Tell me more about the 3D collada format

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Sil, Markus can do whatever he wants, of course and no question.

But turning a text-based game into a 3D game is an extremely complicated proposition - my sister is a professional computer graphics designer, I have heard more about 3D over the years than I ever wanted to - and it makes me uneasy about what may happen and how the overall focus of the game could go awry. Graphics could easily become more important to the majority of users than than gameplay, and could drive the game from then on.

Your gut tells you everything is going to be okay. That's great. Mine tells me that there's a lot - a Hell of a lot - of potential for bad things to happen as OOTP becomes a graphics-oriented game.

I hope yours is right.

He's not turning a text based game into a 3D game though. He's adding 3D onto the text based game. Those are two vastly different things. Adding 3D stadiums is no different than adding player pictures or FaceGen. Neither one of those had a negative impact in 'the game' and neither will 3D stadiums.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Sil, Markus can do whatever he wants, of course and no question.

But turning a text-based game into a 3D game is an extremely complicated proposition - my sister is a professional computer graphics designer, I have heard more about 3D over the years than I ever wanted to - and it makes me uneasy about what may happen and how the overall focus of the game could go awry. Graphics could easily become more important to the majority of users than than gameplay, and could drive the game from then on.

Your gut tells you everything is going to be okay. That's great. Mine tells me that there's a lot - a Hell of a lot - of potential for bad things to happen as OOTP becomes a graphics-oriented game.

I hope yours is right.

I'll add my own trepidation, although it's a bit on the marginal side right now, but it involves the on-field graphics, if and whenever they're implemented. I'm confident there'll be a chorus of users who want uniform numbers, shadows, arms outstretched, flailing for a groundball, or droplets of spraying sweat are pictured on plays requiring extreme effort. It's a distant implementation, I think, but frankly, I just want the fielders to move right or left correctly and with their reasonably appropriate speeds. Other than that, I'll be strongly advocating that we refrain from little icons jumping up and down in celebration or kicking up dirt with an aggressive slide into second.

Having said that, if the worst result is only forum verbal exchanges or the occasional assault on one another's opinions, then what's changed really? We'll survive, and to Markus' credit, he eventually arrives at his decisions based on his own desires for his game, tempered in part by the voices of the audience and the beta group. Given the virtual chasm separating all of the various temperaments involved in this creation, he continues to do a remarkable job. Again, my

[endgame]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

He's not turning a text based game into a 3D game though. He's adding 3D onto the text based game. Those are two vastly different things. Adding 3D stadiums is no different than adding player pictures or FaceGen. Neither one of those had a negative impact in 'the game' and neither will 3D stadiums.

I agree, and to that end I truly expect the modders in this community to eventually- probably soon after its release, actually -provide outstanding contributions to enrich this aspect of the game. I'm looking forward to see the results of their creativity. I've not been disappointed in what this community can produce with the tools given them. It's a remarkably resilient and creative group of people.

[conception]

The only way a 3d engine could ruin the game is if the 3d engine starts dictating the results based on physics. As long as OOTP's sim engine continues to be the one generating the results, it shoudn't have any impact on the game.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by conception

The only way a 3d engine could ruin the game is if the 3d engine starts dictating the results based on physics. As long as OOTP's sim engine continues to be the one generating the results, it shoudn't have any impact on the game.

Wrong. If the user requests, followed by the game's emphasis, shift to 3D graphics the actual game itself could go right out the window. Or the game could implode, that's happened to numerous other games which tried to add 3D graphics. There is a lot of danger inherent in this transition and just because you want it to happen so badly is no excuse for being blind to what could go very wrong. See Endgame's post above for what some of the demands are likely to be.

And OOTP is turning a text sim into a graphics game. Watch and see.

Way too many things can go very wrong for a game when it converts to a graphics game. Waaaay too many things. I will continue to hope for the best and expect the worst.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Or the game could implode, that's happened to numerous other games which tried to add 3D graphics.

Examples?

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Go ahead and laugh. And then watch over time as the focus of the game and the overwhelming number of feature requests slowly slips down the slope over to graphics.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Believe it or not, I actually hope that I'm wrong and Endgame is right. But, since that runs counter to everything I've ever seen, I remain concerned. But there is always hope.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Which would be the end of it.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Someone expressing legitimate concerns about what they think may be a really bad idea is a "doomsday prediction"? Not. But do carry on with your hyperbole and exaggerations.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Wrong. If the user requests, followed by the game's emphasis, shift to 3D graphics the actual game itself could go right out the window. Or the game could implode, that's happened to numerous other games which tried to add 3D graphics. There is a lot of danger inherent in this transition and just because you want it to happen so badly is no excuse for being blind to what could go very wrong. See Endgame's post above for what some of the demands are likely to be.

And OOTP is turning a text sim into a graphics game. Watch and see.

Way too many things can go very wrong for a game when it converts to a graphics game. Waaaay too many things. I will continue to hope for the best and expect the worst.

Sorry, you are right. There is nothing doomsday about - the end of it, the game going out the window, or the game imploding. That's just me exaggerating.

[hfield007]

Considering all 3D options are just that... OPTIONS, I don't understand the concern even the slightest bit. Especially considering this isn't Markus's direct area of focus.

Onward and upward.

[conception]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Wrong. If the user requests, followed by the game's emphasis, shift to 3D graphics the actual game itself could go right out the window. Or the game could implode, that's happened to numerous other games which tried to add 3D graphics. There is a lot of danger inherent in this transition and just because you want it to happen so badly is no excuse for being blind to what could go very wrong. See Endgame's post above for what some of the demands are likely to be.

