Should Any & All Steroid Users Currently Not In The HOF Go In?

[The Game]

Seems I am in the minority from keeping these guys out of the Hall. Just want to see what the % of our members agree or disagree.

[ukhotstove]

Unless they are known users I don't think you should keep them out, innocent till proved guilty. I do however think if they are known users they should be kept out, if you don't then what message is it sendng to kids, use drugs, cheat and you get a pat on the back by going into the HoF.

[CONN CHRIS]

The question, based upon your actual stance, really should be stated "Should we let anyone in that we know or really, really think might have used PEDs in the hall".


I don't think he did, but at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that your big hurt used them too.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

I don't think he did, but at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that your big hurt used them too.

It would surprise me. There is such a thing as a clean player.

[Jason]

Proven, keep them out.

Can't prove it, can't use it as a basis to do it.

[BaseballMan]

Should we keep out a player who doctored the ball? Should we keep out players who did other drugs? Are you really after cheating or because of their stats.
If it's stats I don't think steroids as helped as much on its own as people assume. It may have had an affect but it didn't turn a 25 hr hitter into a 50 hr hitter by itself. As far as helping recover faster that may be true but I'm not sure it helps a player play longer at their peak. Seems ARod, Sosa and McGuire careers kinda took a nose dive real quick but not really different than other players. If steroids was helping wouldn't ARod still be playing at a high level for the next 7 years. He pretty much sucks now. With or without steroids.

[David Watts]

Bud Selig the man in charge of baseball actively promoted the use of steroids. Then a mean mean man with actual talent started using them, because he was sick of seeing the two carnival freaks get all the attention. The mean mean man was/is a very talented baseball player and he embarrassed Mr Selig. I think we have to let them in. Keeping people out based on speculation is just plain wrong. I think we would be surprised if we knew all that used..heck I know we would. I for one wouldn't be stunned to learn the almighty Nolan Ryan used. Not saying he did, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I am 100% behind keeping individuals out that get caught going forward.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Should we keep out a player who doctored the ball? Should we keep out players who did other drugs? Are you really after cheating or because of their stats.
If it's stats I don't think steroids as helped as much on its own as people assume. It may have had an affect but it didn't turn a 25 hr hitter into a 50 hr hitter by itself. As far as helping recover faster that may be true but I'm not sure it helps a player play longer at their peak. Seems ARod, Sosa and McGuire careers kinda took a nose dive real quick but not really different than other players. If steroids was helping wouldn't ARod still be playing at a high level for the next 7 years. He pretty much sucks now. With or without steroids.

Do you know anything about steroids? Yes it did take a 25 HR hitter and turn him into a 50 HR hitter. His name is Sammy Sosa, Sosa wasn't even a 25 HR guy without steroids. Possibly Jose Valentin. Steroids lead to bone, ligament and tendon weakness. Which is why many of steroid users suffer odd injuries. With minimal work in the gym they get stronger and takes a punch & judy hitter like Sosa and turns him into a behemoth for 3 straight 60 HR seasons. Also when did A-Rod stop taking them? Seen a few players that mysteriously fall off the planet. Pretty much any hitter that played for the Moneyball A's.

[jaxmagicman]

There are no rules that would keep them out. The voters are being ignorant of past players and putting their head in the sand as if the sport was ever clean. There isn't an era where players are free from cheating or getting a competitive they wouldn't get now.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Bud Selig the man in charge of baseball actively promoted the use of steroids. Then a mean mean man with actual talent started using them, because he was sick of seeing the two carnival freaks get all the attention. The mean mean man was/is a very talented baseball player and he embarrassed Mr Selig. I think we have to let them in. Keeping people out based on speculation is just plain wrong. I think we would be surprised if we knew all that used..heck I know we would. I for one wouldn't be stunned to learn the almighty Nolan Ryan used. Not saying he did, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I am 100% behind keeping individuals out that get caught going forward.

You really think Bonds was not on steroids?
1989

2001

2013


back to looking like he did pre-steroids.

[David Watts]

Barry is the mean mean guy I was referring to in my post. Baseball loved the whole race to 61(or should it be called 62) and Bud cashed in on it big time. He just didn't foresee what a real talent like Bonds could do by using. It embarrassed him and the fact that Bonds wasn't a media darling only made things worse. So all of a sudden steroids are evil.

The steroid era was also a period effected by expansion. That means weaker pitching. It was a period in which the umpires were for the most part shrinking the strike zone. I have no proof of this, but I also believe the ball were juiced(for lack of a better term) during this period. All of these things led to higher home run/offensive numbers. Baseball cashed in. Roger's record of 61 was broken, just not by the guy baseball wanted it to broken by.

[CD1083]

Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Clemens and Rodriguez will all be kept out for obvious reasons. They are never going to get 75% acceptance before they fall off the ballet.

The real question is what if a player like Ryan Braun goes on a tear post-PED scandal. Is he forever guilty of past crimes and never able to achieve success or do we trust all future achievements?

[rpriske]

Originally Posted by The Game

It would surprise me. There is such a thing as a clean player.

