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02-13-2007, 12:25 PM | #21 |
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02-14-2007, 12:20 PM | #22 |
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BB Pro's Jay Jaffe proffers his two cents on the Bernie Williams situation.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=192 |
02-14-2007, 01:28 PM | #23 |
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I have to agree with him on a couple of points. Bernie really does not want to play anywhere else, and he would have value to other teams only as DH anyway because his defense has fallen way off. I read someplace that he makes the Yankees in 2007 only if Giambi gets hurt, and only as part-time DH. If one of the OFers gets hurt, they bring up Reese or Thompson to backup instead.
Given this, and the obvious hints that the Yankees are giving him, he should retire gracefully as Jaffe says. But, I think Williams is hoping for some miracle and the Yanks will not mind that attitude if he keeps himself in shape and bides his time. That way, he's like insurance. EDIT: I also agree with his initial opinion about Williams and the HoF. I love Bernie, but he's not HoF, sorry. Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 02-14-2007 at 01:39 PM. |
02-15-2007, 10:01 AM | #24 |
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Bernie definitely falls way short of the Hall of Fame.
If perhaps he became the 30-HR hitter he was building to become then yes. But, instead he was a 20-HR guy and it made his best years look above average. He was consistent, but not consistently great. He'll be honored by the Yankees and as one of their best CFers of all-time. But, that's where the recognition ends in terms of baseball. |
02-15-2007, 10:45 AM | #25 | |
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2. I'll take the .400+ OBP with 25 HR's over the 30 dingers every day and twice on Sunday. Add in his glove, and Bernie was a great player in his prime. 3. As he should be, as Bernie may well be one of the 10 best to play that position in almost 150 years of major league baseball. |
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02-15-2007, 11:01 AM | #26 |
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I hope Bernie decides to come to camp. Somehow, Torre and Cashmen will go north with 5 outfielders instead of 3 or 4 first basemen. In in a limited role, he could have a big part of this team...maybe.
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02-15-2007, 11:03 AM | #27 |
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I'd definitely induct Bernie.
Quick and dirty list of CFs in history (negro leagues notwithstanding) who I think I'd put in before Bernie: Mays Cobb Speaker Mantle DiMaggio Griffey Snider I'd probably put him slightly above Jimmy Wynn, Wally Berger, and Billy Hamilton. I don't think there's anyone else though even using the HBA as a little guide to find people to compare. |
02-15-2007, 02:20 PM | #28 | |
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Though, I'm sure people will argue that Bernie didn't deserve the Gold Gloves he received, he has them. And yea, he benefits from an extra round of playoffs, but so did other players in his time and yet there he is on the top of many statistical categories. So, I agree that he isn't way off. He likely just falls short. I mention the 30 HRs because I wonder if in 6 years the writers will want to remember him for his consistency despite his lack of being a statistical leader year in and year out. Of course, there is also the CF argument that you bring up and you're right. I was definitely thinking of Bernie as an OF when it came to the HOF, but as a CF for the Yankees. I should consider him as a CF in HOF balloting and hopefully the writers do the same. |
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02-15-2007, 02:23 PM | #30 | |
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02-15-2007, 06:14 PM | #31 |
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Bernie's going to make the Hall of Fame eventually. The gaudy postseason counting stats will win over the guys who aren't sophisticated enough to realize how amazing it is to have seven straight seasons of .900+ OPS for a good defensive center fielder.
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02-16-2007, 02:04 PM | #32 |
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My respect for Mussina went up a few points when he again called out Pavano for needing to prove something to his teammates. Pavano was trying to gloss over the issue, calling it media hype, but Mussina would have none of it.
Mussina quotes about Pavano: "I'm just looking at it from the way each thing happened and the timing of each. You form your own evaluation. It didn't look good from a players' and teammates' standpoint. It didn't look good. Was everything just coincidence? Over and over again? I don't know." "It got to a point where we didn't even want to hear about it or talk about it." "He needs to show a lot of people that he wants to go out there and pitch for us . . . We need him to pitch." Sounds like a team leader talking. And sometimes talking to the media is a lot more powerful than a private conversation. Pavano needs a kick in the butt, but figuratively, not literally. We don't need him to aggravate that injury again. |
02-16-2007, 03:25 PM | #33 |
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It would be nice to have a healthy Pavano in the rotation this year, but there is no way I'll bank on it. I'll agree that it's great to see Mussina calling him out on this.
As for Bernie, it would be great to see him on the roster, but I'm figuring he'll not accept the minor league offer and walk away. It'll be sad not to see Bernie in pinstripes, but it's been a great run. I remember when the decision was made to keep him and trade Kelly for O'Neill I also heard Torre state that Hughes will not start the season on the ML roster.
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02-17-2007, 11:58 AM | #34 | |
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As far as Pavano, he and Mussina have met privately and came out smiling. Everything is rosy, until Pavano slips in the shower, reinjures his butt, and is out for any extended amount of time. |
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02-17-2007, 06:57 PM | #35 |
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I still say that Bernie should have spent more time learning 1B as soon as his ability to play the field began diminishing.
Players have to be proactive in sports. I love Bernie, but it's also partly his fault he's in this situation. |
02-17-2007, 07:36 PM | #36 |
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Bernie could probably still play an adequate corner OF. It's his bat that's lacking so much that it would be counter productive to put him there at this point. That problem would be even worse if he were slotted in at 1B.
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02-17-2007, 08:10 PM | #37 |
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Well, his bat is better than Phillips'/Phelps'/Mientkiewicz's. If the Yankees insist on having Giambi DH, Bernie would be as good a bat to slot into that 1B slot (assuming the hypothetical universe where he had ever learned to play it) as any of their other options. Of course, that says a lot more about the hole in the Yankee lineup than the quality of his bat.
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02-17-2007, 09:22 PM | #38 | |
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Considering the Yankees situation at 1B, if Bernie had learned the position, the Yanks would likely have forgotten about adding Doug and Phelps and would have given Bernie the chance to play there everyday. |
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02-17-2007, 09:37 PM | #39 |
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Mientkiewicz had a higher EQA last year by a couple points and has always been a good gloveman at 1b. I have a hard time buying Bernie as a better starting option there. I do agree that he'd be more useful than Phillips/Phelps filling in at 1b/OF/DH.
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02-17-2007, 09:44 PM | #40 |
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Yea, I should have said, "The Yankees probably would have considered Bernie for the 1B platoon."
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