And OOTP is turning a text sim into a graphics game. Watch and see.

Way too many things can go very wrong for a game when it converts to a graphics game. Waaaay too many things. I will continue to hope for the best and expect the worst.

I guess I have far more faith in the development team than you do. This isn't a large corporation where guys in suits will dictate an eye-candy release that will sell lots of units to start but ruin the longevity of a franchise that had its basis elsewhere. In that setup it's just one of many projects they are working on, and all that matters is selling units NOW or else they will be looking for a new job (some of them will be anyway in this industry). This is the flagship of a very, very small product line made by a select few people, and its built its basis on a certain type of gameplay and customer. Nothing they have done in the 7-8 years I've been a customer has made me think they are stupid. They aren't trying to change their key gameplay focus, they are trying to make that gameplay focus seem more appealing to people who haven't tried it yet, and trying to make that gameplay more enjoyable to the people who have bought into it already.

Unlike you, I believe Markus knows exactly what he is doing, and I am 100 percent behind it because I completely understand what it means and what it can do.

[conception]

Originally Posted by hfield007

Considering all 3D options are just that... OPTIONS, I don't understand the concern even the slightest bit. Especially considering this isn't Markus's direct area of focus.

Onward and upward.

I think what The Wolf is imagining is that eventually it won't be an option, and that somehow OOTP is going to morph into MLB 2k18.

[hfield007]

Honestly the whole company can go under tomorrow and I'd be pleased playing OOTP 14 forever. I have a quality product to play the rest of my life that I never could have even dreamed as a possibility when I was a kid.

Then again though I have complete and total faith in Markus that he won't ruin this game by adding optional graphics in future editions.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by conception

I think what The Wolf is imagining is that eventually it won't be an option, and that somehow OOTP is going to morph into MLB 2k18.

To be honest I'd be perfectly fine if it did that. I appreciate that most wouldn't however lol.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Wrong. If the user requests, followed by the game's emphasis, shift to 3D graphics the actual game itself could go right out the window. Or the game could implode, that's happened to numerous other games which tried to add 3D graphics. There is a lot of danger inherent in this transition and just because you want it to happen so badly is no excuse for being blind to what could go very wrong. See Endgame's post above for what some of the demands are likely to be.

And OOTP is turning a text sim into a graphics game. Watch and see.

Way too many things can go very wrong for a game when it converts to a graphics game. Waaaay too many things. I will continue to hope for the best and expect the worst.

thanks. i'm not a big gamer so didn't know this. I guess I will cancel my pre-purchase while I can still do it, and get a refund from Visa

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Wrong. If the user requests, followed by the game's emphasis, shift to 3D graphics the actual game itself could go right out the window. Or the game could implode, that's happened to numerous other games which tried to add 3D graphics. There is a lot of danger inherent in this transition and just because you want it to happen so badly is no excuse for being blind to what could go very wrong. See Endgame's post above for what some of the demands are likely to be.

And OOTP is turning a text sim into a graphics game. Watch and see.

Way too many things can go very wrong for a game when it converts to a graphics game. Waaaay too many things. I will continue to hope for the best and expect the worst.

The bold is where I think you're getting it wrong by imagining a potential future scenario that has no historical backing for it. Graphical things have been added to this game historically. FaceGen is but one example. In your opinion, has that shifted the emphasis of the game? Player pictures are another example. In your opinion, has that shifted the emphasis of the game? We can bring up other graphical things, but in your opinion, has that shifted the emphasis of the game? The history of this games shows the answer to all of those questions, imo, to be "no." Therefore, based on that history there is no reason why 3D stadiums will either.

[The Wolf]

3D graphical games are almost always driven by their 3D graphics.

I worry about the game itself being neglected in favor of shiny objects.

[Lukas Berger]

I'd argue that 3d graphics have only had a positive effect of FM. Don't see why it'd be any different for OOTP.

[hfield007]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

3D graphical games are almost always driven by their 3D graphics.

I worry about the game itself being neglected in favor of shiny objects.

Even considering Markus really doesn't do anything with graphics?

Do you think he'll just sit back counting the money in the mean time instead of working on new features and improving the AI?

I don't understand where you are coming from I mean. It's not as if he has any plans to abandon the game's initial intentions and turn it into an arcade style 2k disaster. From my understanding, just as was with iOOTP and the hockey game, he'll oversee the project but actually won't be spending his time working on these things himself.

So what is going to be neglected?

[silvam14]

I'm glad this conversation is getting out in the open now.

I would just like to know what feature, besides some sort or minimal 3d representation of the game that is not currently in OOTP, has the ability to drive sales and influence new customers ?


Sorry, but I don't think people are out there not buying OOTP right now because the game doesn't have the minor league playoff formats correct from 1957.

Everything that is added to the game minus graphical game representation is just stuff to soothe the already paying customers, not lure new ones.

Markus has the potential to make OOTP like football manager in my opinion. Did graphics kill football manager?

[Jelloo]

I don't know anything about football manager but I do know that 3D graphics, if done right, will be extremely cool. Now the pbp is like listening to the game on the radio. With 3D graphics it'll be like watching it on tv. Line drive to right center. The right fielder runs over to get it and throws the ball to the second baseman. In the meantime the batter has rounded first and is heading to second. He slides about the same time the ball hits the second baseman's glove. Bang Bang. The umpire calls the play. Out? Save? This will be great and I've been looking for this game for years. I only hope it gets here soon. At my age, every year counts.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Markus has the potential to make OOTP like football manager in my opinion. Did graphics kill football manager?

They were they best thing to happen to FM in years, in my opinion.