There may be such a thing now, but I do not believe for a second that there was such a thing back when steroids were tacitly encouraged by the league and teams... except for maybe that magical player who never got injured.

Maybe Cal Ripken Jr.

Maybe.

And I would bet that those magically non-injured players used other drugs, like greenies.


I have said before and I will say gain, I have no sympathy for anyone who fails a steroid test NOW. But I think it is HUGELY hypocritical and just straight up unfair to punish players who were trying to do everything they could to help their team at a time when steroids were not regulated by the league.

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by rpriske

There may be such a thing now, but I do not believe for a second that there was such a thing back when steroids were tacitly encouraged by the league and teams... except for maybe that magical player who never got injured.

Maybe Cal Ripken Jr.

Maybe.

And I would bet that those magically non-injured players used other drugs, like greenies.


I have said before and I will say gain, I have no sympathy for anyone who fails a steroid test NOW. But I think it is HUGELY hypocritical and just straight up unfair to punish players who were trying to do everything they could to help their team at a time when steroids were not regulated by the league.

They were regulated by the US Government however. It's not like they were eating Skittles and then one day everybody was like "HEY, don't eat Skittles, they'll turn you into a BEAST!"...ok, now that Skittles are illegal, let's punish Marshawn Lynch for eating them like candy.

Nobody was naive to the fact that what they were doing was unethical and illegal. They might have excused it because others were using as well, but that doesn't make them innocent.

If the supplement an athlete was using, was neither against MLB rules nor illegal, then of course they should not be punished.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Barry is the mean mean guy I was referring to in my post. Baseball loved the whole race to 61(or should it be called 62) and Bud cashed in on it big time. He just didn't foresee what a real talent like Bonds could do by using. It embarrassed him and the fact that Bonds wasn't a media darling only made things worse. So all of a sudden steroids are evil.

The steroid era was also a period effected by expansion. That means weaker pitching. It was a period in which the umpires were for the most part shrinking the strike zone. I have no proof of this, but I also believe the ball were juiced(for lack of a better term) during this period. All of these things led to higher home run/offensive numbers. Baseball cashed in. Roger's record of 61 was broken, just not by the guy baseball wanted it to broken by.

Selig is a huge fan of Hank Aaron so of course he went after Bonds for breaking the record of his baseball hero. Who knows if he would have done so had Big Mac or Griffey had broken it, since they were both well liked by the media also.
70 HR & 73 HR I also agree were in part affected by expansion just as 61 was. But I believe by 2001 the pitching had leveled out some compared to 1998. Bonds did what he did in park that did not favor left handed power. Take the best give him some Flintstone vitamins and he becomes a monster.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by CD1083

They were regulated by the US Government however. It's not like they were eating Skittles and then one day everybody was like "HEY, don't eat Skittles, they'll turn you into a BEAST!"...ok, now that Skittles are illegal, let's punish Marshawn Lynch for eating them like candy.

Nobody was naive to the fact that what they were doing was unethical and illegal. They might have excused it because others were using as well, but that doesn't make them innocent.

If the supplement an athlete was using, was neither against MLB rules nor illegal, then of course they should not be punished.

Unethical and illegal is a pretty pointless line when anyone who used greenies seems to get a pass because that was the culture. Somebody did coke, or gets a DUI that's ok, but steroids were illegal so that's bad. If we want to start using morals for defining greatness on a baseball field the hall is going to be a pretty lonely place.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by The Game

Selig is a huge fan of Hank Aaron so of course he went after Bonds for breaking the record of his baseball hero. Who knows if he would have done so had Big Mac or Griffey had broken it, since they were both well liked by the media also.
70 HR & 73 HR I also agree were in part affected by expansion just as 61 was. But I believe by 2001 the pitching had leveled out some compared to 1998. Bonds did what he did in park that did not favor left handed power. Take the best give him some Flintstone vitamins and he becomes a monster.

But you can't promote the use of Flintstone vitamins and then selectively decide they are bad because someone you don't like starts using them. Bud is about to go on a 30 stadium farewell tour to celebrate his ego and retirement. I hope by the second ballpark he visits the booing of this man is so severe he cancels the rest of his ego trip.

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

Unethical and illegal is a pretty pointless line when anyone who used greenies seems to get a pass because that was the culture. Somebody did coke, or gets a DUI that's ok, but steroids were illegal so that's bad. If we want to start using morals for defining greatness on a baseball field the hall is going to be a pretty lonely place.

None of those drugs 'assisted' the athlete. Completely different discussion.

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by David Watts

But you can't promote the use of Flintstone vitamins and then selectively decide they are bad because someone you don't like starts using them. Bud is about to go on a 30 stadium farewell tour to celebrate his ego and retirement. I hope by the second ballpark he visits the booing of this man is so severe he cancels the rest of his ego trip.

I'm lost...when did Bud promote the usage? Is this factual or just your opinion?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by CD1083

None of those drugs 'assisted' the athlete. Completely different discussion.

You have proof that statement when it comes to greenies?