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Old 10-09-2019, 06:20 PM   #1
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Could Someone Explain how To use Openers and What a Follower is?

I kind of get opener but i have never heard the term follower for baseball.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:34 PM   #2
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I kind of get opener but i have never heard the term follower for baseball.
The opener is a reliever who starts the game pitches (usually) an inning or two

The follower is (usually) a starter who comes in after the reliever and pitches 4 or 5 or 6 or so innings

Like this game
https://www.baseball-reference.com/b...01904010.shtml

Stanek is the opener
Yarbrough the follower
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:37 PM   #3
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Follower is the bulk guy who pitches in a game with an opener. There hasn't really been an agreed-upon term for that guy.

As for how to use it, the "easiest" way to set it up is to basically set your rotation like normal, but any of them you want to use an opener for, set the starter as a follower. And then set whichever relievers you want to use as an opener in the pen. That way, whenever the scheduled starter comes up, we'll look to see if there's an opener available, and will use him.

There's a few other ways to set it up as well, but the above is the easiest way to visualize to me.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:44 PM   #4
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Matt, don't know if it's too late for this but could you look at some opener issues for the last patch.
1. Sometimes another starter will be used as an opener when there is no opener available.
2. Sometimes the AI manager uses the follower in relief so the follower is not available and whole rotation ends up pitching on 3 days rest.


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Old 10-09-2019, 08:12 PM   #5
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Is there a benefit to using the opener/follower instead of the traditional, starter/RP/CL?
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:19 PM   #6
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Is there a benefit to using the opener/follower instead of the traditional, starter/RP/CL?
It's designed to take advantage of platoon splits and getting the other team to potentially play guys out of their comfort zone.

For example if a team has a couple of great lefties who rake at the plate but don't hit left handed pitching well the other team might sit them or bat them lower in the order verse a lefty. So you "open" with a lefty and mess up his batting order. After an inning or two you bring in your "follower" and now you have the favorable matchups until the 6th or 7th inning.

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Old 10-09-2019, 09:25 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by krownroyal83 View Post
Is there a benefit to using the opener/follower instead of the traditional, starter/RP/CL?
Best hitters usually hit at the top of the order; more runs are scored in the first than any other inning.

Relievers, generally, are more effective than starters (per inning). A better pitcher faces better hitters. Then the follower can, theoretically go deeper in the game because he doesn't have to face the top of the order a third time.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Best hitters usually hit at the top of the order; more runs are scored in the first than any other inning.

Relievers, generally, are more effective than starters (per inning). A better pitcher faces better hitters. Then the follower can, theoretically go deeper in the game because he doesn't have to face the top of the order a third time.
Yeah, that seems to be the largest use case. So, for example, say your starter is only expected to face 23 batters in the game. If you use him traditionally, then he goes through the order twice, and then faces the first 5 batters the lineup a 3rd time. If you use an opener for the first 4 batters in the game, then the only guys he faces a 3rd time through the lineup are #5-9 in the lineup, which in theory should be easier for him.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:25 AM   #9
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I disable that BS in my league.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:15 AM   #10
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I disable that BS in my league.
I have to ask why you think it is BS? As a fan of a team, my manager's #1 job is to get Ws. Any strategy that does that is fair game, in my book.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:47 AM   #11
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I have to ask why you think it is BS? As a fan of a team, my manager's #1 job is to get Ws. Any strategy that does that is fair game, in my book.
I'm 65, I don't like it when they change from traditional baseball. They are ruining it. Like automatic walks (throw the damn ball, sh!t does happen). And next year they are going to one one pitcher change per inning to "speed up the game". Why? Stupidity really!
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterKing View Post
I'm 65, I don't like it when they change from traditional baseball. They are ruining it. Like automatic walks (throw the damn ball, sh!t does happen). And next year they are going to one one pitcher change per inning to "speed up the game". Why? Stupidity really!
I'm not too far behind you age wise, 60 in my case. Part of me feels like you do, but part of me also remembers that at one point no-one used cut-off men and at one point there were only three infielders and the short fielder played an intermediate outfield position.

