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Old 04-01-2003, 06:01 PM   #21
autarkis33
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The problem with getting new GM's is that there is no perfect screening process. Of the original 16 owners in the BPLA, 3 have quit, and one has been let go. I tried to be completely open in accepting owners when the league started, and not too restricting. I didn't want to be one of those "elite" commishes that thinks his league is so great that no one but God himself need apply. But in being lenient, I had one GM that didn't even bother reading the rules, was rude to myself and the other owners, and made me have to forcibly remove a person from the league, something I never wanted to do.

Of the three owners that quit, 2 seemed to have a lot of potential, but because of time constraints, were not able to continue.

Since the start of the league, I have replaced every owner with someone who either participates heavily in another league or comes recommended from other league members.

Recommendations seem to work great because the GM's that care about your league will bring in good GM's from their other league or people they know will only be the best owners. You should give this route a try (if you haven't already).

PS - TotalNirvana - you were one of the good potential owners that had to leave to time constraints. Sorry to have you go.
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Old 04-01-2003, 06:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by autarkis33
Recommendations seem to work great because the GM's that care about your league will bring in good GM's from their other league or people they know will only be the best owners. You should give this route a try (if you haven't already).
I don't go this route because I have has bad memories doing these things, so I try to avoid recommendations as much as possible
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Old 04-01-2003, 06:19 PM   #23
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The other thing I notice too much of, is people that have this "great" idea for a league, but don't want to do any of the work to create the league. All they want is someone else to design the site, the league, the rules, and basically run the league while they take credit as commish and league creator.

Or they just want 12 order ID's.
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Old 04-01-2003, 06:28 PM   #24
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I think the problem is that people don't realize the time committment involved in running an online league effectively.
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Old 04-01-2003, 06:30 PM   #25
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You know, I probably put as much time into my two OOTP leagues that I run as I do working per week.

I think I have an idea of how much time it takes to run a league effectively.

The frustrating part is when you can't get X amount of owners to put in the effort it takes to run a league effectively.

I don't think the problem with any of the leagues I mentioned is the Commish.
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Old 04-01-2003, 06:40 PM   #26
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I do agree that most of the problem with league is inactive owners. I was just stating that all the "I have the great idea for a league, alien races from all the sci-fi movies throughout history, I just need someone to design a site, find 32 owners and pretty much tell me what to do" leagues seem to be posted all too often.

I think if someone is going to commish a league, they need to know all the ins and outs of the game, and have the ability to run everything effectively.

Not saying that anyone who doesn't design their own sites is a bad commish (I know several that have a league-site designer), just commenting about those people that post the ideas, wanting someone else to do all the work, while they take all the credit.
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:01 PM   #27
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Well you generally see this whenever a new version comes out, people new to the game get the idea to start an online league and then it is usually gone within a couple of months because they don't realize the enormous amount of time it takes to run a league. I used to run a league using BBpro and I would say on sim days in probably took about 3 hours of my time (writing the headlines for the league, inputing all the lineups, etc) and probably worked on the league for a week whenever I was preparing the draft since I always tried to put in "real" amateur players.
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by autarkis33
"I have the great idea for a league, alien races from all the sci-fi movies throughout history
I'm in! I've got 6 friends who want to join too.
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:28 PM   #29
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births

When v4 came out last year, there was soon a ‘Golden Age’ of league births, which seemed to last from mid-March to mid-May. I don’t know how many of the current well-established leagues started then, but it seemed to me at the time that a lot of good ones did. I haven’t seen that this year, I think because a lot more leagues have carried over into v5 than carried from v3 to v4.
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:55 PM   #30
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Re: births

Quote:
Originally posted by satchel
When v4 came out last year, there was soon a ‘Golden Age’ of league births, which seemed to last from mid-March to mid-May. I don’t know how many of the current well-established leagues started then, but it seemed to me at the time that a lot of good ones did. I haven’t seen that this year, I think because a lot more leagues have carried over into v5 than carried from v3 to v4.
Satch, well said. That's what I was alluding to as well.
There were a number of quality leagues that started then and many of them are still around and doing well. That was the time period of the birth of the United States Baseball Association, which is chugging along very nicely. The last time the USBA was advertising for team owners was during the initial league set-up, four seasons ago! The initial group was so fantastic that they use each other for inspiration, bounce ideas off of one another, and the participation becomes contagious. When you see five team owners collaborate to put together their version of "Around the Horn" or two owners put together a "Pardon the Interruption" style weekly article, you know you've got a special group! Many of the original team owners/GMs were joining their first OOTP online league when the USBA formed, which made a positive difference since there were none of the “I’m in 8 leagues so you’ll never hear from me” type owners.
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Old 04-01-2003, 08:46 PM   #31
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Here are just some random thoughts I have...

I think that there are some overrated league out there right now that doesn't deserve the attention that it has (ping - crackpott). I don't mean this in any hard feelings whatsoever, but that is what I think.

I was looking over some FHL leagues the other day, ran into one, named C.L.U.T.C.H. (sorry, I don't have the link with me right now) I read over the rules, and read something about GMs carrying their own weight. It pretty much states that each GM of the league must be a part of a different committee. For example, there is one that writes articles, there is one that recruts GMs, things like that. This now surprised me alot. I talked to the commissioner of the league, and he said he hass had minimal turnove, which surprised me alot. After looking at everything, IMO, it could be the greatest online sim league on the internet right now.

