The Spice O' Life

[professordp]

Back in the 1970s, it was common practice to convert old movies theaters into boxing venues. Such was the case with the now-defunct Emabassy Hall in North Bergen, New Jersey which offered the kind of gritty ambience that is associated with club boxing.

A showcase for local talent, New Jersey's two top heavyweights, Chuck Wepner and Randy Neumann, headlined cards at the Embassy. Taking nothing away from either Chuck or Randy, the two most entertaining heavyweights during this era were Bill "Wildman" Carson and Brian O'Melia...particulary when they fought each other, which they did three times at Embassy Hall.

I lived about five miles from Embassy Hall and attended a number of matches which carded Carson and O'Melia. I actually caught one of their three bouts.

Neither was particularly well-schooled in the finer aspects of boxing, although O'Melia, by virtue of his tutelage under trainer Al Braverman, appeared to at least possess some rudimentary understanding of the sport. Carson, on the other hand, was indeed a "wildman", recklessly charging to ring center, firing bombs at the opening bell.

To call the referee's application of boxing's rules "liberal" during a typical match at the Embassy would be an understatement. Elbow, low blows, and heeling either went unnoticed or unpunished.

Both were all-out sluggers with decent chins, and win, lose, or draw, Wild Bill and Brian generally finsihed on their feet. If they were on the losing end of a stoppage, it was usually by way of a TKO rather than a knockout.

Not possessing a devestating punching power, Carson and O'Melia beat their opponents on the basis of the quantity rather than the quality of their punches.

Here Carson's record is a bit misleading. While it's true that he won half of his fights by way of knockouts, you have to evaluate the quality of his kayo victims. They were, without exception, guys with glass jaws, fattened-up light heavies, or in the case of one guy (Tommy Keyes) a fighter with a one-bout career.

Although not on the same tier as Neumann or Wepner, both men faced off against the lower portion of the division's top twenty. They each lost to Scott LeDoux. Carson was stopped by Alfio Righetti and Mike Schutte while O'Melia put in losing efforts against John L. Gardner, Johnny Boudreaux, Pedro Soto, John Dino Denis, Jose Roman, Lorenzo Zanon, and Joe Bugner. He also dropped a ten round decision to Randy Neumann at the Embassy.

While stylisically similar, Carson and O'Melia differed markedly in both their boxing careers and the course their lives took once they hung up the gloves.

Averaging a fight every two months for most of his career, O'Melia compiled a record of 16 (6 by KO) against 32 losses (7 ending early) with two draws for a total of fifty bouts in seven years (he stopped fighting in 1977, but returned three years later for one more match).

In contrast, Carson fought only nineteen times during his five years in the ring, putting together a record of 10 (5 by KO), 8 (4 by KO) losses and one draw.

Overcoming a severe childhood trauma, O'Melia earned a teaching degree while boxing and enjoyed a four decade career as a special needs teacher in the Jersey City school system. In addition, he has frequently functioned as a referee for both professional boxing and wrestling matches.

His back story is rather interesting, and you might wish to visit this link.

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/7740-memories-with-mladinich-brian-omelia

Unfortunately, things didn't turn out as well for Carson. Apparently tormented by personal demons, he was destitute and living as a recluse in a shack on a desolate lot in Cresskill, New Jersey. In 1990, he was struck by an automobile and died as a result of the injuries. See the link below.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-22587059.htm

[professordp]

Going through some of the fight cards at the old Emabssy Hall in North Bergen while I was researching Carson and O'Melia, I came upon another boxer who once fought there, Donald "Biff" Cline...a name that should live in infamy as it relates to the history of the sport.

Biff, who fought at 178 to 185 lbs., was the primary focus of the nefarious scandal surrounding The Ring and it's esteemed Ring Record Book back in the 1970s. Biff's manager, Paddy Dolan, presented fictitious results for several fights that were never held to John Ort, a Record Book editor, who in turn entered the false information to the 1977 edition.

You have to wonder about Dolan's nickname...did it grow out of his knack for padding his fighters' records?

Dolan's object was to inflate Cline's record to have him included in Don King's United States Championship Torunament, which was televised by ABC. When the story broke, The Ring suffered a severe blow to it's credibility, and Biff's dreams of boxing glory were crushed.

