A litte update!

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by dmytron

I always refuse to watch live action baseball games over TV or Internet. We don't need graphics, and God only knows why we were born with eyes.

I think that's the reason why MLB coaches never visit stadiums and prefer managing their team listening to the radio broadcast. After all, they don't need to see how their slugger is running. They can get all the information they want from the statistics of the game.

(Using irony and absurdity to make myself clear)

I think you may have an unrealistic view of what the 3D's level of detail will be.

Originally Posted by pjh5165

I think you may have an unrealistic view of what the 3D's level of detail will be.

It's not that... I just think the whole idea of The Wolf's opposing 3D in OOTP is absurd (no hard feelings, Wolf).

Being Ukrainian and that my native language isn't English, I just want something that helps to watch OOTP games and make more considered desicions. Of course, for you there's no such problem.

Of course, quality of simulation has to be on top of the list. But I'm pretty confident in current simulation level. And I don't think that OOTP will ever be like MLB: The Show (It will only if OOTP Developments will be bought by EA Games or 2K).

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

... a first-class AI programmer.

I honestly don't think there is such a thing. I mean, look at the console AAA first person shooter titles, with production budgets in the tens of millions of dollars, and they have AI that is lackluster at best.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I honestly don't think there is such a thing. I mean, look at the console AAA first person shooter titles, with production budgets in the tens of millions of dollars, and they have AI that is lackluster at best.

Hear, hear.

[BradC]

So, anyway, I don't think anyone should expect OOTP to look like MLB The Show. Probably not ever. (Okay, sure, never say never, but that's not something we're even thinking about right now. We need to get 3D stadiums and 3D ball flight in good shape for this version and then think about how to implement players on the field next year -- but no one should think that the game will suddenly leap into MLB The Show territory in 2015, based on that.)

And, yes, we are actively looking for another programmer. In fact, this past Sunday I was part of the interview team talking to such a person. We shall see how it goes with the job offer and all that -- he is a great candidate and seems like a decent, sane guy, so we hope we can bring him on board.

Our company meetings in Germany this week proceed apace. We had a great time having dinner and drinks at Markus' apartment last night. We're all feeling very good about the company and its products and prospects for the future. Markus snapped a bunch of shots, so I'll see about getting a few pics from him so I can post them here and on Facebook.

[rpriske]

Originally Posted by dmytron

I just want something that helps to watch OOTP games and make more considered desicions.

The level of graphics available will NEVER allow you to make 'more considered decisions'. NEVER.

It will just be a pretty picture over-layed on top of the game. Always.

Some people think that is worth it. I happen to think it is too bad that they are going down this path. I believe it will be bad for the game.

I also think that ship has sailed and there is nothing to be done about it now.

Originally Posted by rpriske

The level of graphics available will NEVER allow you to make 'more considered decisions'. NEVER.

It will just be a pretty picture over-layed on top of the game. Always.

I believe that 3D has seriously enriched Football Manager experience. I tried once play CM0102 with commentaries only. It's impossible! Watching the players run, pass and so on is better because I see how their attributes are "implemented" in real game, so it's not just dry numbers. I think something similar will be in OOTP ONLY IF PLAYER ANIMATIONS WILL BE CONSISTENT WITH THEIR ATTRIBUTES.

That's the reason why on business meetings they always show graphs. Have you seen business meetings without graphs? It helps to visualize. It doesn't replace thinking but helps to visualize and understand how the numbers work.

But I don't impose my opinion to anybody

[skalepp]

Everyone needs to just settle down. Just because they are dividing some more time to another part (3-D) of the game doesn't automatically mean the game will forever be bad. You are going to continue to buy OOTP and whatever great features are in each version. I say just sit back and enjoy the lovely view

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I honestly don't think there is such a thing. I mean, look at the console AAA first person shooter titles, with production budgets in the tens of millions of dollars, and they have AI that is lackluster at best.

You are completely wrong. They exist. They work mainly at universities, in business and for the government (DARPA et al).

Console games are designed for kids - people who prefer eye candy to actually having a realistic simulation - so they don't bother to employ first-class artificial intelligence programmers.

This should sound very familiar.

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by dmytron

ONLY IF PLAYER ANIMATIONS WILL BE CONSISTENT WITH THEIR ATTRIBUTES.

That's the part I consider to be unrealistic. Not trying to put you down or anything, but I just don't see the 3D bringing any improvements that are not purely cosmetic visuals.

Originally Posted by pjh5165

I just don't see the 3D bringing any improvements that are not purely cosmetic visuals.

