Too many leagues? Too many non-committed owners? - Page 3

Total Nirvana · 01-31-2003, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Batter UP
See, there you go. You asked for honest advice but I don't think you really want to hear it. No one really cares about him except a few whack jobs. Is that who you want to be associated with?

You mentioned Nirvana about how much Kurt Cobain was crap. I gave you the honest facts.

Look, the last thing I wanna do is turn this into a flaming war. I simply want advice to help out the league. I should be able to have a Kurt Coban amimation avatar. (Actually, I have been looking into switching my avatar) All I want is a good league to run, 20 owners who will do their job, and a good reputation whatever I do. I wanna get help for my league, the USBL. Thats why I have posted here om this thread. Now, I wanna stop the flaming here. We can talk about this later on another time, but right now isnt the right time.

autarkis33 · 01-31-2003, 01:43 AM

I think that 50 percent of the problem in finding GMs stems from the fact that in actuality, we are all anonymous users. We may know each others names, but we really know nothing about each other. The BPLA is a brand new, 16-team league that has been in existence for roughly a month. I think about three maybe four of my owners can tell you more than my first name. It isn't their fault, its just the way of the Net.

But in this anonymity, assumptions arise, and the are likely always bad assumptions.

Take the BPLA site for example. My understanding of website design pretty much ends at HTML. I think it looks decent, not great, but decent. It is easy to navigate and not harsh on the eyes. Yet I would bet that because most of you don't see a super-professional looking design, you assume I am some punk kid that happens to know HTML or some idiot that can't do any better. I will tell you now I a neither. Good league running skills do not come from website designing skills. They originate from creativity and dedication.

You see the tripod hosting. You see someone that doesn't feel like ponying up 6 bucks a month to host a better site. You assume I am cheap and that I don't have the dedication to run a quaility site or league. I don't think that willingness to spend money denotes a good league. The league is ran for the owners' benefits as much as the commissioner's. Do the commissioner assume because the players will not submit a 6 dollar a month entry fee that they are not commited to the success of their team?

Grammar and spelling I agree with to a point, but that has more to do with my profession than anything else. I loathe both bad grammar and mispelling, but not everyone is perfect. I can't code VBScript, you can't spell. So what. If the league site is proofread and everything sounds good, then I don't see the problem. Not everyone is as anal about the spelling in their posts as us.

And I really don't see what the h*** the avatar has anything to do with it. If you want to get down to it, some avatars make their poster look like sexist pigs, boring drolls, or someone who just can't let go of the glory days of their baseball playing youth (look to your left).

I may not be the world's best commissioner, I may not be any good at all. But without simming a single game, I have nearly a full league of happy, interested owners.

PS. Attacking someones musical tastes is one of the most ignorant things a person can do. No offense, but that is downright childish.

holyroller · 01-31-2003, 01:43 AM

You are wasting your time. BatterUP's whole deal is making really lame "flames" while passing himself off as a comedic genius. If only anyone thought he was funny.

Total Nirvana · 01-31-2003, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
You are wasting your time. BatterUP's whole deal is making really lame "flames" while passing himself off as a comedic genius. If only anyone thought he was funny.

I can understand that, but if someone tries to attack my favorite band, I have to respond. I can understand sarcasm, or just saying, I don't like that band. That is understandable, and respectful, but calling a band crap, let alone that I like the band because of their music, not because one member of that band took drugs and shot his own head off, thinking that I wanna be like him. I agree with what autarkis33 had to say about offending someone because of the music he/she listens to.

Aussie Mark · 01-31-2003, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Total Nirvana
I simply want advice to help out the league

Here's a suggestion that might help.

The USBL doesn't appear to be listed at any of the main OOTP league sites, which may mean that it isn't well known among the more active online leaguers out there. In fact, to find the league website I had to search all your posts for posts that have USBL in the subject, and I then had to read 6 or 7 messages until I found one that had the league URL included. Most prospective GMs would give up much quicker than that. Even your posts announcing vacancies didn't have a link to the league website.

And lose the popups :-)

Goody · 01-31-2003, 02:41 AM

I like Nirvana. Grew up with their music.

