Claimed Fixed Issues - Look here for things to test!

[injury log]

Originally Posted by never_ends

Good point.

But until I read your post I was (speaking for myself as a OOTP player only) was totally unaware "If a player's arm, error or range fall below certain thresholds, they will lose a visible rating in the Profile at certain positions- this is an intentional design decision, as far as I understand, and not a bug" as this is not mentioned anywhere when you play the game.

So, the guy who wrote the TT and myself (at least) did not realize Ratings disappeared by intentional design. That is probably why the TT was generated, the guy simply didn't know why suddenly ratings disappeared.

Bottom line, you are 100% correct it is not a bug or issue as you have have explained why it happens.

Agreed- this should either be explained in OOTP documentation, or the position rating display should be adjusted so ratings don't disappear as readily. What I don't understand is why this came back 'cannot be reproduced', because it's both easily reproducible and intentional.

Phenomenal work on the testing, by the way- leave a couple for the rest of us!

[OakDragon]

Originally Posted by never_ends

Good point.

But until I read your post I was (speaking for myself as a OOTP player only) was totally unaware "If a player's arm, error or range fall below certain thresholds, they will lose a visible rating in the Profile at certain positions- this is an intentional design decision, as far as I understand, and not a bug" as this is not mentioned anywhere when you play the game.

So, the guy who wrote the TT and myself (at least) did not realize Ratings disappeared by intentional design. That is probably why the TT was generated, the guy simply didn't know why suddenly ratings disappeared.

Bottom line, you are 100% correct it is not a bug or issue as you have have explained why it happens.

I think if not a true bug, it should at least be considered a poor design decision that needs to be fixed. No player should be that poor or inexperienced at their primary position, especially not at a professional baseball level.

[never_ends]

Originally Posted by injury log

Phenomenal work on the testing, by the way- leave a couple for the rest of us!

It is just many of these issues I have experienced which makes it easy to understand certain TT's. Some I cannot (and will not do) like On-Line and Import, only Dial-Up available here in the rural... been there tried that.

What blows my mind about the issue we just went over is how easy you reproduced it !!!! Never even thought about trying what you made look so easy to do, ha.

And I think what OakDragon posted is right. I gave that player a multi-year contract and 3-4 months later couldn't use him because his ratings disappeared?

[battists]

Originally Posted by OakDragon

I think if not a true bug, it should at least be considered a poor design decision that needs to be fixed. No player should be that poor or inexperienced at their primary position, especially not at a professional baseball level.

I'm not sure I agree with that, totally. You see all the time players in the big leagues who are complete liabilities in the field. Pat Burrell comes to mind. He's been in the bigs for years and never seems to improve at all in the outfield (unlike Manny Ramirez, who went from being an adventure in left to more or less "Serviceable", IMHO). Burrell is a guy who is absolutely poor defensively at his primary position, forcing GMs to decide if he should be DHing, or if he hits well enough to compensate for his poor defense.

Now, I'm not saying it should be RAMPANT, just that I disagree that no player should be poor at their primary position.

I think we should look at some numbers and frequencies before we jump to any decisions on that one.

Thoughts?

[never_ends]

Originally Posted by battists

Now, I'm not saying it should be RAMPANT, just that I disagree that no player should be poor at their primary position.

I think we should look at some numbers and frequencies before we jump to any decisions on that one.

Thoughts?

Actually, I agree with what you wrote. The problem (for me) is that when the numbers disappeared my first thought was "game bug, OOTP is broken" and not what I should have thought which was "intentional design" becuase there was no way to know it was intentional design. Had the guy's numbers been listed as "1" defensively I would not have had that problem. But, when they totally disappeared I had no idea what was going on.

[never_ends]

TT #2633 (CTD quitting league creation wizard)
I - Cannot Reproduce

Note:
I tested this two ways. #1 was to click on "New Game" from the "OOTP Main Screen". #2 was to click on the drop down menu inside the game and click on "Create New Game". Obviously both ways will then bring up the "League Creation Wizard" feature. Next I clicked on "Cancel" on the Wizard and then clicked on "Cancel" at the bottom of the screen.

I then repeated this test 43 times. The game did not CTD.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by battists

Now, I'm not saying it should be RAMPANT, just that I disagree that no player should be poor at their primary position.

I think we should look at some numbers and frequencies before we jump to any decisions on that one.

Thoughts?