When the scandal broke, Cline's record was 9 wins (all by knockout) against one loss. Of course you need to take the win total down to five since at least four of the bouts were pure fabrication. He finished his ten year career in 1980 with a record of 13 (all by KO), 4 defeats (all by KO), with one draw.

Nicknamed "The Terror" for his purported knockout punch, Biff's actual victims were nothing more than slabs of red meat. Several of his opponents only show one or two professional fights in BoxRec. A couple were middlweights who gave up twenty pounds in the ring to Cline. Others were glass jaws like Richard Pittman with a record of 1-27 (kayoed 22 times), Billy Howard who finished at 1-13 (kayoed 13 times), and Al Byrd with a final tally of 2-17 (kayoed 12 times).

Like his bogus bouts, you'd have to conclude that Cline's power was also somewhat of a myth.

His jaw and boxing skills were also suspect. The hapless Johnny Blaine, a career of 4-34 (kayoed 30 times), stood up to "The Terror" and knocked him flat in two rounds. Before his subterfuge was discovered, he faced the promising Ray Elson in the King tournament and was stopped in four. The bout, however, was later listed as "unsanctioned" once the sordid details of Biff's record came to light.

His career finsihed up with a severe, one round beating at the hands of a very young Dwight Muhammad Qawi (then fighting as Dwight Braxton). and a swan song bout at Emabssy Hall ending with a one round knockout loss to the less than mediocre Bernard McLean.

One short note about Biff's rating. I gace him a "Condition" rating of 1. He was described as a "health-nut and physical fitness buff". Thus, you expect him to go into his matches in top form.

If you wish to read more about Biff and The Ring scandal, I strongly urge you to go to the following link in BoxRec.

Donald (Biff) Cline - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

[professordp]

Although BoxRec lists Cline as an heavyweight, I've rated him as a cruiserweight, despite the fact that the division didn't actually exist during Biff's career.

Nevertheless, he typically fought at around 185 lbs. and his opponents were either light heavies over the 175 lb. limit, or overweight middleweights.

[professordp]

If there's a lesson to be learned from the Biff Cline debacle, it's that boxing records are not always what they seem. While Cline's manager obviously stepped over the line by submitting results for fictitious fights, the history of boxing is replete with more subtle slights of hand.

Such was the case with the 1970s heavyweight Al "Wampum" Migliorato, the self-styled "White Ali." Unlike the deceptions in Cline's case, Migliorato's fights all actually took place.

The problem was that you weren't really certain of the true identity of his opponents. Also, you don't know if all of his bouts were full-blown matches or just exhibitions with a core group of pals.

Regardless, there didn't seem to be any malice or "theft-by-deception" at play with Migliorato. Al was a colorful character, seeming to enjoy the spotlight and the opportunity to entertain the audience.

Researching his record, I got the sense that Migliorato's career was something akin to a barnstorming carnival sideshow where local yokels were challenged to see if they could last a few rounds with the resident pro.

More to the point, in contrast to Biff Cline, Al's record of 33 knockout wins was never used to project him beyond the undercards and small venues that defined his career.

There seems to have been no plan to pursue a title shot. Indeed the only national attention Al ever garnered was a few lines of ink and a photo in the Novemeber 1974 The Ring where he was one of about two dozen other thumbnailed "propsects."

After a purported amateur career of twenty-eight wins, all by kayo against no losses (he claims to have defeated Duane Bobick!), Migliorato fought a four round exhibition against Muhammad Ali in 1973. At some point he signed a contractual agreement with Angelo Dundee and relocated his base of operations from Pensylvania to Southern Florida.

The exhibition appears to have had a considerable impact upon Al. He copied Ali's style in the ring, right down to the shuffle and the shouts, "I am the Greatest". It caught on quickly, and Southern Floridians started calling him "The White Ali".

Al's opponents were a strange lot. Nearly half the guys he beat show their loss to Migliorato as their one and only pro fight in BoxRec. At least two of them were dishwashers at a bar near the gym where Al did his workouts. The overwhelming majority of the remainder were guys whose total career bouts were in the single digits.

Some of the "fighters" he faced fought Migliorato several times using different names for each bout. After losing to Al, Willie Burks became Willie Bucks in their next match. Larry Daniels morphed into Larry Robinson who might have actually been Leonard Robinson. Over the course three bouts with Migliorato, Jimmy White became Jimmy Wright.