Southpark gets a little bit annoying but as far as tv goes its entertaining and more intelligent than most of what you can find, sadly. I love Trey Parker's movies.

I also think there's nothing wrong with doing drugs and blowing your own head off. I mean its your own head right?

That said, as far as league commissioning goes I probably would not check out a league that is run by someone a Southpark avatar and a fanboy handle unless they were very well spoken in their posting on the boards.

darkhorse · 01-31-2003, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Portlander
I probably would not check out a league that is run by someone a Southpark avatar

So true, a proper avatar commands, nay compels, respect from your peers.

autarkis33 · 01-31-2003, 03:00 AM

Screw what people say in the posts. The post is just for talking, that's it. If the person puts a link to there site up and it looks good, they put some time into it. That is dedication right there. I would sooner join a league where the commissioner has Beavis as his avatar with the handle of IWannaFatherBritneySpearsChild, who couldn't even spell "fish," if their league rules and site were well planned and organized. I would not join a league created by the most eloquent speaker, if all they did is upload the HTML files from the game. I can do that in 5 minutes and spend the rest of my week posting about the grammatical inadequecies of my fellow OOTP gamers. Doesn't make my league good.

All I am saying is forget the posts here. If someone posts a league that sounds interesting, check it out. The worst that happens is you waste minutes of you time. Or maybe you find the next great OOTP league.

MannyTrillo · 01-31-2003, 03:10 AM

It's not like people see this stuff and assume that the commish is crappy... it's just that there are so many other options out there, that even if you see something that suggests that the commish *might* be crappy, why not just join another league?

To be honest, band name in the handle, cartoon avatar, typos in the posts = bad signs, so why not join a league without any bad signs? None of which is to say that you aren't a great commish who is running a great league- but if you're having trouble finding owners, it might be because those little "first impression" things tend to make people look elsewhere.

autarkis33 · 01-31-2003, 03:22 AM

But if commishes based their opinion on all prospective owners from the boards a lot of you would never get into leagues. I could say that those of you that knock other poster are the type that would flame fellow GM's so you can't be in my league. I could say that you don't post here enough so you won't be active enough so you can't be in my league.

It would be really unfair and self-defeating for commishes to discriminate based on something as insignificant as forum posts to decide on potential GM's. That is why we ask for information from you, so we can gauge whether or not you would be a decent owner, not go look at the OOTP message board to see if you can spell.

wireman · 01-31-2003, 03:26 AM

I'm in too many leagues; I've got a job and a life and four teams. Not enough time.

I think I might be a super GM if I were only in one league, but, alas, I love all my teams and I just have to muddle through as well as I can.

But if it got to the point that I started missing exports, I think it would be time to cut back.

Are there too many leagues? It's a free market, kind of a self-policing mechanism. The good leagues live, the bad leagues die. Nothing wrong with that.

BTW: autarkis33, do you really loathe "mispelling"?

autarkis33 · 01-31-2003, 03:34 AM

Don't I look like the complete horse's a** now. Irony is a heavy handed fist to be socked in the groin by. Good play!

wireman · 01-31-2003, 04:00 AM

Nah. Happens to the best of us (and me too). But it gave me a chuckle.

asamford · 01-31-2003, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Total Nirvana
amimation avatar. (Actually, I have...

whether or not it was a typo, amimation is my new favorite word.

Michael Xavier · 01-31-2003, 05:00 AM

We should have a thread where someone asks what they think is the typical trend of any enlightened thread, and see if that one goes from a discourse on the issue to a sacking of some guy who can't spell.

Aussie Mark · 01-31-2003, 06:26 AM

Andy (Samford), thanks for the link - you play Ozzy Osbourne in a Sabbath tribute band - f'ken awesome !

I also like Nirvana, have 4 or 5 of their CDs, but puke when people claim Cobain is a great guitarist. But that's just my opinion.

