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OOTP 14 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 04-16-2013, 06:20 PM   #1
MightyQuinn
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Is the history accurate on OOTP14 ?

I was thinking of starting from the begining, so I looked at the teams created for the 1871 season...

I went online and noticed that there were 9 teams in 1871.

These teams match
Philadelphia Athletics
Chicago White Stockings
Boston Red Stockings
Cleveland Forest City (In OOTP14 listed as Citys)

OOTP14 - 1871
Baltimore Canaries
St. Louis Brown Stockings
Brooklyn Atlantics
Cincinnati Reds

Real History - 1871
Washington Olympics
Troy Haymakers
New York Mutuals
Ft. Wayne Kekiongas
Rockford Forest City

Did I set something wrong that the teams arent accurate ?
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:55 PM   #2
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I believe OOTP does not get teams and expansion correct until 1901. I think it is correct past from 1901 on.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:02 PM   #3
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We really need a sticky in this forum to warn all users that you absolutely CANNOT use OOTP to simulate the full history of MLB dating back to 1871.

The only way you can conduct a historically accurate simulation is to start in 1901. Any starting year before that season will not give you the correct rules of the game, let alone correct clubs, rosters, lineups, statistical output, and transactions.

The sport was too fluid during those first three decades, and there were many franchises that folded, moved, changed leagues, etc. That's just one aspect of the early years that can't be modeled. There are many others.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:09 PM   #4
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thanks for the info...
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Hough View Post
We really need a sticky in this forum to warn all users that you absolutely CANNOT use OOTP to simulate the full history of MLB dating back to 1871.
That's a bit harsh -- "absolutely CANNOT use." I've done it many times. It certainly is possible. Is it possible without manual work? No, certainly not. But it is possible, and those of us who enjoy it also enjoy discussing our attempts with others who enjoy it. So a sticky dissuading someone from such an attempt would not be of much overall benefit.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Hough View Post
We really need a sticky in this forum to warn all users that you absolutely CANNOT use OOTP to simulate the full history of MLB dating back to 1871.

The only way you can conduct a historically accurate simulation is to start in 1901. Any starting year before that season will not give you the correct rules of the game, let alone correct clubs, rosters, lineups, statistical output, and transactions.

The sport was too fluid during those first three decades, and there were many franchises that folded, moved, changed leagues, etc. That's just one aspect of the early years that can't be modeled. There are many others.

You can get close to it, if you're really, really patient and willing to make major changes to your league by hand. Adding and removing all the different clubs each year, moving the players around, changing some of the rules and modifiers.

It's a major project to do so, one that's too daunting for most people to even attempt. Even if you do so, there will be a lot that's not perfect.

But it is possible and it's actually pretty fun, if you're an ocd, slightly insane, early baseball fan with too much time on their hands.

Last edited by Lukas Berger; 04-16-2013 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:37 PM   #7
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Corrected:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Hough View Post
We really need a sticky in this forum to warn all users that you absolutely CANNOT use OOTP to accurately simulate the full history of MLB dating back to 1871.
This was the point of the OP. The question is whether the history is accurate when you use OOTP to simulate MLB from 1871 onward. The answer is that it is not, and it's impossible to achieve what most people mean by accuracy.

When you can't even get balls, strikes, strikeouts, and walks to be awarded and counted as they were in real life, it's a non-starter. Right away, your statistical output is going to be skewed. And that's only the beginning of the issues, even if you spend many hours painstakingly editing and modifying the game in an effort to simulate baseball from 1871 onward.

Yes, you technically simulate a vague approximation of the professional baseball world beginning in 1871 and moving forward, but you can't accurately simulate the real life Major Leagues when beginning from that point.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:01 AM   #8
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I disagree. If you use the real teams and real schedules, transactions I don't think the stats are that far off any more than 19th century. After all it doesn't matter how many strikes it takes for a K the game still sees a K.
Problem is with all the different leagues and teams it may be better to use a separate database of rookies for each league. Otherwise they all would end up in AL or NL due to abbreviation limit. If its separate and you only have rookies for the players league in that database you shouldn't see Union Association teams or players in that league. Except for transactions.

It's just easier for newbies to use the ootp way because even if they set up the first year what if someone wants to start in a later year with an d number of teams.
But I don't think stats are far off. If you have Radbourn getting 80 wins then maybe its the schedule or something like that.
I do wonder if a player who pitched 600 innings is compared to a player who pitched 200 for that year or is he compared to a modern pitcher for fatigue.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:59 AM   #9
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For people new to the game, it's probably appropriate to explain it as Charlie did. The 19th century is a fair amount to work if you want accurate outputs, teams, schedules, etc. It's good to note that when that work is done you can get a pretty solid approximation, but the dozen or so people who care about this will find a way to get the information to anyone who's truly willing to take it on.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:08 PM   #10
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Hey, there are more than a dozen of us. There has to be at least 15, 16!
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:17 PM   #11
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I have attempted to do a 1871 - 1901 league but with fictional players vs real. I gave up at 1875. This will be my 1st new league on 14 so I dont have to manually change the logos and uniforms myself. I dont know if the default or Spritz DB will bring players to teh accurate teams in 1872, I know it wont for 1871. I might try and place them automatically during the Inaugural draft.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:09 AM   #12
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I have played more OOTP pre-1901 than post 1901. Talk about a daunting, fun, frustrating, satisfying game. I've played it with all the extra leagues, without the extra leagues, manual transactions, computer transactions, free agents, no free agents and everything in between. It is hard. I would not suggest it for the new OOTP player. But to even suggest to someone that an actual "history" can't be created is not accurate. It's not going to mirror real life, but neither will your post 1901 league. You just got to want it.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:43 PM   #13
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Not sure if I said this before in this thread but I tried once to get it 100% accurate then release a QS at 1901. I got to 1874 and gave up. Now I am just doing fictional players, minus minorities with real teams, parks, & leagues.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by WFIL73 View Post
It is hard. I would not suggest it for the new OOTP player. But to even suggest to someone that an actual "history" can't be created is not accurate.
That's not what was suggested. Yes, you can create some semblance of a "history", but it's not going to be accurate, which was the keyword in the thread title. And the OP seemed concerned that, out of the box, OOTP did not even have the teams correct for 1871, so right away there appears to be a problem with the most fundamental elements needed for historical accuracy.

When people ask about historical accuracy in the game, it is almost never the case that they're asking if it's possible for the user to spend hours customizing the game to get there. It's to ask if OOTP offers it out of the box, which is does not for pre-1901 saved games.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFIL73 View Post
I have played more OOTP pre-1901 than post 1901. Talk about a daunting, fun, frustrating, satisfying game. I've played it with all the extra leagues, without the extra leagues, manual transactions, computer transactions, free agents, no free agents and everything in between. It is hard. I would not suggest it for the new OOTP player. But to even suggest to someone that an actual "history" can't be created is not accurate. It's not going to mirror real life, but neither will your post 1901 league. You just got to want it.
I want pitchers who play a field postition, except days they pitch - that's 19th century baseball I want players who are also the team manager

I've gotten realistic consistent pre-1900 season stats with a little hard work.
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