In other instances, the name changes were more dramatic. James Youngblood became "James Clatman". In May 1973, Al defeated Ron Casey four times. Casey used his real name in the first fight; a week later he was Kid Reco, then Kid Reed, and finally Kid Reid.

Al's one claim to fame was a third round kayo win over Dave Matthews in 1974. An amateur star who won AAU and Golden Glove titles, Matthews was a highly touted (and over-hyped) prospect at the time.

For most of his career, Al was a real "ring rat" fighting several times a month. Following his loss to Gene Idellette in a 1977 six round decision, he started to slow down. He took a year off, and in a retun match was kayoed by Idellette in one round. Severl months later he was counted out in the third in a bout with Clyde Fussell. It was Fussell's first pro fight.

Migliorato's final bout was an eight round decision over the much-beaten Charlie "Emperor" Harris in 1980. The match was held in the Orlando American Legion Hall, and I got the sense that the bout was more of an exhibition to raise funds for a local charity than it was a legitimate fight.

After hanging up his gloves, Al went on to work as a minor league baseball umpire in the Florida State League. On November 3, 1989, Migliorato was killed in a tragically sad skydiving accident.

Long though it be, the above is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg as it relates to Al Migliorato.

I strongly urge you to visit the following link at BoxRec. You'll find it both interesting and entertaining.

I think Al would have liked that!!!

Al Migliorato - Boxer

[professordp]

To give you a flavor of Al Migliorato's typical opponent, I thought it best to provide a rating for the boxer with whom he had the most matches, Ron Casey...or whatever he happened to be called at the moment.

No doubt influenced by the early 60s novelty hit by Shirley Ellis, "The Name Game", Casey altered his name (as noted in the Migliorato essay above) in each of the four fights he and Al staged during May 1973.

Casey was a pretty interesting fellow. He launched his career way back in 1961. After one fight, he disappeared for six years, had another fight, came back a year later for one more bout, then vanished from the boxing scene until May 1973 when he fought Migliorato in those four successive matches.

He once indicated that he decided to be a pro boxer "on lark". It seems his best sports were bar brawls and street fights. Casey claimed that he was shot six times and stabbed on four occasions in these "unsactioned" matches. He was shot and killed in 1979 in a pool hall brawl.

At some point in early 1973, Migliorato hooked up with Ron at "Howies Bar and Lounge" in Miami Beach where Casey was working as a dishwasher. Located near the 5th Street Gym, the bar was a popular hang out for local pugs.

Al must have convinced Casey that taking some punches for a couple of rounds was a good way to supplement the meager wages paid to a dishwasher, and thus, Ron became part of the Migliorato sideshow.

Obviously more formidable in a bar room than a boxing ring, Casey fought eleven times, losing all his bouts by knockouts. He never lasted beyond three rounds in any of those contests.

Do you recall the "Soul-Brother Heavyweight Championship" fight in April 1978? If not, here's the result: Solomon McTier pounded Ron around the ring until it was stopped in the third.

This was Casey's last fight. After that he picked up some money here and there as a sparring partner for Jeff Merritt, Levi Forte, Ollie Wilson, and Florida Al Jones until his death in 1979.

I really need to give Conn Chris the credit for this rating. All I did was take one of his "sub-zero" ratings (-18...you can't go any lower!) and slap Casey's info on it.

Actually, it works out fairly well. Match Casey up against any of your 0 fighters, and he'll be out of it within three rounds.

For those who rate their own fighters or run unis based on overall ratings, you really need to look at what Chris came up with. There's a world of difference between boxers at the 0 level in TBCB.

There are 0s and then there are sub-0s!

[professordp]

For most of the 1970s, Argentine heavyweight Reinaldo Raul Gorosito served as a trial horse/gatekeeper who tested the power, stamina, and patience of rising divisional prospects.

Born in Argentina, Gorosito launched his pro career in 1971 at the Felt Forum after winning the New York Golden Gloves Heavyweight Open championship earlier that year.

After a couple of prelim bouts he started appearing in ten rounders in Madison Square Garden and moved on to a variety of venues including Puerto Rico, Miami Beach, Minnesota, and Los Angeles.

He returned home in 1975 to win the Argentine heavyweight crown with a flash, one roud knockout over Pablo Noe Castellino. Subsequently, he'd have two more title bouts with Castellino, both of which ended in draws.