I don't want to think of myself as the guy who would gave grumbled, "In my day it was YOUR job to throw the %$#^ ball to the plate, not pansy-ass it to the shortstop!"

I may also be willing to accept new strategies more because I am a fan of a small market team and if we can't get 5 good starters, or a 2nd baseman who can hit both right-handers and lefties I am happy with a strategy that will leverage what we have into more wins!
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomcoach View Post
I'm not too far behind you age wise, 60 in my case. Part of me feels like you do, but part of me also remembers that at one point no-one used cut-off men and at one point there were only three infielders and the short fielder played an intermediate outfield position.

I don't want to think of myself as the guy who would gave grumbled, "In my day it was YOUR job to throw the %$#^ ball to the plate, not pansy-ass it to the shortstop!"

I may also be willing to accept new strategies more because I am a fan of a small market team and if we can't get 5 good starters, or a 2nd baseman who can hit both right-handers and lefties I am happy with a strategy that will leverage what we have into more wins!
Hey, I'm younger than you guys and even me sometimes feels that some of these strategies are just a little too out there. Although for me, it's more of the minor league/tournament extra-inning rule where runners start on the bases, as well as some of the really excessive shifts (although the other side of me thinks of how cool it is to experiment with 4-OF configurations, or 5 infielders).

As for openers, while a couple years ago we weren't sure if it was a thing or just a fad, and that it was limited to what previously were simply called "bullpen games", it's definitely becoming more and more of a thing.

But of course, if you don't like it, there's a reason why there's a league setting that you can disable it.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:29 AM   #14
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I cannot pretend that I am consistent in my likes/dislikes when it comes to changes in the game.

Overall I am bothered less by changes which feel like a thought through strategy, like openers/followers, defensive shifts, etc. because they feel like someone is trying to maximize what they have.

At the same time, I don't like the shift away from base-running and putting the ball in play in favor of launch angle and accepting increased home runs at the expense of increased strikeouts, mainly because I think it makes the game more boring. I know that the reasoning behind it is based as much in statistical analysis as openers/followers but it takes away a lot of what I find fun about the game. As I said, I am not always consistent.

While I think that pace of play is something that MLB is forced to address, because we are losing the younger audience, part of me also feels that they brought it on themselves when they traded more TV money for later start times in the playoffs and world series. My daughter tried to be a baseball fan, but when we got to the end of the season, I couldn't let her stay up until 1 AM on a school night to watch a game.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:44 AM   #15
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I cannot pretend that I am consistent in my likes/dislikes when it comes to changes in the game.

Overall I am bothered less by changes which feel like a thought through strategy, like openers/followers, defensive shifts, etc. because they feel like someone is trying to maximize what they have.

At the same time, I don't like the shift away from base-running and putting the ball in play in favor of launch angle and accepting increased home runs at the expense of increased strikeouts, mainly because I think it makes the game more boring. I know that the reasoning behind it is based as much in statistical analysis as openers/followers but it takes away a lot of what I find fun about the game. As I said, I am not always consistent.

While I think that pace of play is something that MLB is forced to address, because we are losing the younger audience, part of me also feels that they brought it on themselves when they traded more TV money for later start times in the playoffs and world series. My daughter tried to be a baseball fan, but when we got to the end of the season, I couldn't let her stay up until 1 AM on a school night to watch a game.
Yeah, I mean, I understand not wanting playoff games to start in the middle of the afternoon on the West Coast, but given that they tend to run 4+ hours due to extra commercials and the extra strategy teams try, starting at 8 means they end really late.

