Commissioners also running teams - your thoughts

[blmeanie]

I have a team as a commish. I impose some "house" rules on myself to totally block any questions about honesty.

1) free agency - I wait until day 15 or later (letting many get away unfortunately) for my team to bid at all.

2) lineups - I do my lineup changes/rotation changes immediately following the previous sim before any other lineups come back in. This is minor but again, I want my participation to be "blind" to what is going on around the league.

steve

[Specs]

Originally posted by MannyTrillo
I think a commish who owns a team is fine, but some discretion has to be exercised... people are generally much more willing to deal with the commish than with other owners, and the commish has to be careful not to take advantage of this in trading. I used to be in one league where this was a problem, and the league didn't last very long. Bottom line, the commish has to see the league as the top priority, and not take his team too seriously.

Jesus Christ I had to give up three of my top ten prospects to grab a 34 y.o. first baseman with a 3 in average! Are you sure about this?

[Recte44]

That's kinda B.S.

Here's a rule I tell everyone in all of my leagues: "If you don't like a trade, say no. No one is holding a gun to your head."

[Total Nirvana]

My opinion... A commissioner running a team I think it no problem at all. I used to see it in my old Triple Play sim days, and i'm not surprised to see it here. It's a matter of trust, and the team he/she has. If the team is a world series contender, then you have huge doubts that he/she could be in it to say you was a world champion in a league, but in truth, in your own league. Me, as the Houston Astros, is not originally a big title threat, but I try my best to make it pretty far into the season. If the commissioner has a record of cheating in other leagues, then don't join, because he will most likly cheat in his own league. I always look on my buddy list for cheaters in my league, as well as others. I'm not tring to make you re-consider your choices on what league(s) to join, and whats not to join, but the ones that has the commish as a team, or the league that you don't like, may be the best league around. It's better to actually join then to judge by the cover of the book.

[Goody]

I do enjoy the extra benefits of not running a team. Although they are things some people may not care about.

I can edit the players. Give them better names when they are generated, custom tailor their skills to make them more realistic, change height, weight, number whatever. Its impossible to do that as an owner and not inadvertantly see somthing you're not supposed to.

There's a lot of little things a commissioner without a team can do that one with a team can't do if they are to stay on fair ground.

[ehrie]

Whenever someone approaches me about me being a GM in my league I always put it to them like this, "Why exactly would I get 29 other guys together, most of whom I've never met before, together just to cheat? I have infinity better things to do, besides when someone beats me in the playoffs I can hold a better grudge! "

[asamford]

I am in a league where the commish runs a team. His name is HornsManiac, and he's really really good at this game. I thought I was good but damn if my Phillies didn't finish 2nd to his Braves, and even though my record was 95-68 I still finished 23 games out of first. He just got really lucky, I mean who would've expected Chipper Jones to break Bonds' record to finish with 83 homeruns or both Maddux and Glavine winning 30 games apiece, his team was really unstoppable. Smoltz saved like 50 something games. That would never happen in real life!! Looks like he's going to have a good team for a long time too, he has 13 of the leagues Top 15 prospects, with most of them rated Brilliant/Brilliant/Brilliant.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by asamford
I am in a league where the commish runs a team. His name is HornsManiac, and he's really really good at this game. I thought I was good but damn if my Phillies didn't finish 2nd to his Braves, and even though my record was 95-68 I still finished 23 games out of first. He just got really lucky, I mean who would've expected Chipper Jones to break Bonds' record to finish with 83 homeruns or both Maddux and Glavine winning 30 games apiece, his team was really unstoppable. Smoltz saved like 50 something games. That would never happen in real life!! Looks like he's going to have a good team for a long time too, he has 13 of the leagues Top 15 prospects, with most of them rated Brilliant/Brilliant/Brilliant.

LOL

[Jestre]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a commish and running a team. If the owners don't trust the commish they will leave. Sooner or later a cheating commish will be found out and then they will pay the price, exposure. It was also mentioned previously that owning a team isn't necessary for a commish to cheat and ghost owning a team is also possible. I bet most commishes lose some of the excitement when they win because of that overhanging dread that some owner may think just because he is winning he must be cheating, once again the commish shouldnt feel guilty its best to lose those type of owners. Personally I led a team to 4 straight pennants and 2 straight Championships in the league I commish and then decided to totally break up the team, partially because I worried about what the other owners might think but moreso because to me the most fun is taking a crappy team and building it into a winner. Bottomline, if you have been in a league for some time and still have doubts maybe you should look for a new league.

[DiversionX]

Originally posted by Portlander
I do enjoy the extra benefits of not running a team. Although they are things some people may not care about.