Along the way, he met both Bobick brothers (splitting two decisions with Rodney and taking Duane the full ten rounds in a losing effort), Howard Smith, Kevin Issac, Randy Neumann, and Kallie Knoetze. Both bouts with Knoetze took place in South Africa. In the first match, Gorosito won when Kallie was disqualified; in the second meeting, Knoetze won in ten on points.

In 1975, he meet a post-prime (but still dangerous) Oscar Bonavena back home in Buenos Aires. For ten rounds, Bonavena blasted away, but Gorosito remained on his feet, losing the decision.

Gorosito was lacking in punching power. While 8 of his 18 victories are recorded as knokouts, only three of his opponents were actually counted out. In addition to the aforementioned Castellino, his other two kayo vicitims were the perennial canvas-kissing Richard Pittman and the young Jasper Evans.

Reinaldo Raul had two assets...a strong chin and the ability to make his body a small, difficult target to hit. He withstood the power of Duane Bobick, Bonavena, and Howard Smith in ten rounders without ever leaving his feet. In fact it was not until the end of his career when he was kayoed in the second by John Tate that Mr. Gorosito was formally introduced to the canvas. This was the first time he had been stopped

Getting by on ring savvy, the elusive Gorosito was never much of an aggressor in the ring. Described as a roly-poly sort of fellow, he would bounce around the ring adjusting his style to offset the strengh of a particular opponent.

At the time he met Tate in 1978, Gorosito seems to have begun to fade. Six months earlier he lost his Argentine title in a twelve round decision to a young fighter and took more shots that usual in the match.

Following the loss to Tate, he fought only five more times over the next four years, winning two and losing three (two by stoppage).

Hanging up his gloves following a six round decision over fellow Argentine Jose Heredia in 1981, Gorosito's compiled a pro record of 18 wins (8 by early endings) against 16 defeats (3 stoppages...all in the final years of his career). He drew with six opponents.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by professordp

To give you a flavor of Al Migliorato's typical opponent, I thought it best to provide a rating for the boxer with whom he had the most matches, Ron Casey...or whatever he happened to be called at the moment.

Whew, plumbing the depths prof.

Neat that you are using those templates - thanks! I hadn't known that anyone was until someone PM'd me about them a week or two back.

There are two major credits behind those templates:

1) Thunder determined what represented a full 'level' in the sim from 1 to 15 (defined as beating the next lowest level at a 60% clip)

2) Lamar Clark (there just had to be a way to explain his record)

[professordp]

Explains a lot of guys before and after Lamar Clark

On a serious note, I really think that the templates are an essential tool for rating fighters, particularly with guys who have a high ratio of knockouts on paper but who have faced opponents who barely had a pulse.

As the TBCB Manuel states, "The legitimacy of... knockouts would depend greatly upon the level of competition provided by the opponents who he stopped."

Once again, thank you for developing this all-important tool for those of us who enjoy putting some ratings together.

[kenyan_cheena]

I know this is the wrong thread, but we need some closure on A Partial Eclipse, professor!

[professordp]

Originally Posted by kenyan_cheena

I know this is the wrong thread, but we need some closure on A Partial Eclipse, professor!

I'll be returning to it in a few weeks (the Papp sim as well).

For the past two years, I've had an increasing burden in the form of providing soccer ratings for Headed Goal (the pc soccer game) which dominated a good portion of my time.

Relaunching this thread is the best way to get me back into the TBCB swing of things.

[professordp]

This Atlas shrugged and couldn't handle much of the load of the heavyweight division during his nearly fifteen year career (1972-1986)

Born Charles Anderson and fighting out of Bastrop, Louisiana, he took a "stage name" that suggested both a Greek mythological titan and a famous American fitness guru.

His career record of 9 wins (5 via knockout) against 38 defeats (kayoed 27 times) indicates that he measured up to neither.

Atlas started out as a undercarder who soon descended into the red meat ranks of boxing.

When the high point of your career is scoring a ten round decision over Memphis Al Jones there's not much to say! Earlier, he had scored a third round knockout win against an end-of-the-line light heavy Brian Kelly who was out sized by nearly six inches and about twenty pounds.

