Anyone else watching the Yankees....

[Déjà Bru]

As part of the contraction of the minor leagues, the Yankees are dropping the Charleston (South Carolina) RiverDogs and the Pulaski (Virginia) Yankees. They are also ending their relationship with the Trenton Thunder and Staten Island Yankees which they did not have to do for the purposes of contraction.

Instead, they are picking up the Somerset (NJ) Patriots and Hudson Valley Renegades. The only affiliation that they are leaving alone are the Triple-A RailRiders in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.

Here is what the Yankees’ minor-league hierarchy will look like starting with the 2021 season:

• Triple-A: Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (same)
• Double-A: Somerset (big promotion from the independent Atlantic League)
• High Class A: Hudson Valley (promotion from short-season Class A Rays affiliate)
• Low Class A: Tampa (demotion from Advanced Class A)

Like other clubs, they will keep their complex-based Gulf Coast League and Dominican Summer League teams, which don’t count against the four-per-franchise total.

[Déjà Bru]

Can't blame DJ for turning down his qualifying offer. After the past two years that he's had with the Yankees, he looks positively underpaid for those years at $12 million per. $18.9 million offered for 2021 was not enough to make up for the difference. (This said while putting aside my abhorrence of the amount of money involved and instead looking at the matter objectively.)

I will miss DJ if he moves on. I consider him to be the best all-around player on the team.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I will miss DJ if he moves on. I consider him to be the best all-around player on the team.

What's the difference between the best player on the team and the best all-around player on the team?

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

What's the difference between the best player on the team and the best all-around player on the team?

Good question. By "all-around" player, I am thinking of the old "Five Tools" definition: a player who excels at (1) hitting for average, (2) hitting for power, (3) speed, (4) throwing -arm strength, (5) fielding ability.

A quite subjective judgment unless backed up by something like WAR or statistical analysis in each category. Also, a definition applicable to only position players, of course.

Yet I have seen LeMahieu referred to, by the media and teammates, as the team MVP and I agree. Just an impression, having watched him play for two years

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Good question. By "all-around" player, I am thinking of the old "Five Tools" definition: a player who excels at (1) hitting for average, (2) hitting for power, (3) speed, (4) throwing -arm strength, (5) fielding ability.

A quite subjective judgment unless backed up by something like WAR or statistical analysis in each category. Also, a definition applicable to only position players, of course.

Yet I have seen LeMahieu referred to, by the media and teammates, as the team MVP and I agree. Just an impression, having watched him play for two years

So just to be clear

If a team had a superstar player who was only good in 4 of the 5 tools, say, they were very slow, and another player who was good in all the tools, but obviously inferior to the 4-tool player, the superstar would be the best player and the other player would be the best all-around player?

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

So just to be clear

If a team had a superstar player who was only good in 4 of the 5 tools, say, they were very slow, and another player who was good in all the tools, but obviously inferior to the 4-tool player, the superstar would be the best player and the other player would be the best all-around player?

No, I would say, subjectively (i.e., without extensive statistical analysis), that the best all-around player is the best [position] player. (Again, not including pitchers.)

Yet, interestingly, when I looked up the definition of "position player," I found this, causing me to change my viewpoint slightly:

In baseball, a position player is a player who on defense plays as an infielder, outfielder, or catcher. This is generally all players on a team except for the pitcher, who is considered separate from the position players; in the American League, there is also a designated hitter, who bats but does not play any defensive positions.

So here, chew on this: I had forgotten about the DH but now I claim:

1) While pitchers are judged with a different set of parameters, they contribute only defensively. Offensively, they are liabilities or rendered null by the DH rule.

2) Players who are predominantly DHs (you choose what "predominantly" means) cannot be the best players on their teams either. They lack the means to prove themselves defensively and therefore are not all-around players.

The best players on baseball teams are usually the ones that make the highest contribution all-around: offense and defense. This does not mean that a pitcher or a DH cannot be considered the MVP if he has a spectacular season that makes up for his one-sided contribution, especially if no position player has distinguished himself as an all-around player.

But LeMahieu has, in my opinion. That is my assertion. What is your say?

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

No, I would say, subjectively (i.e., without extensive statistical analysis), that the best all-around player is the best [position] player. (Again, not including pitchers.)

Yet, interestingly, when I looked up the definition of "position player," I found this, causing me to change my viewpoint slightly:

In baseball, a position player is a player who on defense plays as an infielder, outfielder, or catcher. This is generally all players on a team except for the pitcher, who is considered separate from the position players; in the American League, there is also a designated hitter, who bats but does not play any defensive positions.