I can edit the players. Give them better names when they are generated, custom tailor their skills to make them more realistic, change height, weight, number whatever. Its impossible to do that as an owner and not inadvertantly see somthing you're not supposed to.

There's a lot of little things a commissioner without a team can do that one with a team can't do if they are to stay on fair ground.

Bingo. That's precisely why I want to join your league! I have been in two other leagues so far, and whether or not I trust the commissioner is not why I want a league where the commissioner doesn't run a team - I think that the simple fact a person runs the league gives them an unfair advantage over the other owners, to say NOTHING about cheating. In OOTP they can view the "real" numbers if running a talent-only ratings system, and they can sim their own games. Both of these are undetectable and easy to do. Both of these could also conceiveably (and not unreasonably) give you a 5-6 game advantage over the course of a season, more than enough to effect a sway nearly every season.

[Bluenoser]

Originally posted by DiversionX
In OOTP they can view the "real" numbers if running a talent-only ratings system, and they can sim their own games. Both of these are undetectable and easy to do.

Both of these can also be done by any owner in any league by simply opening the league file in Pierre's editor and disabling the "Online" league option.



It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if the Commish owns a team. It's his reputation on the line if he takes advantage of his position. But then again, as stated earlier, using an alias online is as easy as taking candy from a baby. You may join a league where the Commish says he doesn't own a team, but do you really know for sure? So there goes your theory out the window.

I would really like to hear an example or 2 of what you mean by this statement you made earlier though:

***If the commissioner is trying his hardest to win he is shorting other teams somehow***

Please give me some examples of how he is shorting other teams.

[DiversionX]

Originally posted by BruceM


I would really like to hear an example or 2 of what you mean by this statement you made earlier though:

***If the commissioner is trying his hardest to win he is shorting other teams somehow***

Please give me some examples of how he is shorting other teams.

** By knowing the players in the league better than any owners simply by fact of working with the league more, the owner is at an advantage in trading. This shorts other teams in 2 ways 1) it directly effects the teams he trades with because they are giving up more for less. 2) it indirectly effects other teams because the commissioner's team is getting stronger through an advantage that only the commissioner has

** By working on his team the commissioner is not working on the league. You can argue that the two are seperate things and someone can put as much time into either that they want, but in my experience of running a league, I get burnt out if I have too much stuff to do on a day-to-day basis.

** In OOTP the commissioner can run his own games, giving him an advantage over other teams. It might not seem like a lot, and just for arguments sake let's say the commissioner gets 3 wins throughout the course of the year because he was able to make smart decisions during managing individual games. Three wins might not sound like a lot, but it could be anywhere from 3 games to 6 games difference depending on who those three wins are against (if they are against their next direct competitor or not)

These are examples of unbalance by someone whose purpose is to make the league more balanced; that is mutual exclusion, I.E. the jobs of commissioner and owner have directly opposite goals. One has a goal of making the league fair/even/balanced for everyone and the other has a goal of winning, which can also be seen as making the league unbalanced/uneven in favor of his team.

[Treches]

Originally posted by DiversionX
I personally think that it detracts from the league quite a bit and if the commissioner feels that running a team while running a league is the only way to get enjoyment out of a league, they're in it for the wrong rasons.

I don't see how could it detract from the league, to be honest. And I would say that it, as a general statement, has been proved not to be accurate at all thus far by several long-running online leagues. Just try to join a league not managed by a 12-year-old or a total moron. Or both.

I also feel it's a conflict of interest, as running a league and running a team have mutually exclusive goals.

Again, that, as a general statement, has already been proved wrong thus far. There're no exclusive goals unless, as said, you join a league managed by a foolio. Running a well-organized league and trying to build up a good team are compatible. It's quite obvious to me that this is for fun. Good commishes and good owners don't really care if they win it all or not, just try to have some fun managing a team (and a league). That's the interest, that's the goal, so no conflicts whatsoever.

Are there online leagues where the commish cheats? I don't have any personal experience on that regard, but I'm sure there are some. Will they exist for long? Nah. Don't make general statements from exceptions and take your time before choosing your kind of league. I'm sure you will have a different opinion in no time if you choose right.

[LedgerSko]

Owners is a league that are very involved are just plain and simple going to be better than new owners, because they know who they can trade with. They know who has strong teams, and what it takes to trade with other guys, they also know where the good players are and are keen to other league transactions. They may be on top of the waiver wire, and make smarter trades.

The only thing I think a commish could do is keep redoing the sim until he is happy with the results.

I am only in 2 leagues and I know the commishes dont do that in my leagues.