You're right, in your way. But you haven't commented about Football Manager 3D improvements. I think it became better to watch and to manage.

Today I got struck by idea that everyone plays his own way. Someone plays GM and simulates season in 10 minutes. Another person enjoys every game. For "enjoyers" 3D would be great. For "strategicians" -- not. So I can't tell 3D will be good for everybody. You may not need it -- you will not see it. I will need it -- I will appreciate developer's work towards 3D.

But I have no right to judge people who don't like 3D, because I'm not in their shoes. Do they have the right to judge me?

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by dmytron

You're right, in your way. But you haven't commented about Football Manager 3D improvements. I think it became better to watch and to manage.

Today I got struck by idea that everyone plays his own way. Someone plays GM and simulates season in 10 minutes. Another person enjoys every game. For "enjoyers" 3D would be great. For "strategicians" -- not. So I can't tell 3D will be good for everybody. You may not need it -- you will not see it. I will need it -- I will appreciate developer's work towards 3D.

But I have no right to judge people who don't like 3D, because I'm not in their shoes. Do they have the right to judge me?

For what it's worth, I enjoy every game, and I have no interest whatsoever in 3D animations. They just slow down the in-game simulation when I want the result of my decisions instantly, and don't add any information that I did not already have from the PBP. 3D would not be great for me, I just enjoy the in-game strategy as much as the GM-level strategy. I'm attached to my players and their output, not the graphical representation of that output.

I get the distinction you are trying to make, but you're being way too broad by just dumping us all into "strategicians" and "enjoyers", which seems like slightly judgmental language. I say "seems like" since that may not be your intent, given the second language data point.

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by dmytron

You're right, in your way. But you haven't commented about Football Manager 3D improvements. I think it became better to watch and to manage.

Today I got struck by idea that everyone plays his own way. Someone plays GM and simulates season in 10 minutes. Another person enjoys every game. For "enjoyers" 3D would be great. For "strategicians" -- not. So I can't tell 3D will be good for everybody. You may not need it -- you will not see it. I will need it -- I will appreciate developer's work towards 3D.

But I have no right to judge people who don't like 3D, because I'm not in their shoes. Do they have the right to judge me?

I don't play FM so I can't comment on what 3D did for them

I do play out all of my OOTP games day-by-day, though. I'm not totally against 3D improvements, I just think they're unnecessary and would much rather see other things improved/fixed. I understand that we're getting 3D whether we like it or not, and I'm fine with that and I do understand why some people want it. Either way, it's not like everyone who plays their games out wants 3D.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

For what it's worth, I enjoy every game, and I have no interest whatsoever in 3D animations. They just slow down the in-game simulation when I want the result of my decisions instantly, and don't add any information that I did not already have from the PBP. 3D would not be great for me, I just enjoy the in-game strategy as much as the GM-level strategy. I'm attached to my players and their output, not the graphical representation of that output.

I get the distinction you are trying to make, but you're being way too broad by just dumping us all into "strategicians" and "enjoyers", which seems like slightly judgmental language. I say "seems like" since that may not be your intent, given the second language data point.

Very well put.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Console games are designed for kids - people who prefer eye candy to actually having a realistic simulation - so they don't bother to employ first-class artificial intelligence programmers.

I'm sure some people would disagree with that. Console games are for the most part designed for casual gamers, yes, but I wouldn't say they are designed for kids.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I'm sure some people would disagree with that. Console games are for the most part designed for casual gamers, yes, but I wouldn't say they are designed for kids.

I think if Wolf said console games are ONLY designed for kids, he'd be wrong. But I have to agree with him that they're designed for the "eye candy" crowd, a large part of which is kids.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I'm sure some people would disagree with that. Console games are for the most part designed for casual gamers, yes, but I wouldn't say they are designed for kids.

Except for the fact that my sister does graphic design work for console games and every company has specifically told her that their target audience is kids.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I think if Wolf said console games are ONLY designed for kids, he'd be wrong. But I have to agree with him that they're designed for the "eye candy" crowd, a large part of which is kids.

Exactly. Target audience vs total audience.

[The Wolf]

I play MLB: The Show. Beautiful game. It has a franchise/management (totally non-arcade) mode in it.

Want to make a guess about what percentage of time the game is played in management mode?

They keep very detailed automatic feedback stats on this and it's right about 1%.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Considering what the popular games are I feel bad for society if these games are targeted for kids....Cant say I've seen a barbie playhouse commercial for ps4...


Not saying its untrue Im just saying that its messed up lol.