The win over Jones in 1974 evened up Atlas' record to 7-7. He went on fighting for another twleve years winning only two more fights and losing thirty-one.

Among those who defeated him were Johnny Boudreaux, Jody Ballard, Tom Prater, Roy Williams, Boone Kirkman, James Tillis, Fred Askew, Ron Stander, Floyd "Jumbo" Cummings, Tony Tucker, and Juan Luis Garcia.

All of these losses were via early endings, and with the exception of Garcia and Kirkman, these guys were just starting their pro careers.

As the 1970s drew to a close, Atlas was being knocked out by guys with far less familiar names. At that point he started to slow down to some extent as he fought less frequently, albeit with the same negative results.


I've rated him for his "Prime" (if you could call it that!) and given him a conditioning of 8, "Fights Too Frequently".

If you are using him in a bout that takes place during the 1980s, you might want to manually set his conditioning to "Needs Paycheck" and take his career stage to "Post-Prime" for mor realistic results.

[professordp]

For a brief period in the early 1970s, Massachusetts boasted two promising heavyweight prospects, Doug Kirk and Cliff McDonald.

A product of the tough streets of South Boston, McDonald was tall, good looking, and powerfully built. Somewhat of a local sports hero, Cliff was a high school football star and captained the South Boston squad during the mid 1960s.

He continued playing football at the University of New Hampshire from which he was graduated in 1971 with a degree in physical education. Upon his graduation, he quickly turned to professional boxing. After a handful of successful fights in Portland, Maine, he returned to the Boston metro area where he spent most of his career.

In contrast, Kirk was a slightly undersized heavyweight. A native of nearby Lowell, he was born Richard Czelewicz but changed his name to "Doug Kirk" in an effort to appeal to the large Anglo/Celtic ethnic groups that dominated the Boston area.

McDonald was promoted as a knockout artist, scoring knockouts in 17 of his 18 victories as a pro. Cliff's punch, however, might have been somewhat overrated. Five of his kayo victims list their respective losses to McDonald as their only professional fight. Add such perennial punching bags as Richard Pittman, Leslie Borden, and Bob Cruitson to the mix, and just have to wonder about the potency of his punch.

Kirk was more of a brawler and generally faced a slightly higher caliber of opponent. As a result, he had an edge over McDonald in terms of ring savvy. He tended to wear his opponents down rather than take them out with one shot. All five of his professional defeats came by way of TKO, thus he was never counted out.

They met twice in 1972 for the New England heavyweight crown. In their first match, Kirk caught McDonald cold in the opening frame, sending him to the canvas three times for a first round TKO victory. McDonald dominated the return match eight months later beating Kirk for eight rounds, winning via the TKO.

At this juncture both men attempted to move up to the next level of the heavyweight ranks but found the competition just too stiff. McDonald was flattened in one by Pedro Lovell and suffered a TKO loss at the hands of John Dino Denis a few months later. After the Denis fight, he left boxing and taught physical education in the Boston school system for the next three decades. In 2004, he died of a heart attack at the age of fifty-five.

Prior to his rematch with McDonald, Kirk travelled to England where he we pounded for five rounds by Joe Bugner before the bout was halted. After being stopped by McDonald, he suffered TKO losses at the hands of Randy Neumann, Stamford Harris, and finally Duane Bobick, after which he also retired.

Both men started their professional boxing careers in 1971 and wisely retired two years later when they realized their talents would take them no further.

Actor/director Clint Eastwood once noted, "A good man always knows his limitations."

All things considered, Kirk and McDonald were indeed "good men".

[professordp]

The following photos were intitally posted years back by Chris and Jofre.

Doug Kirk is on the left, Cliff McDonald on the right.

[professordp]

Among the 1970s Floridian heavyweight crop were two young prospects, John L. Johnson and Orestes "OT" Davis. Johnson and Davis staged three, hard-fought slugfests in 1975. Johnson won the first by way an eight round unanimous decision, but Davis came back in the rematch to score a TKO in the fourth. The rubber match was won by Johnson via a TKO in two.

The series was pretty much the highpoint for both fighters. Within a year, they would each embark upon a downward spiral concluding with a retirement from boxing. Each would ultimately return to the ring only to suffer continual defeats and at times, severe beatings.