Now, after reading the rules, and talking to the commissioner, I was pondering "Should I enforce this into the USBL"? I thoughts then was no, no one would buy it, everyone would quit, but after thinking about it for a few more, I decided if I do put this into the league, it would equal more activity, much better articles, and less turnover because they would be pretty much hooked to the league...

I have tossed around the idea of adding in the USBL fictional players into the league, to try to blend in the fictional and real aspect of online league play in the USBL. I am hoping by doing this, it could attract fictional league GMs as well as real league GMs

Feel free to comment
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Old 04-01-2003, 08:48 PM   #32
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It's like in ORB, we have a great Participation Points system. Incorporated the same system in Monty Brewster- two different results.

ORB- a lot of turnover, great owner activity among a minority of owners.

MBBA- not much turnover, great owner activity across the board.

It's a fickle business!
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Old 04-01-2003, 09:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by GBC Chairman
It's like in ORB, we have a great Participation Points system. Incorporated the same system in Monty Brewster- two different results.

ORB- a lot of turnover, great owner activity among a minority of owners.

MBBA- not much turnover, great owner activity across the board.

It's a fickle business!
Also note that they might not have the same owners in both leagues
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Old 04-01-2003, 09:55 PM   #34
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We seem to be working on that though

I think the inherent thing that makes me think twice about realistic leagues (either historical or today) is that there are certain preconcieved notions about how certain things should turn out. Such and such player should be hitting better than they did, why isn't this pitcher dominating like he did in real life, etc. Fictional leagues allows you to set aside that potential bias.

Of course, I also realize that some people do like to see if the player repeats their past effort.
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Old 04-01-2003, 10:48 PM   #35
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I think Sporr's onto something with PowWeb.com!
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Old 04-01-2003, 11:20 PM   #36
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I want to echo what LivnLegend said. The Maelstrom also opened its doors around the time that OOTP4 came out. I guess we are one of the lucky modern day leagues that has lasted and has a great ownership base.

The key is to reward extra participation, but don't force it. On the other hand, you have to set some pretty high expectations and hold people to them. The primary thing that we expect is that people keep us up to date when they are going to be away for a while.

It helps if you have a league that has features that can stand out from other leagues. There are so many leagues out there that it really helps to have something that separates your league from others. If you have a good hook and keep things interesting, then you should have no problem finding owners and keeping them.

By the way Driver 8, I really do recommend Powweb. And I have no connection with them other than having our site hosted there.
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Old 04-01-2003, 11:22 PM   #37
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By the way Driver 8, I really do recommend Powweb. And I have no connection with them other than having our site hosted there.
And I wasn't being facetious in the least. I saw your post earlier today and dropped PowWeb an e-mail to see about converting my domain over. They look awesome.
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Old 04-01-2003, 11:25 PM   #38
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And I wasn't being facetious in the least. I saw your post earlier today and dropped PowWeb an e-mail to see about converting my domain over. They look awesome.
If you look around, you'll find other members that will also give you testimonials on them if you need it.
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Old 04-01-2003, 11:52 PM   #39
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Originally posted by sporr
The key is to reward extra participation, but don't force it. On the other hand, you have to set some pretty high expectations and hold people to them. The primary thing that we expect is that people keep us up to date when they are going to be away for a while.

It helps if you have a league that has features that can stand out from other leagues. There are so many leagues out there that it really helps to have something that separates your league from others. If you have a good hook and keep things interesting, then you should have no problem finding owners and keeping them.
To your first comment above, I have tried this before in the first season, and I didn't get much activity at all, message board, or writing. To me, it's not worth it if no one is willing to do the job right, let alone doing the job at all...

To your second comment above, I have noticed that leagues has pretty much taken every idea and features ever possible, and I don't wanna add things to the league without actually "stealing" them, and end up getting boring.

I would love to keep this league going, but if no one wants to take the time to step up and help out the league, then why even run it? Thats how I look at it. I don't wanna run a league where no one is willing to step up and help out the league. I have made several posts on the message board. Sent out several e-mails, asking if anyone wants to write articles, help keep the site fresh, but no one wishes to step up.

I know, and many can agree with me that I am a very great owner. I try to show up to league events, if not, I try to let my commissioner know that I may not be around. I send in my expimps depending on the sims. I try to write articles. I spend mutiple hours on my team alone, only problem is, I never won a league championship. I'm not tring to sell myself a GM, but thats me as a GM. I just really have never have found the time to be in a league and committ to a league because I'm running a league myself...

Fire away.
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Old 04-02-2003, 12:12 AM   #40
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The BPLA originally had no rules for participation. The GM's that exported every sim, posted articles, took an active interest in their team and the league received nothing more than a pat on the back. The GM's that did nothing, well, just did nothing.

In the off-season, I brought in a point based system that now rewards the owners that go the extra mile, and really only penalizes owners that do absolutely nothing.

The system has been in place officially for only a week and already has had an amazing impact on those in the league. No one is doing what they do solely for reward, but I feel that they became aware how committed I am, and the rest of the league is, and have stepped up a notch - and spring training hasn't even begun.

No one has complained about the system, every owner that has given me feedback has sung praises about it.

And TotalNirvana, do you mean that no one has come forward from outside the league and answered your previous posts about adding things to the league or are you commenting about your GM's not coming forward to enhance the league? If it has to do with outsiders coming in, I have myself found it hard to find people to work for a league in which they don't own a team. But if its your GMs that aren't willing to make the league better, you really need to question whether they belong in the league at all.
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