There's some confusion, at least for me, as to what does the position rating mean?
It's either how good he is at the position, or that he knows how to play the position.

A guy may be 20s in infield range, error, arm, and turning double plays.
Now this guy was created as a SS, and has never been anywhere else... so he's rated a 20 at SS, but no listing for 2B or 3B or 1B. Because he's never played there he doesn't know how to play the position. It makes no difference that his ratings show that he should easily be able to play all those positions, especially since he's a 20 at SS. So it certainly looks to be that it's telling me how well he knows how to play that position.

So if you have a guy that's a 10 arm and 3B, but he loses ability in his arm and it drops to a 1... he should still have some ability shown at 3B. It makes no difference that he's going to suck there, he knows how to play it because he's been playing it for 30 years. But it shows 0 at 3B now that his arm has dropped to low. So now it appears it's how good he is at the position.

At some point Pat Burrell probably knew how to play his position fairly well, he may still KNOW how to play it but he can't anymore. No idea, so I leave it to faith that OOTP isn't lying to me.

[never_ends]

TT #3627 (Illegal Number of Players Error)
I - Cannot Reproduce

Note:
Yes, I remember this one, but a long long time ago, I can't remember now exactly when the last time it occurred was. I can confirm I have simmed at least 1,000 seasons since the last time it occurred. Perhaps it was fixed in a previous patch release?

I respectfully take issue with the TT'ers description as the way I solved the problem was the way he says did not work (?). I simply filled the offending Minor League with players, then raised my Am Draft up to 15 or 20 picks or whatever it was and the issue vanished. It was not one of those end of the world type issues.

It is likely others testing can add feedback to this one as well. It seems like I remember many OOTP players posting about this one in the regular forum a few months ago.

[never_ends]

Originally Posted by tysok

At some point Pat Burrell probably knew how to play his position fairly well, he may still KNOW how to play it but he can't anymore. No idea, so I leave it to faith that OOTP isn't lying to me.

[never_ends]

TT #3720 (Players with Minor League Contracts Claimed Off of Waivers are Not Required to be Placed on the New Team's
40-Man Roster)
Regressed (?)

Note:
I hit a huge brick wall for hours on this one. It is either regressed or I am doing something wrong I cannot figure out.

If I claim players off the Waiver Wire (acting as Manager of a team) the players are placed on the active roster even after the season has started and the 25 player limit applies!?!? The DFA is empty. If I then try to advance a day I get a "Roster Exceeded Size Error". To make matters worse no other team claimed a player off the Waiver Wire for the year I monitored the Transactions Page despite the fact plenty of players were on the Waiver Wire time to time. To make matters worse still I do not remember having any of these problems the last time I actually managed a team prior to this new patch.

I tested this in 3 separate leagues all with the same result. I have no idea what to try next to solve this issue.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by never_ends

TT #3720 (Players with Minor League Contracts Claimed Off of Waivers are Not Required to be Placed on the New Team's
40-Man Roster)
Regressed (?)

Note:
I hit a huge brick wall for hours on this one. It is either regressed or I am doing something wrong I cannot figure out.

If I claim players off the Waiver Wire (acting as Manager of a team) the players are placed on the active roster even after the season has started and the 25 player limit applies!?!? The DFA is empty. If I then try to advance a day I get a "Roster Exceeded Size Error".

TT-3720: This definitely needs to be regressed. The logged issue was that some waiver claims do not need to be added to the 40-man roster; the fix adds them to the 25-man roster instead. They should be going to DFA, not the active roster, as noted in the TT description; this is how the game handles all other player acquisitions if the player concerned can't be assigned directly to the minor leagues.

Originally Posted by never_ends

To make matters worse no other team claimed a player off the Waiver Wire for the year I monitored the Transactions Page despite the fact plenty of players were on the Waiver Wire time to time.

The AI teams will still make waiver claims (I just put my best players through waivers, and one was claimed), though it does seem it occurs much less often in this patch.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by battists

I'm not sure I agree with that, totally. You see all the time players in the big leagues who are complete liabilities in the field. Pat Burrell comes to mind. He's been in the bigs for years and never seems to improve at all in the outfield (unlike Manny Ramirez, who went from being an adventure in left to more or less "Serviceable", IMHO). Burrell is a guy who is absolutely poor defensively at his primary position, forcing GMs to decide if he should be DHing, or if he hits well enough to compensate for his poor defense.