Getting back to leagues/avatars/handles etc, I can live with cartoon character avatars, but I will never join a league where there are more than 10% of GMs with AOL email addresses or where there are more than 2 owners with an email address in the format of playername.dateofbirth@email.address (eg. ARod85@abc.com) or email addresses that feature the words "rools" or "rocks" (eg BondsRools@xyz.com)

Red Blow · 01-31-2003, 10:12 AM

Presentation and perception are important. Icons, screen names, grammar, even tone are all little things. The 'Net is anonymous. All anyone has to go on, initially, is what they see. Crackpott, I think, is a good example of someone that fights this. I've seen his website, I've perused the FBBL message board, I've even discussed things with him via IM. He's smart, creative and mature for his years. The Laura Prepon thing turns off some of the older, more stable crowd. Well, maybe not "turn off", but turns away. Some might not look past the icon. Others might check the link, but not look past the image of her on the main page. Those that do not dig are missing out on what appears to be a very solid, very well-run league.

The same may be true for the USBL. One look and you see Nirvana and South Park. Neither are bad in themselves, but remember who your client is. As has been pointed out, anyone trying to recruit needs a link to the website in their signature.

Reputation means a lot, but when you are new to the boards, you go on what you see.

Total Nirvana · 01-31-2003, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aussie Mark
Here's a suggestion that might help.

The USBL doesn't appear to be listed at any of the main OOTP league sites, which may mean that it isn't well known among the more active online leaguers out there. In fact, to find the league website I had to search all your posts for posts that have USBL in the subject, and I then had to read 6 or 7 messages until I found one that had the league URL included. Most prospective GMs would give up much quicker than that. Even your posts announcing vacancies didn't have a link to the league website.

And lose the popups :-)

Normally I would say that my league site is in my sig. It is no longer in my sig, so I would have to link them in the post itself.

as for the pop-ups, I have been tring to get rid of about two months now. The site was originally linked from a sportplanet site, and I guess the pop-ups came with them when I downloaded it

Total Nirvana · 01-31-2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Blow
Those that do not dig are missing out on what appears to be a very solid, very well-run league.

Only if I had enough time, I would of drove the Texas Rangers to the World Series

satchel · 01-31-2003, 11:30 AM

TN, I don’t think your league has any more trouble getting people than any other league. It’s just easy to feel that way. When you’re sitting there waiting for prospective owners to contact you, it can feel like no one is doing it or that it’s taking forever. And then you look at people answering other leagues’ posts, and you wonder what’s going on. But objectively, I bet your posts for applicants probably get as many responses as other equivalent leagues. A league’s characteristics and reputation affect the number people it draws, but many owners aren’t choosy, or are unaware of a league’s rep and jump in to whatever seems best at the moment. I doubt if many people are looking at ads for your league, and then at others right next to it, and scorning yours for the sake of the others.

01-31-2003, 01:43 AM	#42
autarkis33 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 247	I think that 50 percent of the problem in finding GMs stems from the fact that in actuality, we are all anonymous users. We may know each others names, but we really know nothing about each other. The BPLA is a brand new, 16-team league that has been in existence for roughly a month. I think about three maybe four of my owners can tell you more than my first name. It isn't their fault, its just the way of the Net. But in this anonymity, assumptions arise, and the are likely always bad assumptions. Take the BPLA site for example. My understanding of website design pretty much ends at HTML. I think it looks decent, not great, but decent. It is easy to navigate and not harsh on the eyes. Yet I would bet that because most of you don't see a super-professional looking design, you assume I am some punk kid that happens to know HTML or some idiot that can't do any better. I will tell you now I a neither. Good league running skills do not come from website designing skills. They originate from creativity and dedication. You see the tripod hosting. You see someone that doesn't feel like ponying up 6 bucks a month to host a better site. You assume I am cheap and that I don't have the dedication to run a quaility site or league. I don't think that willingness to spend money denotes a good league. The league is ran for the owners' benefits as much as the commissioner's. Do the commissioner assume because the players will not submit a 6 dollar a month entry fee that they are not commited to the success of their team? Grammar and spelling I agree with to a point, but that has more to do with my profession than anything else. I loathe both bad grammar and mispelling, but not everyone is perfect. I can't code VBScript, you can't spell. So what. If the league site is proofread and everything sounds good, then I don't see the problem. Not everyone is as anal about the spelling in their posts as us. And I really don't see what the h*** the avatar has anything to do with it. If you want to get down to it, some avatars make their poster look like sexist pigs, boring drolls, or someone who just can't let go of the glory days of their baseball playing youth (look to your left). I may not be the world's best commissioner, I may not be any good at all. But without simming a single game, I have nearly a full league of happy, interested owners. PS. Attacking someones musical tastes is one of the most ignorant things a person can do. No offense, but that is downright childish. __________________ "I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell" Commissioner of the <A HREF="http://www.bpla-ootp.com">BPLA</A> GM of the Iowa Crop Circles in <A HREF="http://www.dpbl.net/potd">POTD</A> Manager of the Lennongrad Coleopteras in <A HREF="http://beta.simleagues.com">Beta Baseball</A> Only HOF Leftfielder in LBL - 2nd career AVG, 3B's and SB's - 3rd in Hits and HR's