Standing at 6'4 and tipping the scales at around 205 lbs, Johnson, dubbed "Big John", was quickly pulled into the Dundee orbit. After a string of losses in 1975, he retired but served as a sparring partner for both Ali and Jimmy Ellis.

He returned to the ring in 1977, pretty much serving as an undercard punching bag. By 1980, he was all but finished with five losing efforts between 1982 and 1990, ending up with a career record of 12 (KO 9) wins against 24 (17 by KO) losses with one draw.

BoxRec has a fairly extensive bio on Johnson.

John L Johnson - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Less is known of Davis. He started his career in 1974 but retired two years later with a balanced record of seven wins (all by knockout!) and seven losses. He returned to the ring eight years later, fighting infrequently and losing all eight of his bouts. He quit for good following a third round knockout loss to Trevor Berbick in 1988.

Back to those seven wins by kayo. I'm one of those who believes that a fighter's knockout ability is based upon the power of his punch in relationship to the fragility of his opponent's jaw. Thus, when rating a boxer for TBCB, I'm more impressed with the quality of the other guy's jaw than I am with the KO% you get from BoxRec.

Looking at just whom OT actually knocked out, I'm disinclined to say that his punches were pure TNT. As mentioned above, he stopped Johnson. A lot of folks did that during Big John's career. Seventeen of Johnson's twenty-four losses came via early endings

Next, he stopped the mid-1960s Great White Hoax, Bowie Adams twice in 1975. Bowie was coming off a five year hiatus from boxing at the time. If you thought Adams was bad in the 1960s, the ill-conditioned, 1970s, thirty-four year old version was even worse.

That leaves us with Phil Fritz, Carlos ("Dunston Checks Out"?) Dunston, Virgil Green, and Pete Balcunes. Add all them up and you get a collective record of 5-22, the overwhelming majority of losses via knockout.

One thing for certain about Orestes "OT" Davis, he must have been some sort of an animal in the ring. In his first 1976 match with Fritz, both men were disqualified for biting each other. Eight years later when he returned to the ring, he lost his "comeback" match to Joe Golphin by a DQ after only two rounds.

[professordp]

Going through the three unis that I've worked on over the past four years, I found ratings for about two dozen boxer that were created expressly for each of the respective unis, all of which were posted in those threads.

These ratings were quickly put together, and I took a little "poetic license" by using slight exaggerations to achieve the desired result at a particular stage in of a universe.

Some people read all the unis, others only a few, and some none at all. Many of these fighters might not hold much interest for the average member, yet there are quite a few that I think you'd like to add to your data pools.

In any event, I felt, now with the benefit of the Conn Chris Sub-Zero Templates, it was appropriate to rework these rather pastiche ratings and put them in a more realistic and accurate form.

So over the next few weeks, I'll be posting a sub-thread and give you the "Real Deal" on these boxers.

[professordp]

The father and an uncle to three of my closest friends, Johnny "Kid" Caruso fought as a middleweight in the New York/New Jersey metro area between 1941 and 1947 (with two years off for military service during World War Two).

The majority of his bouts took place as an undercarder in his hometown of Jersey City, but he also had a half dozen fights in the famed St. Nicholas Arena.

The Kid was quite proud to have fought twice in Madison Square Garden. Although he lost both contests, he once told us that for a boxer to fight in the Garden was like a baseball player taking the batter's box in Yankee Stadium.

He rarely talked of his boxing days, but on the few occasions that he reminisced about his ring career, you'd get a good idea about what it was like to be a professional ifghter in those times.

Johnny said that you never earned enough in the ring to keep your head above water, and therefore he worked at a variety of jobs, using his limited free time to train and maintain his conditioning.

Nevertheless, he felt his greatest liabilty was his physique. Standing only 5'4" with a short "wingspan", Johnny's opponents typically had substantial height and reach advantages.

"To get close enough to hit the other guy, I had to take five or six shots first", I remember him telling us.

His record of 11 wins (3 via KO) against 15 defeats (8 by knockout) with two draws is indicative of the problem.

Besides the two times he appeared in the Garden, his best memories were his two fights against the more experienced Mickey Makar, a rival from neighboring Bayonne. Johnny dropped an eight round decision in their first meeting, but banged out a ten round win in the rematch.

"Those fights with Makar were something else. Half the crowd was from Jersey City and the other half from Bayonne. There were bragging rights involved since I was representing Jersey City and Mickey was representing Bayonne. You weren't just fighting for yourself. You were also fighting for your city."