So here, chew on this: I had forgotten about the DH but now I claim:

1) While pitchers are judged with a different set of parameters, they contribute only defensively. Offensively, they are liabilities or rendered null by the DH rule.

2) Players who are predominantly DHs (you choose what "predominantly" means) cannot be the best players on their teams either. They lack the means to prove themselves defensively and therefore are not all-around players.

The best players on baseball teams are usually the ones that make the highest contribution all-around: offense and defense. This does not mean that a pitcher or a DH cannot be considered the MVP if he has a spectacular season that makes up for his one-sided contribution, especially if no position player has distinguished himself as an all-around player.

But LeMahieu has, in my opinion. That is my assertion. What is your say?

I try not to refer to "position players" - though I often fail since that terminology has been imbeded so thoroughly in my brain. I prefer pitchers and non-pitchers as, obviously, pitcher is a position - and a few players who do both.

All players, IMO, should be judged the same, on the number of runs they produce. It matters not whether they add a run offensively or subtract a run on defense (pitching included)

To me, the best all-around player is the one who, through a combination of offense and defense, is the best player. That's where the "all around" comes from - a consideration of both a player's strengths and weaknesses; DH's and pitchers included.


If we want to talk about players who excell in all facets of the game (the five tools), or, at least, who aren't liabilities in one area, then we can just state it like that; "That DJ LeMahieu is really good in all facets of the game as opposed to that Aaron Judge who just hits bombs" (Note: per FanGraphs, LeMahieu outhit Judge over the last two seasons while Judge was actually the better defensive player. And Judge was the better player per PA).


https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...ate=2020-12-31

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

All players, IMO, should be judged the same, on the number of runs they produce. It matters not whether they add a run offensively or subtract a run on defense (pitching included)

I wonder, is there a stat for that which would cover pitching and defense in terms of runs "produced" (prevented?)? I took a quick look at Runs Created but that measures only hitting productivity.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I wonder, is there a stat for that which would cover pitching and defense in terms of runs "produced" (prevented?)? I took a quick look at Runs Created but that measures only hitting productivity.

Runs above replacement
Which can be converted to WAR

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Runs above replacement
Which can be converted to WAR

You may be slightly amused to know that I am now using WAR (and JAWS) in my game. My conclusion was, as long as you stick to one reliable source providing a consistent calculation of these statistics, they can be useful as yardsticks to compare player performances over time. Just don't look for absolutism across the universe.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

You may be slightly amused to know that I am now using WAR (and JAWS) in my game. My conclusion was, as long as you stick to one reliable source providing a consistent calculation of these statistics, they can be useful as yardsticks to compare player performances over time. Just don't look for absolutism across the universe.

Why would that amuse me?

Given this statement and previous statements you've made, maybe you're using it, but still not understanding it.

The differences in how different systems measure player performance tells us more about the player, not less. If the differences between the systems are understood.

[Déjà Bru]

This article made me smile because it epitomized my own feelings about Masahiro Tanaka.

First, the author says all these things:

The last seven years has been a mixed bag for both Tanaka and the Yankees. Perennial contenders, Tanaka never emerged as a ‘true ace’ who could carry the team akin to a Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, or Madison Bumgarner.

Tanaka was a perfectly adequate pitcher during his time in New York, but never emerged as a stop-gap in the Yankees’ rotation

He never led the league in any category, never earned much Cy Young consideration (his only votes got him seventh place in 2016), and he wasn’t exactly great in the postseason, where he gave up 20 runs in 54 innings (a pedestrian 3.33 ERA and a 3.50 RA9).

The Yankees however are a team that demands excellence, and while Tanaka has been...fine, he’s hardly been what they would have hoped out of an internationally hyped starter.

HOWEVER,

At this point, Tanaka is a 32-year-old mid-rotation starter who will be perfectly suitable for a contender without any illusions that he’s going to be a major difference maker on the roster.

Thus far in his MLB career, Tanaka has been fairly durable. There have been injured list stints, but overall, he’s generally good for 155-190 innings per year.

We’re not really in the business of prognosticating here, but it makes a lot of sense for the Yankees to resign Tanaka. They know exactly what they’re getting both from a statistical and personality standpoint. Tanaka is comfortable with the city, the team, and the expectations, and compared to the other starters highlighting this year’s free agent class, New York could do a lot worse.