01-31-2003, 01:43 AM	#43
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	You are wasting your time. BatterUP's whole deal is making really lame "flames" while passing himself off as a comedic genius. If only anyone thought he was funny. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

01-31-2003, 02:41 AM	#46
Goody Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Korea Posts: 3,530	I like Nirvana. Grew up with their music. Southpark gets a little bit annoying but as far as tv goes its entertaining and more intelligent than most of what you can find, sadly. I love Trey Parker's movies. I also think there's nothing wrong with doing drugs and blowing your own head off. I mean its your own head right? That said, as far as league commissioning goes I probably would not check out a league that is run by someone a Southpark avatar and a fanboy handle unless they were very well spoken in their posting on the boards. __________________ In the past: Laseron Baseball Association creator. Present: I am Rezulm on PT and OOTP Discord. Future: I wish it was the past.

01-31-2003, 03:00 AM	#48
autarkis33 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 247	Screw what people say in the posts. The post is just for talking, that's it. If the person puts a link to there site up and it looks good, they put some time into it. That is dedication right there. I would sooner join a league where the commissioner has Beavis as his avatar with the handle of IWannaFatherBritneySpearsChild, who couldn't even spell "fish," if their league rules and site were well planned and organized. I would not join a league created by the most eloquent speaker, if all they did is upload the HTML files from the game. I can do that in 5 minutes and spend the rest of my week posting about the grammatical inadequecies of my fellow OOTP gamers. Doesn't make my league good. All I am saying is forget the posts here. If someone posts a league that sounds interesting, check it out. The worst that happens is you waste minutes of you time. Or maybe you find the next great OOTP league. __________________ "I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell" Commissioner of the <A HREF="http://www.bpla-ootp.com">BPLA</A> GM of the Iowa Crop Circles in <A HREF="http://www.dpbl.net/potd">POTD</A> Manager of the Lennongrad Coleopteras in <A HREF="http://beta.simleagues.com">Beta Baseball</A> Only HOF Leftfielder in LBL - 2nd career AVG, 3B's and SB's - 3rd in Hits and HR's

01-31-2003, 03:10 AM	#49
MannyTrillo All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 664	It's not like people see this stuff and assume that the commish is crappy... it's just that there are so many other options out there, that even if you see something that suggests that the commish might be crappy, why not just join another league? To be honest, band name in the handle, cartoon avatar, typos in the posts = bad signs, so why not join a league without any bad signs? None of which is to say that you aren't a great commish who is running a great league- but if you're having trouble finding owners, it might be because those little "first impression" things tend to make people look elsewhere. __________________ Poster emeritus "Not butchery, dining!!" obt sk cmh ct President, A-1 Aces OT Posting Club Click here to join

01-31-2003, 03:22 AM	#50
autarkis33 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 247	But if commishes based their opinion on all prospective owners from the boards a lot of you would never get into leagues. I could say that those of you that knock other poster are the type that would flame fellow GM's so you can't be in my league. I could say that you don't post here enough so you won't be active enough so you can't be in my league. It would be really unfair and self-defeating for commishes to discriminate based on something as insignificant as forum posts to decide on potential GM's. That is why we ask for information from you, so we can gauge whether or not you would be a decent owner, not go look at the OOTP message board to see if you can spell. __________________ "I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell" Commissioner of the <A HREF="http://www.bpla-ootp.com">BPLA</A> GM of the Iowa Crop Circles in <A HREF="http://www.dpbl.net/potd">POTD</A> Manager of the Lennongrad Coleopteras in <A HREF="http://beta.simleagues.com">Beta Baseball</A> Only HOF Leftfielder in LBL - 2nd career AVG, 3B's and SB's - 3rd in Hits and HR's