John Le Blanc has commished the NBSL for nearly its entire existance. He has a good team but hasnt won the title. 2 years ago he lost J.D. Drew for the post season. He could have very easily re did the sim so Drew wouldnt have been hurt for the playoff run, but he didnt. So that right there tells me that the NBSL has a great commish.

Also the NL President happens to own the Cardinals, so you know he would be the first guy to catch any "funny stuff".

[IatricSB]

You say that a commish can gain an advantage by simming his games and making better decisions than the AI. But completely ignore the fact that many commishes sim without stopping. If you look at the box scores from any league, you'll find that all games are simmed within a minute from the first to the last. There isn't any time to cheat in a minute sim.

If you have an issue of trust, then I suggest two things. Get out of the league and look in the mirror. Do you not trust others because you can't trust yourself to do the same? I'm not positive, but I believe I have the 100% trust of owners in my league. I worked hard to gain that trust and I work hard to keep their trust. If an owner doesn't trust me, there is nothing I can do to change their mind except to continue as I am. If they can't trust me, then they have the choice of staying or leaving. No matter what, commishes and owners can cheat if they want and nobody can stop them unless they are found out (and some things cannot be found out). If you are in a talent only league, there is no guarantee that owners are not using 3rd party utilities to see the values that they shouldn't be seeing.

It all eventually still comes back to trust. The owners have to trust the commish and the commish has to have trust for each owner. Bottom line is.... we're all in it for fun and what fun is there in cheating? If money or something is on the line, then there should be tighter controls, but its just a game. Its just a game. Its just a game. Relax and have fun.

[Specs]

Originally posted by IatricSB
You say that a commish can gain an advantage by simming his games and making better decisions than the AI. But completely ignore the fact that many commishes sim without stopping. If you look at the box scores from any league, you'll find that all games are simmed within a minute from the first to the last. There isn't any time to cheat in a minute sim.

If you have an issue of trust, then I suggest two things. Get out of the league and look in the mirror. Do you not trust others because you can't trust yourself to do the same? I'm not positive, but I believe I have the 100% trust of owners in my league. I worked hard to gain that trust and I work hard to keep their trust. If an owner doesn't trust me, there is nothing I can do to change their mind except to continue as I am. If they can't trust me, then they have the choice of staying or leaving. No matter what, commishes and owners can cheat if they want and nobody can stop them unless they are found out (and some things cannot be found out). If you are in a talent only league, there is no guarantee that owners are not using 3rd party utilities to see the values that they shouldn't be seeing.

It all eventually still comes back to trust. The owners have to trust the commish and the commish has to have trust for each owner. Bottom line is.... we're all in it for fun and what fun is there in cheating? If money or something is on the line, then there should be tighter controls, but its just a game. Its just a game. Its just a game. Relax and have fun.

What about ScottVib's "Cobb Conspiracy"?

[IatricSB]

A running joke that several of us have contributed too. I thought it was pretty funny, but Scott made it clear he was just having some fun at my expense.

[IatricSB]

Scott also thinks (jokes) that Michael Eichhorn (Hammer755) and I are the same person since Mike's team has been so dominant in Boys of Summer.

[DiversionX]

Your mantra and chief argument against my ideas has been trust issues, I.E. if you don't trust your commish, the league is worthless anyway, but aren't a lot of you running leagues and teams at the same time, and if not aren't you owners in leagues where the commissioner owns a team as well?

I'm not saying this further's my arguments at all, but so far there is only 1 other person besides me that believes a commissioner should not run a team, and as such the arguments have been somewhat lopsided (at last count, about 2 against 14 or 15). I'd like to hear from some team GM's who are neutral on the topic.

[Treches]

Originally posted by DiversionX
Your mantra and chief argument against my ideas has been trust issues, I.E. if you don't trust your commish, the league is worthless anyway, but aren't a lot of you running leagues and teams at the same time, and if not aren't you owners in leagues where the commissioner owns a team as well?

But of course the initial arguments are trust issues. How wouldn't? You enter a league and trust the commish depending on what you see. When you've been in a league for long that trust becomes an undisputed fact. A fact that there have been no cheat moves of any type, that you aren't dealing with a schmuck. What you don't seem to realize is that your arguments have a lot to do with trust as well. Do you really think that the owners of your league don't need to trust you just because you don't own a team? Couldn't you cheat to give any owner of your liking an advantage? Why would you do that, you may ask, if it would be plain lame? But think of it this way, why would a commish with a team cheat to give his team an advantage if it would as well be plain lame? It's a matter of individuals here, not league formats.