Yeah, what he said. All of it.

[Déjà Bru]

Chapman had his suspension reduced by a game, down to two, for "intentionally throwing a pitch at the head area of Tampa Bay’s Mike Brosseau" back on September 1. I am no advocate of violence by any means but this brought a bit of a smile to my face:

Chapman's 101-mph pitch led to some benches-clearing excitement immediately after the game, as well as Rays manager Kevin Cash’s famous thinly veiled threat that he had "a whole damn stable full of guys that throw 98 mph, period."

On the one hand, you cannot give credence to or admire Cash's statement because it was indeed a threat of dangerous retaliation. On the other hand, it hearkens back to times when baseball had ways of policing itself . . .

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

As part of the contraction of the minor leagues, the Yankees are dropping the Charleston (South Carolina) RiverDogs and the Pulaski (Virginia) Yankees. They are also ending their relationship with the Trenton Thunder and Staten Island Yankees which they did not have to do for the purposes of contraction.

Instead, they are picking up the Somerset (NJ) Patriots and Hudson Valley Renegades. The only affiliation that they are leaving alone are the Triple-A RailRiders in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.

Here is what the Yankees’ minor-league hierarchy will look like starting with the 2021 season:

• Triple-A: Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (same)
• Double-A: Somerset (big promotion from the independent Atlantic League)
• High Class A: Hudson Valley (promotion from short-season Class A Rays affiliate)
• Low Class A: Tampa (demotion from Advanced Class A)

Like other clubs, they will keep their complex-based Gulf Coast League and Dominican Summer League teams, which don’t count against the four-per-franchise total.

At least one ballclub is not going quietly.

[Déjà Bru]

I think we may be waving bye-bye to D.J. He and the team are far apart on money. They are looking to move Torres back to second base anyway and there are a bunch of decent shortstops out there available by trade and free agency.

[AirmenSmith]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I think we may be waving bye-bye to D.J. He and the team are far apart on money. They are looking to move Torres back to second base anyway and there are a bunch of decent shortstops out there available by trade and free agency.

I'm all for going out of the park to get DJ but if they don't I would like to see the Yanks get Simmons to play SS and also sign Asdrubal Cabrera.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

I'm all for going out of the park to get DJ but if they don't I would like to see the Yanks get Simmons to play SS and also sign Asdrubal Cabrera.

Why both? $$$ spent on Cabrera seem like a waste if you can get Simmons for comparable money. Simmons is 4 years younger than Cabrera, is a better infielder (which admittedly is saying a lot because Cabrera is no slouch), and does enough at the plate to keep us from cringing. Sure, it would be a severe drop-off offensively from LeMahieu, but at least we can solve the "Can Torres thrive at SS long-term?" problem.

[AirmenSmith]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Why both? $$$ spent on Cabrera seem like a waste if you can get Simmons for comparable money. Simmons is 4 years younger than Cabrera, is a better infielder (which admittedly is saying a lot because Cabrera is no slouch), and does enough at the plate to keep us from cringing. Sure, it would be a severe drop-off offensively from LeMahieu, but at least we can solve the "Can Torres thrive at SS long-term?" problem.

Oh I was saying both as Cabrera would be replacing Wade as the util infielder.

[Déjà Bru]

I don't know how smart this is for a strategy. Then again, I know next to nothing about being a baseball general manager.

General manager Brian Cashman admitted on Tuesday that the Yankees’ offseason plans are basically in a deep freeze until they find out if they can re-sign major league batting champion DJ LeMahieu.

"Certainly, it’s driving the bus a little bit," Cashman said in a virtual Winter Meetings Zoom news conference. "We’re certainly not dipping our toes in various waters until we get a feel for how that declares itself."

Cashman said he understands the risk of putting all his eggs in the LeMahieu basket, but feels the 32-year-old second baseman is "a special player" who is worth leaving the Yankee Stadium lights on for a little longer.

Fortunately,

One move Cashman ruled out making was trading major league home run leader Luke Voit to open up first base for LeMahieu. "I am not pursuing any plan of trying to trade Luke Voit to sign LeMahieu to play first," Cashman said. "That not part of my plan. My plan is, if we sign him, is to play him at second base . . ."

Unfortunately,

. . . which means Gleyber Torres will stay at shortstop, where he was below average defensively in 2020.

[Westheim]

Asdrubal Cabrera on the left side of the infield? That's asking for trouble. He wasn't a good shortstop on the *Mets*, and that's already a few years ago.