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Old 02-14-2020, 11:42 AM   #1
rburgh
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Tanking Solution?

Can you just set up the game to monitor the average card value of, say, the 20 lowest card value players on your active roster against the highest 20 card value players that you own that were not active for that game (checking both the reserve roster and deactivated list)? If so, you could then assign a team 1 point for every game they play where the inactives outrated the actives and simply refuse to relegate any team that has a score of, say, 5 or more for the season.

You could also do this proactively at the "Submit Team" stage, and for a team where the reserves are better than the actives you could have a popup warning.

Last edited by rburgh; 02-14-2020 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Extended the idea to a perhaps better implementation
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:58 AM   #2
dkgo
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Or just set up the game so people don't have incentive to lose, like every other game out there manages to do.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:00 PM   #3
Sipimi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rburgh View Post
Can you just set up the game to monitor the average card value of, say, the 20 lowest card value players on your active roster against the highest 20 card value players that you own that were not active for that game (checking both the reserve roster and deactivated list)? If so, you could then assign a team 1 point for every game they play where the inactives outrated the actives and simply refuse to relegate any team that has a score of, say, 5 or more for the season.

You could also do this proactively at the "Submit Team" stage, and for a team where the reserves are better than the actives you could have a popup warning.
I've used 69 Gwynn and Carew in Perfect over 90+ rated players on my roster and they performed brilliantly, both winning a batting title. So I don't think overall is a reliable indicator of tanking.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:01 PM   #4
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I've used 69 Gwynn and Carew in Perfect over 90+ rated players on my roster and they performed brilliantly, both winning a batting title. So I don't think overall is a reliable indicator of tanking.
Overall ratings would need to be more reflective of actual in game productivity for this anti-tanking plan to work effectively. 20 was better at scoring OVR than 19, but its still out of sync. High contact low OVR batters (like Gwynn and Carew), low movement high OVR pitchers, and players with high defensive ratings at premiere positions (See: Hemus, Solly) are evidence that Overall ratings still need work to be truly useful.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:11 PM   #5
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Create an alternative way to finance the game so that people don't get stuck in PTW Perfect whale leagues. Would a modest monthly subscription fee of around $2 be able to replace the current PTW system and still support the studio?
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:28 PM   #6
One Great Matrix
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People can do what they want with their teams.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:37 AM   #7
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The reason for my suggestion was that my gold league team recently faced a team for a 2 game series that was starting 90 Giancarlo Stanton and had 93 Goose Gossage as its closer. No one else in his active lineup had an OVR over 60, his highest OVR starter was 51, and the rest of his bullpen topped out in the low 60's. We swept them, and the second game writeup showed that the team had now lost 61 in a row.

Meanwhile, its bench had 19 diamond rated players and 58 golds. Relegating this team means that 29 unsuspecting customers in a Silver league next week are going to have to cope with a team whos average OVR is in the mid-90's. What fun for them! Or maybe, in two weeks, this team of ringers is going to be thrown in among an Iron league.

I can't really complain, for myself, since the PP's my team earned enabled me to complete the 2018 GG collection mission, and the Gold pack I was awarded gave me the 100 Cody Bellinger. And selling the card Bellinger replaced enabled me to buy the 98 Foxx.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:15 AM   #8
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@dkgo - unfortunately, that would mean eliminating the pro/rel aspect of the game entirely.

@sipimi - that's why I put it at an average of 20 - suppose you use a few bronze guys like Carew, Gwynn, and maybe Lavalliere and Kiermaier as defensive subs. They're each maybe 25 OVR below the average of a very strong team. So they collectively lower the average of the bottom 20 on your roster by 5 points.

Maybe adding a threshhold like 5 points or 10 points per man would be OH. The team that I am talking about would have had a differential of around 35 points per man. I just don't get your objection.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:56 AM   #9
One Great Matrix
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Ah...An obvious case.

OK...

For now, still one problem in my mind.

He's a customer as well.

Well, they do modify the rules from time to time...so perhaps you can post this somewhere else as well in case you want to make sure it makes it to a developer...with careful explanation/wording rather than just roughly what you want without the why.
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:10 PM   #10
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By far, the BEST way to stop tanking is to make the Perfect Level "competitive". If teams weren't finding themselves 40+ games out after finally reaching Perfect, they wouldn't be tanking. Reduce the number of teams in Perfect to a level they can actually compete with each other. The rest of us can compete at Diamond and Gold.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:14 PM   #11
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@dkgo - unfortunately, that would mean eliminating the pro/rel aspect of the game entirely.
I am a huge supporter of that.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:26 PM   #12
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People can do what they want with their teams.