I think that's why I really like OOTP, you can play a game and cut out all the delay between pitches so it doesn't take long to get through a game. Really, the biggest thing MLB could do to "fix" the game would be to give legit penalties to batters who step out and have to adjust their glove and belt between every pitch, or for pitchers who stand around and take forever to throw a pitch. Frankly to me, the rule should be as long as the batter is not in an unsafe position to receive the pitch (like after a swing, or if his helmet falls off), the pitcher should be allowed to throw the ball. So if the batter needs to step out and adjust his gloves, he better do that quick before the pitcher can get the ball over the plate.

But that's neither here nor there relative to openers...
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:57 AM   #16
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While I am akin to BusterKing and share his viewpoints about baseball, I can't help thinking that it's a lost cause. As always, it's out with the old, in with the new.

The vast majority of people younger than us basically don't care how the game was played in the past or how players of bygone eras became great and how they would stack up against players of today. What they care about is now, period.

It's a transition that I am learning to live with as I get older. Thank goodness for options in OOTPB, though.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterKing View Post
I'm 65, I don't like it when they change from traditional baseball. They are ruining it. Like automatic walks (throw the damn ball, sh!t does happen). And next year they are going to one one pitcher change per inning to "speed up the game". Why? Stupidity really!
Round and round we go

Traditional baseball like: no mitts, batters telling pitchers where to pitch the ball, first to 21 wins, batter out if the fielder catches the ball on one hop, etc...?

People tend to subjectively like the version of things the way they where when they were going up. But don't confuse that with thinking it was objectively better.

I'm less than 65 years old. I love innovation in the game. Openers, defensive shifts, new metrics, creative use of players and roster spots. Though, I think that has less to do with age than the type of person you are.


As for launch angle and strike outs, those are direct results of pitchers being better - throwing harder, using analytics to refine their pitches and usage. It's too hard to get 3 or 4 or 5 hits in San inning to score. Better to go up and swing for the fences.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:25 AM   #18
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It's not the strategic changes that bother me. It's the K's & Hr's.

Pitchers aren't striking out more hitters, more hitters are striking out because the only thing they can hit is HR's.

I like baseball when there's runners on base. That's when things get exciting for me. That's when lots of things can happen. That's when you use strategy.

I'm not a Cardinals fan, but I loved Whitey Herzog's managing style in the 80's. Manufacture a run - get the lead guy on, steal a base, get a hit. Make things happen, get the fans involved in every pitch, every little inch the runner takes in his lead-off from 1st. Is he going or not? Is it a hit and run?

That's strategy to me.

Watch baseball now and there's far too much Is it a HR? or another long fly out? Or another strike out?

One of MLB's ideas at first was to ban the shift rather than force batters to learn how to hit the opposite way. Why use strategy & talent to beat the shift when you can just make a rule? Really MLB? That's your idea of selling the game and drawing in more fans?



Go ahead and make all the changes you like, openers, followers, ban the shift - but for this fan from the 50's and 60's I'll tell you I don't watch very much baseball anymore, mainly because of the lack of strategy and "excitement".

Sorry, but I still remember when Hr's were exciting to watch.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:56 AM   #19
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Pitchers aren't striking out more hitters, more hitters are striking out because the only thing they can hit is HR's.
That's just not true

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In the last eight years, the league-average fastball has risen about 1 mile per hour. While that seems minor, it's actually an enormous boost over time.
...
In 2008, there were only 196 triple-digit heaters thrown over the course of a full season. But for each of the last four years, we've seen over 1,000 pitches thrown over 100 mph.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/are-pitcher...er/c-292153594
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:38 AM   #20
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I do not think it is an inability to hit anything other than HRs, it is a recognition that with the defensive shifts and more use of fresh arms, getting multiple hits is less likely to happen. Sabermetrics has been saying for quite a while that stealing bases and sacrifice bunts are poor strategy overall, and I think the numbers bear that out.

I think that less aggressive base-running and more emphasis on home runs is the more efficient way to score runs, especially today. Unfortunately it is a style of play that I do not enjoy as much, but the purpose of batting is to score as many runs as possible, so what I prefer doesn't really come into the equation.
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