01-31-2003, 03:26 AM	#51
wireman All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Harrisonburg VA Posts: 765	I'm in too many leagues; I've got a job and a life and four teams. Not enough time. I think I might be a super GM if I were only in one league, but, alas, I love all my teams and I just have to muddle through as well as I can. But if it got to the point that I started missing exports, I think it would be time to cut back. Are there too many leagues? It's a free market, kind of a self-policing mechanism. The good leagues live, the bad leagues die. Nothing wrong with that. BTW: autarkis33, do you really loathe "mispelling"? __________________ "Sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't."

01-31-2003, 03:34 AM	#52
autarkis33 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 247	Don't I look like the complete horse's a** now. Irony is a heavy handed fist to be socked in the groin by. Good play! __________________ "I'm not crazy, I'm just a little unwell" Commissioner of the <A HREF="http://www.bpla-ootp.com">BPLA</A> GM of the Iowa Crop Circles in <A HREF="http://www.dpbl.net/potd">POTD</A> Manager of the Lennongrad Coleopteras in <A HREF="http://beta.simleagues.com">Beta Baseball</A> Only HOF Leftfielder in LBL - 2nd career AVG, 3B's and SB's - 3rd in Hits and HR's

01-31-2003, 04:00 AM	#53
wireman All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Harrisonburg VA Posts: 765	Nah. Happens to the best of us (and me too). But it gave me a chuckle. __________________ "Sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't."

01-31-2003, 05:00 AM	#55
Michael Xavier Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 454	We should have a thread where someone asks what they think is the typical trend of any enlightened thread, and see if that one goes from a discourse on the issue to a sacking of some guy who can't spell.

01-31-2003, 06:26 AM	#56
Aussie Mark Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Downunder Posts: 489	Andy (Samford), thanks for the link - you play Ozzy Osbourne in a Sabbath tribute band - f'ken awesome ! I also like Nirvana, have 4 or 5 of their CDs, but puke when people claim Cobain is a great guitarist. But that's just my opinion. Getting back to leagues/avatars/handles etc, I can live with cartoon character avatars, but I will never join a league where there are more than 10% of GMs with AOL email addresses or where there are more than 2 owners with an email address in the format of playername.dateofbirth@email.address (eg. ARod85@abc.com) or email addresses that feature the words "rools" or "rocks" (eg BondsRools@xyz.com) __________________ Cheers Mark

01-31-2003, 10:12 AM	#57
Red Blow Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 404	Presentation and perception are important. Icons, screen names, grammar, even tone are all little things. The 'Net is anonymous. All anyone has to go on, initially, is what they see. Crackpott, I think, is a good example of someone that fights this. I've seen his website, I've perused the FBBL message board, I've even discussed things with him via IM. He's smart, creative and mature for his years. The Laura Prepon thing turns off some of the older, more stable crowd. Well, maybe not "turn off", but turns away. Some might not look past the icon. Others might check the link, but not look past the image of her on the main page. Those that do not dig are missing out on what appears to be a very solid, very well-run league. The same may be true for the USBL. One look and you see Nirvana and South Park. Neither are bad in themselves, but remember who your client is. As has been pointed out, anyone trying to recruit needs a link to the website in their signature. Reputation means a lot, but when you are new to the boards, you go on what you see. __________________ http://www.nobl.net This is your father's league.

01-31-2003, 11:30 AM	#60
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith AR Posts: 2,681	TN, I don’t think your league has any more trouble getting people than any other league. It’s just easy to feel that way. When you’re sitting there waiting for prospective owners to contact you, it can feel like no one is doing it or that it’s taking forever. And then you look at people answering other leagues’ posts, and you wonder what’s going on. But objectively, I bet your posts for applicants probably get as many responses as other equivalent leagues. A league’s characteristics and reputation affect the number people it draws, but many owners aren’t choosy, or are unaware of a league’s rep and jump in to whatever seems best at the moment. I doubt if many people are looking at ads for your league, and then at others right next to it, and scorning yours for the sake of the others. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59