Given my obvious personal bias, I tended to inflate Caruso's rating for my Papp uni. At the time I had learned of his passing and wanted to pay him a little homage by making him Papp's first professional opponent in my sim.

This rating is far more objective. I did an analysis of the Kid's opponents, whom he knocked out and who put him out for the count, etc.

I tested and adjusted the ratings by simming Caruso against the composites in the Conn Chris Sub-Zero Templates. His opponents ranged between the -2 to -10 ratings within the templates. Caruso pretty much held his own until he matched up against those at -5 and above, which to me seemed just about right.

A note on the picture below. Johnny bore a striking resemblance to the actor, Ben Gazzara. Thus, I took the "liberty" of using an early shot of Ben as an image for Kid Caruso.

[professordp]

As I was testing another fighter's rating with actual opponents, I found some confusion with 50s, 60s, early 70s heavyweight, Ollie Wilson.

The rating in the default pool seemed to have several typos (I don't think the team wanted to give him a CF of 9) and bio errors. Moroever, when I checked Fighterlist there was a totally different rating. Finally, I came accross a third rating (also different) in my files for TBCB 2.0 created by Chris years back.

Thus, I've created my own rating, in part a hybrid of the above but with my own take on Wilson.

Ollie's back story certainly fits into the general theme of this thread. An imposing figure at 6'5" and 210-plus lbs. had a two decade career (1952-1972) as an intinerant journeyman, compling a record of 20 wins (13 by KO) against 42 defeats (kayoed 20 times).

Starting in New England, he took root in Flordia for the first half of the 1960s where he wore the state heavyweight crown for several years. A brief European adventure at the end of 1964 (he was stopped by Karl Mildenberger and Franco DePiccoli) didn't work out, and he left boxing only to return 2 1/2 years later.

His 1967 comeback had him fighting in the Bahamas with mixed results over the next three years. In 1970 he left the islands, losing his next eight fights. He was kayoed by Boone Kirkman in Minnesota, decisioned by both Bepi Ros and Dante Cane in Italy, defeated by Bob Benoit in Maine, knocked out by Jeff Merrit back in the Bahamas, flattened by George Foreman in Texas, and finally calling it a career aftrer Jimmy Ellis stopped him in Ohio.

Several months after the Eliis fight, Wilson was stabbed to death in Hartford. Connecticut. He was forty years old.

Besides the above mentioned, he was defeated (often knocked out) by Thad Spencer, Levi Forte, Roberto Davila, Eddie Machen, Cleveland Williams, Harold Johnson, Alonzo Johnson, Willie Pastrano, Charlie Norkus, Art Swiden, and Waban Thomas. There were others, far less noteworthy, who also recorded wins over Wilson.

Those thirteen wins by knockout were generally against guys who were bottom feeders. Nevertheless, given his size, Ollie could pack a wallop. His record indicates that he sent Stamford Harris and Norkus home early.

In the first fight with Norkus, Wilson was down and almost out in the third. During the fourth frame, he drove Norkus through the ropes and then decked him. For one reason or another, Norkus was unable to continue, and Ollie was declared the winner via TKO.

Wilson appeared to be somewhat of a "headcase" and that's how I set his conditioning. In his 1958 fight with Harold Johnson, BoxRec reports that Ollie was "scared stiff" and was decked four times before the match was stopped in the second. Several years later against Roberto Davila, he refused to answer the bell in the eighth round. Finally, despite having a twenty pound plus advantage along with a substantial height and reach over Bob Benoit, Wilson moved around the ring with his hands at his sides for ten rounds, losing a unanimous decison in 1971.

My rating is pretty much limited to Ollie's performance from the late 50s until his hiatus from boxing in 1964. When he returned to boxing he was thirty-five years old. When he lost to Ellis and Foreman, he was pushing forty.

Thus, I suggest you adjust his career stage to either "Post-Prime" or "End" if you're using him in sims for post-1964 bouts.

The photo below was posted by Chris and modified by Tosti some years ago,

[professordp]

I put together a "quick" rating for Thomas a few years ago to add a little color to my "Partial Eclipse of the Sonny" thread, and upon reflection, I decided he deserved a more thorough evaluation.

