when I moved back to Spokane. We had a big group played every weekend after poker night! Looking forward to the information. Coop

07-31-2009, 12:47 AM	#25
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	By the way, I am not a simmerer, usually I play out games and I have been liking this league playingoutwise. Ideas to get more offense.... either adjust the default LTM's for this league or change the era_stats file or export-adjust-import the player files.

07-31-2009, 01:57 PM	#31
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Before Before the application of the above LTM's Attached Images

07-31-2009, 01:58 PM	#32
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	After After applying the above LTM's Attached Images

07-31-2009, 02:01 PM	#33
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Depending on what you are shooting for adjust the LTM's as necessary. The before is with all LTM's set at 1.000

08-01-2009, 02:08 AM	#34
Cooperstown Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 225	Ok I see now. Thanks Spritze, that is ceratinly easier to adjust for the league wide results. I can manipulate it at will I will rework the rosters, as I get more feedback. For now trying to finsih off the Nippon League file :O Coop

08-10-2009, 06:25 AM	#35
Cooperstown Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 225	Hey all, Little update: Just starting in on adding/editing players help from CPB. Will make some adjustments, especially to the LTM's per Spritze Hopefully wont take too long. Coop

08-11-2009, 01:47 PM	#36
bubba22plus All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Equestria Posts: 808	I laughed at Groundhog Thompson again once i figured out his height. This is truly a wonderful file. __________________ OOTP Resident Brony

08-11-2009, 07:32 PM	#37
Cooperstown Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 225	LOL, Yeah I know I noticed that several players from "T-Z" in the alphabet were missing from the rosters. So I am adding them and making the adjustments thanks to CPB and Spritze Hopefully it wont take long! Coop

08-12-2009, 09:44 PM	#38
Cooperstown Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2007 Location: Spokane, Washington Posts: 225	and then..... Man, I must of missed a save before I released the final file. There was only like 15 guys imported from T-Z! So I have updated all of them. The roster now has 40 players for each team. I have edited most of the players, and now am looking at players vs players to stack rank appropriately. I will Spritzerize the LTM for a more balanced league result as well Thanks to CPB I have updated the aforementioned NeL stars that were dissed on I will post an updated file, so people can weigh in an see where we are. BTW I posted in another thread....Spritze/CPB do you guys know how to integrate (if it is possible) the 3 rosters into a single one? Lemmie know! Coop

08-22-2009, 07:14 PM	#39
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,520	How about in a Template for use to use? __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!