Let's Talk Defense - Page 5

DonkeyKongSr · 01-13-2019, 09:27 AM

Made an edit to the Google Sheets formulas because I forgot to account for Left-Handed throwers being ineligible for ratings at 2B, 3B, and SS. Sorry if you've been training a LH there!

zrog2000 · 01-13-2019, 01:37 PM

This one is hard to figure out for me. Plus, you cannot see previous seasons for fielding stats. Is this just a bizarrely bad fielding season?

I had a lot of pitchers with terrible BABIPs this season and was trying to figure out why. That zone rating is atrocious for someone with such good fielding ratings.

Izz · 01-13-2019, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrog2000

This one is hard to figure out for me. Plus, you cannot see previous seasons for fielding stats.

Ignore me if I'm missing something, but you can see previous seasons fielding stats:

zrog2000 · 01-13-2019, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izz

Ignore me if I'm missing something, but you can see previous seasons fielding stats:

I missed the tab for career stats. Doh! Thanks. Looks like he had an awful uncharacteristicly bad season.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-13-2019, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrog2000

I missed the tab for career stats. Doh! Thanks. Looks like he had an awful uncharacteristicly bad season.

Do you have some unusual Park Factors? I'm not even sure that would affect ZR, but I can't think of any other settings that would affect OF play.

zrog2000 · 01-13-2019, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

Do you have some unusual Park Factors? I'm not even sure that would affect ZR, but I can't think of any other settings that would affect OF play.

HR 0.9, AVG 1.1 2B,3B 1.5

But they have been that way since bronze league so nothing changed. I think it's just a fluke season.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-13-2019, 03:10 PM

Looking at it more, the rest of his stats don't look unusually bad. Maybe a bit low, but not clearly worse. ZR is such a weird stat that I still don't fully understand, so perhaps he did OK. Filter for CF in your league and see where his ZR ranks.

Izz · 01-13-2019, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrog2000

I missed the tab for career stats. Doh! Thanks. Looks like he had an awful uncharacteristicly bad season.

I find the advanced fielding stats (under View) interesting. Plays are broken down according to difficulty, with a percentage indicator showing how many plays the player made in that difficulty range.

bobbycockstrong · 01-13-2019, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrog2000

HR 0.9, AVG 1.1 2B,3B 1.5

But they have been that way since bronze league so nothing changed. I think it's just a fluke season.

Did you use those factors in the previous seasons as well? perhaps it has something to do with the high 2B and 3B. If the game is generating more doubles and triples, then wouldnt the CF be making less plays on balls hit to the outfield? I know ZR is supposed to compare against a baseline of other defenders making the play or not, but maybe somehow 1.5 2B/3B park factor is causing something and treating more balls as "unlikely" or something.

omniart · 01-13-2019, 03:23 PM

To quote from the OOTP Glossary:

Quote:

"Zone Rating" - developed by John Dewan, A player gets credit (a "plus" number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season, and he loses credit (a "minus" number) if he misses a play that at least one player made. The size of the credit is directly related to how often players make the play. Each play is looked at individually, and a score is given for each play. Sum up all the plays for each player at his position and you get his total plus/minus for the season. A total plus/minus score near zero means the player is average. A score above zero is above average and a negative score is below average.

As I understand it, Zone Rating is more like ERA+ or some other measure that compares a single player to a league average. This means that a fielder can perform exactly the same, but if other fielders at his position are poor, his zone rating will be higher, and if other fielders at his position are good, his zone rating will be lower.

I just looked up my CF Richie Ashburn career fielding stats. Compare his stats from two seasons ago in Gold League versus this season in Perfect League:

Code:

league       IP   TC   PO   A  E  DP    PCT    RF    EFF     ZR
DIAMOND  1333.0  516  504  12  0   3  1.000  3.48  1.039  +17.1
PERFECT  1334.2  522  505  15  2   4   .996  3.51  1.042  + 6.3

Virtually identical underlying stats, but the competition* in Perfect League draws Ashburn back to the pack.