I want to bat 10 guys, I want to carry 30 guys on the roster.

There are rules in the game, just like in society. Yes, as a free man I can do what I want, under the rules. I can't beat my wife senseless because I'm in a bad mood and I can't rob the guy one house over because I want his stuff.


While I will say the terms of service are sometimes vague, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what they mean.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:14 PM   #13
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By far, the BEST way to stop tanking is to make the Perfect Level "competitive". If teams weren't finding themselves 40+ games out after finally reaching Perfect, they wouldn't be tanking. Reduce the number of teams in Perfect to a level they can actually compete with each other. The rest of us can compete at Diamond and Gold.
I'm less sympathetic with this point of view since I started to pay attention to my "B" team. 4 times relegated from Perfect, the 5th time is the charm. Last week winning 107 games and this week should easily surpass that while having a team with 12-13 golds and 37+ games ahead of the 2nd place team with its 8 perfects and 17 diamonds. I would still have to get past the 13-time perfect champion Moline in the playoffs, but Collingwood has lost to worse teams than my "B" team. Maybe I should be upset by the team in the other league who has a very suspicious "tanking" record with a long tenure in iron and bronze followed by a rocket launch to perfect in recent weeks. This team found a way to score 1000+ runs while giving up just as many. One season in bronze it was 1282 runs scored while giving up 1275 runs. I sure would like to see that roster.
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:01 AM   #14
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Zero Tolerance

A Zero Tolerance policy might help discourage tanking. All players would be warned at the time of purchase. If caught tanking once, they would be banned. Sending a warning email gives tankers to much leeway. They can tank until warned and then stop. IMHO current policy is too lenient.
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:32 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=HRBaker;4587211]By far, the BEST way to stop tanking is to make the Perfect Level "competitive". If teams weren't finding themselves 40+ games out after finally reaching Perfect, they wouldn't be tanking. Reduce the number of teams in Perfect to a level they can actually compete with each other. The rest of us can compete at Diamond and Gold.[/QUOTE

agreed.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:00 AM   #16
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A Zero Tolerance policy might help discourage tanking. All players would be warned at the time of purchase. If caught tanking once, they would be banned. Sending a warning email gives tankers to much leeway. They can tank until warned and then stop. IMHO current policy is too lenient.
There's a 100% chance I never buy OOTP again if this happens.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:01 AM   #17
rburgh
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I didn't think my suggested remedy was punitive

The only penalty was that, for obvious tanking, you wouldn't get relegated. Since the purpose of tanking IS to get relegated, it would stop.


If you want to play Carew and Gwynn at higher levels, you have two alternatives.


1. Accept the fact that you won't be relegated.


2. Sell off enough of your moderately valuable bench players so that your active bottom 20 is better on average than your inactive top 20.


I think the only people this would have a big effect on are the card collections people who eventually end up with a lot of cards they can't sell off.


I think the only sensible way to get rid of tanking is to promote only champs, or maybe champs and finalists, and relegate no one ever. But eventually they would end up with hundreds of teams in perfect hell; unable to be competitive and never relegated.


I have a team in perfect right now that won 99 games and a ring in a diamond league last week. It's 26-81.


Perhaps a couple of additional levels on the ladder would make sense. Platinum, Emerald, Ruby, Zircon, - you name it.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:20 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by funseeker View Post
A Zero Tolerance policy might help discourage tanking. All players would be warned at the time of purchase. If caught tanking once, they would be banned. Sending a warning email gives tankers to much leeway. They can tank until warned and then stop. IMHO current policy is too lenient.
No, I do not agree. Many people may not even be aware that tanking is against the rules, because they never read them. I think one warning email is fine.

In PT 21 we will have better monitoring, different punishments (i.e. no access to the AH for a period of time) and more safeguards in general, so this is an area where we will definitely improve.

Last edited by Markus Heinsohn; 02-21-2020 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:22 AM   #19
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By far, the BEST way to stop tanking is to make the Perfect Level "competitive". If teams weren't finding themselves 40+ games out after finally reaching Perfect, they wouldn't be tanking. Reduce the number of teams in Perfect to a level they can actually compete with each other. The rest of us can compete at Diamond and Gold.
We will have a different league system in PT 21. Stay tuned for the announcement later today
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:05 AM   #20
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Oh, a different league system in '21?

Here's hoping OOTP saw my "X" number of Perfect Titles required for a Champions League, by which relegation does not apply in the CL, and therefore, any tanking would be readily noticeable for well qualified and proven teams. (Or "X" Diamond Titles required to move into Perfect League).
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