Family lore has it that Thomas got both his Christian name and his moniker when his dad, Foster Thomas, saw a tugboat called "The Waban" and thought it would be a perfect name for his next son.

It proved to be somewhat appropriate. Waban stood at only 5'9" but weighed in at around 210. A "tugboat" indeed! With these physical limitations, Thomas used a sort of "Marciano-style" of bulling hs way in and windmilling his punches.

Unfortunately, Waban lacked Rocky's punching power and his ability to avoid punches.

An active amatuer with Golden Gloves titles to his credit, Thomas came to professional boxing late in life, turning pro in 1957 at the age of twenty-nine. He fought virtually all of his matches in his home state of North Carolina and hung up his golves, compiling a record of 9-6 with wins coming against mostly against local talent.

He did, however, meet some fighters that were known nationally in the late 50s boxing world. He lost ten round decisions to Charlie Norkus and Art Swiden, won a split ten-rounder over erratic Ollie Wilson, and traded kayos wins with Oscar Pharo in two fights

He returned to the ring nearly three years later in mid-1963, in an effort to move his career beyond the parochial level. This didn't work all that well,

Over the next four years, he was stopped by Levi Forte, Amos Johnson, Roberto Davila, and Buster Mathis. In between, he generally won against less than distinguished talent and picked up the Carolina's heavyweight crown along the way.

Following his one round kayo at the hands of Buster Mathis in 1967, Thomas, now approaching forty, once again retired. And there he should have stayed.

The allure of the ring brought him back again iin 1971 and at age forty-three he was stopped by Richard Pittman. This should have been final confirmation that Waban's boxing days were behind him. It proved to be Pittman's only win in a thrity bout career.

Now pushing fifty in 1977, Thomas agreed to meet a rival of twenty years earlier, Neil Wallace, in what was billed as a ten round, "old timers" match. Wallace and Thomas fought twice in 1957 with Waban winning both contest via TKO.

Call it mid-life crisis, male hubris, or whatever, this final encounter proved to be a very nasty affair. After eight very brutal rounds, the ringside doctor called an end to the match when he deemed Thomas unable to continue.

Around the time that I had done my iniital rating for Thomas, he had sadly passed away, just shy of his eighty-first birthday.

The photo below was initially posted by Rom

[professordp]

In error I forgot to list Thomas as "Retired", so for your sorting and record keeping use this rating rather than the one abve.

[professordp]

While reworking the Waban Thomas rating, it struck me that you can't have any fun without matching the "Tugboat" with Neil Wallace.

Like Thomas, Wallace was also a native of the Carolinas but was far less parochial with regard to his fighting venues. Turning pro in 1948 after a successful amateur career, Neil spent his first two yers as a pro fighting out of Florida.

He then moved on to the North East, beating a very young Danny Nardico in Waterbury, Connecticut via a six round decision and lost his next bout by way of a third round knockout to the unheralded Claude Rolfe.

Ironically, the loss to Rolfe gave him his one shot at glory. He was matched against Ralph Schneider in the opening bout on the Joe Louis-Ezzard Charles 1950 heavyweight title bout card at Yankee Stadium. Schneider knocked Neil cold in the first frame.

Shortly therefter, Neil entered the military. When he returned a veteran of the Korean War, Wallace resumed his ring career in 1952, but this time he stayed close to home, fighting all but one of his matches in the Charlotte, North Carolina area.

He retired in 1957 after his two TKO losses to Thomas with a career record of 11 wins (7 by KO) against 6 defeats (5 by KO).

Reading accounts of their "old timers" fight twenty years later, you get the sense that there must have been some strong anger issues brewing within Wallace that surfaced when he met Thomas for that third fight.

There were scores to be settled, at least in Wallace's mind. What might have been initially set up as an exhibition turned out to be a regular brawl between two fifty-plus gladiators. Indeed, the Carolinas Boxing Hall of Fame refers to this 1977 meeting as a "classic heavyweight rematch".

A suggestion or two if you are thinking about replaying this match. Wallace seems to have come into the bout with greater intensity (anger?), thus I'd set his career stage at "Prime".

Thomas stopped him twice in 1957 and is rated accordingly. Yet since he took the greater beating in 1977, you might wish to set his career stage at "Post-Prime" if you wish a realistic result.

The photo of Wallace was posted by Rom several years ago.