*Number of Mike Trouts.

zrog2000 · 01-13-2019, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbycockstrong

Did you use those factors in the previous seasons as well? perhaps it has something to do with the high 2B and 3B. If the game is generating more doubles and triples, then wouldnt the CF be making less plays on balls hit to the outfield? I know ZR is supposed to compare against a baseline of other defenders making the play or not, but maybe somehow 1.5 2B/3B park factor is causing something and treating more balls as "unlikely" or something.

No, the factors stayed the same in all seasons.

zrog2000 · 01-13-2019, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omniart

To quote from the OOTP Glossary:

As I understand it, Zone Rating is more like ERA+ or some other measure that compares a single player to a league average. This means that a fielder can perform exactly the same, but if other fielders at his position are poor, his zone rating will be higher, and if other fielders at his position are good, his zone rating will be lower.

I just looked up my CF Richie Ashburn career fielding stats. Compare his stats from two seasons ago in Gold League versus this season in Perfect League:

Code:

league       IP   TC   PO   A  E  DP    PCT    RF    EFF     ZR
DIAMOND  1333.0  516  504  12  0   3  1.000  3.48  1.039  +17.1
PERFECT  1334.2  522  505  15  2   4   .996  3.51  1.042  + 6.3

Virtually identical underlying stats, but the competition* in Perfect League draws Ashburn back to the pack.

*Number of Mike Trouts.

That makes sense. I just can't imagine that Robles would be below average at any level let alone diamond, which is what a negative ZR means. I still think it's mainly just a blip. Advanced defensive stats don't stabilize for 2 full seasons anyway.

zrog2000 · 01-13-2019, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izz

I find the advanced fielding stats (under View) interesting. Plays are broken down according to difficulty, with a percentage indicator showing how many plays the player made in that difficulty range.

Well those stats aren't kept for previous seasons unfortunately.

omniart · 01-13-2019, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrog2000

That makes sense. I just can't imagine that Robles would be below average at any level let alone diamond, which is what a negative ZR means. I still think it's mainly just a blip. Advanced defensive stats don't stabilize for 2 full seasons anyway.

Yeah, looking at his efficiency, it does like rather like a blip. His 1.013 defensive efficiency this season is much lower than his efficiency in any previous season.

Izz · 01-13-2019, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrog2000

Well those stats aren't kept for previous seasons unfortunately.

Yep, that's a bit annoying. My guess would be that he made a few less 'likely' plays this season than in previous years, which could account for a lower efficiency rating.

All in all, though, just a blip, I reckon.

Maddox · 01-13-2019, 07:19 PM

So here is the Pitching outcome thus far for my Defensive team in the Entry League. Really the only take away I see here is that there is just something about Carlos Martinez beyond the walks which just does not translate.

Among my starters, looking at the BABIP stat they rank like this

Kyle Freeland (GB Pitcher) .238
Sad SamJones (Ex FB) .251
Dennis Martinez (Neutral) .277
Bob Ojeda (FB) .285
Carlos Martinez .314

Looking at the bottom three in that list there is one common trait that I do see. They all have at least one pitch type that they are just bad at (<50 rating)

Oh, and I can find no reason that Roberto Osuna should perform that poorly in an entry league with a very good defense behind him.

Thanks to an 18 game winning streak though I have about 7,000 points that I could use to make the rotation better.

bobbycockstrong · 01-13-2019, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

So here is the Pitching outcome thus far for my Defensive team in the Entry League. Really the only take away I see here is that there is just something about Carlos Martinez beyond the walks which just does not translate.

