Can a clean player break the HR record and if so, will they be believed to be clean?

[jazzrack]

who says ruth was clean, it strains credibility to think he was when you take into consideration the existence of enhancers since the 1880's, ruth's illnesses that line right up with what would be expected side-effects from the types of injections used at the time (remember his famous stomach infection that was blamed on hot dogs and beer...please) and his performance over the standard of his day.

Originally Posted by jazzrack

who says ruth was clean, it strains credibility to think he was when you take into consideration the existence of enhancers since the 1880's, ruth's illnesses that line right up with what would be expected side-effects from the types of injections used at the time (remember his famous stomach infection that was blamed on hot dogs and beer...please) and his performance over the standard of his day.

Everything is hot dogs and beer with the Babe. I think it is comical how naive some people are. They seem to think cheating was invented in 1986.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by jazzrack

who says ruth was clean, it strains credibility to think he was when you take into consideration the existence of enhancers since the 1880's, ruth's illnesses that line right up with what would be expected side-effects from the types of injections used at the time (remember his famous stomach infection that was blamed on hot dogs and beer...please) and his performance over the standard of his day.

I think competitive young athletes will always avail themselves of every edge they can get. For instance, Ruth used a "trick bat" for a time that was eventually banned from the game. This is not to prove that he was a "cheater," but simply to say that if a competitive advantage was available, he'd use it.

Speculation about who did what is, well, speculation. Just assume that everybody is always looking for an edge.

The hot dogs-and-beer gag (which I apologize for repeating in this thread -- not meant seriously) reminds me of the quote from "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance," you know, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

I do know that Ruth was a hell of a ballplayer. He could have been a Hall of Famer as a pitcher, and that says a lot to me.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by STL

Everything is hot dogs and beer with the Babe. I think it is comical how naive some people are. They seem to think cheating was invented in 1986.

You continue to flog away at my lame, lighthearted little post. I'll think more carefully in future about what posts I toss off in the wee hours. Meanwhile, I assure you that I was aware of cheating long before that.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

The 60 was hit in 1927 I believe. Maybe the alcohol helped him? I know the higher mound didn't.

Maris hit 61 in the early 60s so I don't know what they had at that time. But whatever it was, it didn't have the same affect on the body as Maris didn't look all that pumped up.

It's hard to say given how baggy the uniforms were in those days. But he certainly wasn't a little guy.

Don't want to hyperlink anything so here is decent photo of him.

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/commu...ongs-hall-fame

[Astros33Resurrected]

Originally Posted by STL

Yeah, that short porch in Yankee stadium was such a bear to put the ball over. 285 foot in Left, 295 foot in Right. There are high school fields bigger than that.

Then he played in Comiskey, Fenway, Tiger Stadium.

Babe Ruth is like that fish you caught when no one was with you. The legend just grows a little each year.

He would be Cecil Fielder if he played today.

I think it's even better to look at the numbers compared to others , Ruth was a monster compared to his peers. In 1928 Babe hit some thing like 54 homeruns while the closest person had 27. Thats double. That would be like Sosa hitting 55 while McGwire hits 110.

[Carlton]

Well to play Devil's Advocate

Babe Ruth had a pitcher's decline in the AL in his 2nd record. Only great pitcher was Lefty Grove and Connie Mack usually skipped him when playing the Yankees

Hank Greenberg would have been, yet they pitched around him so he wouldn't break Babe's record

Chuck Klein had his own owner oppose his HR swing by putting a 40 ft obstacle in RF, so he wouldn't have to pay him a raise

Roger Maris had 2 teams that were AAA level and a longer schedule

Hank Aaron had the benefit of being a DH at the end of his career run (although I still think he would have done it)

Jose Bautista makes a small but significant swing adjustment and the rumors fly

Next person will have an expansion, or new ball or new bat that will put some doubt in his accomplishment

If one takes in historical context, they can make their own judgments. I personally go with Babe Ruth's single season record as the go to and Aaron's career record. I applaud Maris but I know he faced pitching that shouldn't have even been in the league.

[ukhotstove]

In answer to the op, yes I believe someone can break the home run record, players getting stronger, stadiums getting smaller etc. Would anyone believe they were clean? Some will some will not, even if they did every test under the sun and passed you'd still get people saying they were using steriods or such. Heck you still get people saying Elvis is still alive and no doubt will when he would be 150.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by Astros33Resurrected

I think it's even better to look at the numbers compared to others , Ruth was a monster compared to his peers. In 1928 Babe hit some thing like 54 homeruns while the closest person had 27. Thats double. That would be like Sosa hitting 55 while McGwire hits 110.

That's because players prior to Ruth were taught that trying to hit homeruns was foolish. Once he showed that you could hit homeruns with a high frequency, lots of other players started putting up similar numbers.

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

That's because players prior to Ruth were taught that trying to hit homeruns was foolish. Once he showed that you could hit homeruns with a high frequency, lots of other players started putting up similar numbers.

Except in the NL aside from Hornsby (Cy Williams had the same benefit as Gavvy in that band box Baker Bowl) where McGraw and his disciples still loved deadball and were determined to beat Babe with tradition

W/o McGraw I think we would have seen more Ken Williams players pop up in the NL

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by STL

Everything is hot dogs and beer with the Babe. I think it is comical how naive some people are. They seem to think cheating was invented in 1986.

Don't forget Gonnorhea too. Babe probably had the clap at some point.