Now, I'm not saying it should be RAMPANT, just that I disagree that no player should be poor at their primary position.

I think we should look at some numbers and frequencies before we jump to any decisions on that one.

Thoughts?

A player should have a defensive rating at all positions all the time. It's really that simple. We can argue what that rating should be, but a manager can always put any player in any position, so a player should have a rating.

If we used the same logic for "hitter" as we do for "fielder" then we would have guys lose their "contact" rating whenever their power, avoidK, or babip rating fell below some standard. That's obviously nonsensical...just as it's nonsensical to lose a fielding rating and be completely "unable" to play it.

Ultimately, I would recommend just removing the overall position rating anyway, and let the individual (error, arm, range, dp) ratings stand on their own. To do this we would probably need to expose the "experience" level lest we force users to dig into the stats to see where a guy has actually played--problematic since some folks don't toggle historical fielding stats on I would guess.

Just my .02...

[RonCo]

We've been over this about a katrillion times, though...so I figure it won't change anytime in the near future.

[RonCo]

And, as far as being a liability in the field...anyone with an overall fielding rating of below average (say a "5" on a 10-point scale) should be considered a liability in the field. But they should still have a rating.

[Killebrew]

Originally Posted by OakDragon

I think if not a true bug, it should at least be considered a poor design decision that needs to be fixed. No player should be that poor or inexperienced at their primary position, especially not at a professional baseball level.

I agree - we sometimes see examples of highly rated defensive performers losing their displayed defensive position in a single sim. For online leagues this forces them to change any rules they have about displayed defensive positions, and for solo players it's just a plain strange thing to see in a game. I like the idea that the displayed defensive ratings are a combo of several sub ratings, but the arbitrary trigger numbers that allow players to completely lose their displayed defensive positions can hopefully be changed in future versions of the game.

[never_ends]

Originally Posted by injury log

TT-3720: This definitely needs to be regressed. The logged issue was that some waiver claims do not need to be added to the 40-man roster; the fix adds them to the 25-man roster instead. They should be going to DFA, not the active roster, as noted in the TT description; this is how the game handles all other player acquisitions if the player concerned can't be assigned directly to the minor leagues.



The AI teams will still make waiver claims (I just put my best players through waivers, and one was claimed), though it does seem it occurs much less often in this patch.

Thanks for confirming this! Very helpful as now I know for sure it wasn't me making a mistake somewhere and indeed the patch needs further work.

[never_ends]

TT #3675 (Reproducible Crash when attemtping to add more than one league to an existing league)
Reproduced
and
Regressed

Note:
This TT is correct, it seems to depend on which league you load.

Test:
I started a regular fictional league and dumped one Minor League (AAA) into it. Then I simmed one season and stopped the day after the playoffs ended. Next I went to the ol' League Wizard and added a Dominican Winter League. No problems. Next I loaded a Mexican Winter League. No problems. Next I loaded a Korean Baseball League. It crashed on the "generating logo's" screen just as the TT states.

Additional info: Just before it crashed apparently OOTP tried to access the internet as my Zone Alarm went off and asked me for permission. Once I convinced myself it was a legitimate request (I hope it was!) I clicked allow. A few seconds later the crash occurred. I mention this because I goofed around for perhaps 2 minutes verifying it was ok to allow OOTP to access the internet. No crash during that time, it crashed a few seconds after I clicked allow on Zone Alarm.

[never_ends]

TT #3675 (Continued)

Test:
I re-loaded the league and tried it again. This time I disconnected from the internet.

I simmed one season, 2 days after the playoffs were over I went to the "League Wizard" and this time added different leagues.

This time when I loaded the 3rd league Zone Alarm came up asking for permission to access the internet (which I wasn't hooked up to). I clicked deny and it instantly CTD.

It does appear to be "3rd league added" related somehow.

Why does OOTP want to access the internet after adding a 3rd league I wonder?

[Tony M]

Looking at that screen shot, it's not trying to access the internet - it says that OOTP is trying to launch Dr Watson which is the Windows error reporting program.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Nick0508

I'm the bearer of bad news again, at least it's nothing major.

TT #3584 - Houston Colt .45's not showing up correctly

Regressed

I concur with this. If you start a league in 1962, it imports the name properly. If you start before 1962, the game will add in the team incorrectly with the same error as before (City listed as Houston Colt).