Among my starters, looking at the BABIP stat they rank like this

Kyle Freeland (GB Pitcher) .238
Sad SamJones (Ex FB) .251
Dennis Martinez (Neutral) .277
Bob Ojeda (FB) .285
Carlos Martinez .314

Looking at the bottom three in that list there is one common trait that I do see. They all have at least one pitch type that they are just bad at (<50 rating)

Oh, and I can find no reason that Roberto Osuna should perform that poorly in an entry league with a very good defense behind him.

Thanks to an 18 game winning streak though I have about 7,000 points that I could use to make the rotation better.

Because relievers only have a small number of innings pitched, all it takes is one or two awful games and you have bloated stats. So i would think that is likely what happened (a few really bad games) and its an outlier that will correct itself as the season goes on or next season. Especially at entry/bronze.

Maddox · 01-14-2019, 09:47 AM

My team is now in a Bronze league. I replaced Carlos Martinez with Red Faber and Dennis Martinez with another pitcher (whose name I have forgotten). Both the new pitchers are Extreme Flyball pitchers to go along with Sad Sam Jones who is also Extreme Flyball pitcher and was my best pitcher in 190 or so games in the entry league.

stl jason · 01-14-2019, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

My team is now in a Bronze league. I replaced Carlos Martinez with Red Faber and Dennis Martinez with another pitcher (whose name I have forgotten). Both the new pitchers are Extreme Flyball pitchers to go along with Sad Sam Jones who is also Extreme Flyball pitcher and was my best pitcher in 190 or so games in the entry league.

Sam shouldn't be so sad.... he's 38-18 for me in the past 2 seasons (maybe it's the opposing team that's sad to see him)

Maddox · 01-14-2019, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stl jason

Sam shouldn't be so sad.... he's 38-18 for me in the past 2 seasons (maybe it's the opposing team that's sad to see him)

Seeing him on your team (I think it was your team) was one of the reasons that I started looking for him on the Auction House.

01-13-2019, 01:37 PM	#82
zrog2000 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,335	This one is hard to figure out for me. Plus, you cannot see previous seasons for fielding stats. Is this just a bizarrely bad fielding season? I had a lot of pitchers with terrible BABIPs this season and was trying to figure out why. That zone rating is atrocious for someone with such good fielding ratings. Attached Images

01-13-2019, 07:19 PM	#96
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	So here is the Pitching outcome thus far for my Defensive team in the Entry League. Really the only take away I see here is that there is just something about Carlos Martinez beyond the walks which just does not translate. Among my starters, looking at the BABIP stat they rank like this Kyle Freeland (GB Pitcher) .238 Sad SamJones (Ex FB) .251 Dennis Martinez (Neutral) .277 Bob Ojeda (FB) .285 Carlos Martinez .314 Looking at the bottom three in that list there is one common trait that I do see. They all have at least one pitch type that they are just bad at (<50 rating) Oh, and I can find no reason that Roberto Osuna should perform that poorly in an entry league with a very good defense behind him. Thanks to an 18 game winning streak though I have about 7,000 points that I could use to make the rotation better. Attached Images Last edited by Maddox; 01-13-2019 at 07:21 PM.

01-13-2019, 09:27 AM	#81
DonkeyKongSr All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 777	Made an edit to the Google Sheets formulas because I forgot to account for Left-Handed throwers being ineligible for ratings at 2B, 3B, and SS. Sorry if you've been training a LH there!

01-13-2019, 03:10 PM	#87
DonkeyKongSr All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 777	Looking at it more, the rest of his stats don't look unusually bad. Maybe a bit low, but not clearly worse. ZR is such a weird stat that I still don't fully understand, so perhaps he did OK. Filter for CF in your league and see where his ZR ranks.

01-14-2019, 09:47 AM	#98
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	My team is now in a Bronze league. I replaced Carlos Martinez with Red Faber and Dennis Martinez with another pitcher (whose name I have forgotten). Both the new pitchers are Extreme Flyball pitchers to go along with Sad Sam Jones who is also Extreme Flyball pitcher and was my best pitcher in 190 or so games in the entry league.