Minor League Statistics - Spritze - Page 3

AESP_pres · 01-11-2010, 01:57 AM

I probably do something wrong (wouldn't be the first time

), but everytime I try to start a league using your database all the players fielding are weird. Some aren't rated on their primary position and all the rating are bad (1 or 2 on a 20 rating scale) and the exact same thing happen with the Gambo database.

Just an exemple

I use the neutralized stat to create the league and use the entire career option for the player fielding and pitcher stamina.

I would sure like to know what is the problem since I really want to use your database since the one with the game doesn't had enough young player by year and they are created major league ready.

Spritze · 01-11-2010, 01:14 PM

I don't Use Neutralized stats nor career fielding when I use the Spritze db.

Because

The extra player years are already neutralized when using the standard db as are the fielding ratings.

I do plan on creating a neutered version of the db in the next go round.

crisscee · 02-21-2010, 01:28 AM

Spritze

I was trying to import individual records out of the Free Agent screen from your Minor League database, but keep getting an "import failed" message whatever I try. I tried deleting the League and Team IDs, but that didn't help.

I like to have the more recent prior historical years' minor league history for the new players, and was hoping I could use this database, since there doesn't appear to be any mods that allow me to edit minor league history stats like there were back in 6.5. Is there something else can to do to get the record to download?

Spritze · 02-21-2010, 10:12 PM

This db only covers 1943 thru 1974 so far.

As to the crash, this is likely the culprit: There is an invisible ascii character imbedded in the country of birth for this player
open whaterver master.csv you are using and find (ctl+F) itois77. You will see a large space.

7675,ItoIs77,,,1942,5,5,"
Japan",,,,,,,,,Isao,Ito,,,,

Simpy go to where is says "Japan" and backspace it should now be

7675,ItoIs77,,,1942,5,5,"Japan",,,,,,,,,Isao,Ito,, ,,180,

Save the file problem solved...

suzerain · 02-26-2010, 01:46 AM

This really looks great. I tend to run fictional leagues, but with randomized historical players using a utility I wrote to randomize the Lahman database, and the problem with only importing major leaguers was that the minor leagues were mostly empty, or filled with guys who ought to be in the Majors.

I was wondering a couple of things: do you have any plans to go beyond 1974 or interest in merging this with the Korean league dataset that someone else has posted?

Spritze · 02-26-2010, 03:30 PM

I will be adding 1,974 Korean players to the world once I fix up that Korean dataset. It has too much missing to work as is but I have an expert system I coded that should fix that up. It is the same one used for the neutralised stats that come with the game.

terpsfan101 · 02-27-2010, 04:56 AM

Spritze, I tried to reach you by sending an email to PadresFan. He replied that he wasn't Spritze, and said he didn't know your email. So I will just post the email I mistakengly sent here:

I am currently enjoying your minor league unadulterated minor league stats tables. I was wondering if you still had the raw numbers that you used (no estimates). For most seasons you had to estimate IBB, SF, CS, HRA, etc... and less often it looks like you had to estimate batter BB and SO, RBI, BFP. However, some statistics are so well estimated that it is impossible to know whether or not it is an estimate, especially since I don't know exactly which stats were tracked by each league during a given season.

This might interest you. I've spent the last two months working on a souped up version of the Baseball Databank database. So far, I've filled in many statistical gaps (like missing HBP, WP, SH/SF Allowed, BFP data), corrected numerous statistical errors, and added non-traditional statistics like RBOE (reached on error), Pickoffs, 2B and 3B allowed. I'll send you a copy when I'm finished (hopefully in the next month or so). You might also enjoy my pro basketball database that I finally released a few months ago (it took me 3 years to piece it together). The database contains complete statistics for the NBA/BAA (1946-2009), NBL (1938-1949), ABA (1968-1976), ABL (1962, 1963), PBLA (1948), and NPBL (1951). Not forgetting the ladies, it also has complete statistics for the WNBA (1997-2009), and ABL (1997-1999). It also contains statistics for the Italian League (1986-2008), CBA (1991-2009), NBA D-League (2002-2009), USBL (1996-2007), IBL (2000, 2001), IBA (2000, 2001). You can download my database here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?tzutmuktdtm

Again, let me know if you still have your minor leage data, without the estimates, somewhere on your computer.

Thanks,

Dave

Spritze · 02-27-2010, 08:06 AM

Sorry but the estimates are in the raw data as the program fills it in as it goes based on about a gazillion criteria. When I finish with the known data I tell the expert system I coded to fill in the rest. Since you know what data is available for what year you could create a program to delete the estimated data.

The db is meant to be a starting point for game play, not a baseball db, a baseball game db, I started putting it together in 1996. The reason was when I was a kid my next door neighbor who had played 7 games with the Red Sox in the 1950's got short shrift in the games of the times but he had stories that covered like 20 years of playing baseball and I also cut the grass for Hub Kittle as well and he was still in the game after like 40 years but never showed up at all. So I created this just so I could play their careers out. It just sorta grew after that.

rogmax11 · 02-27-2010, 11:49 AM

Spritze, your database tool thingy would be a wonderful addition to the game. I wonder if you and Markus would consider including it as an optional source within the structure of OOTP itself? Sure would add richness to the gaming experience in my humble opinion.

terpsfan101 · 02-27-2010, 04:33 PM

Spritze, you said: “Since you know what data is available for what year you could create a program to delete the estimated data.”

Well, this may be true for major league baseball. We have a pretty good idea of what statistics were tracked both officially and unofficially for each season. But this would be a nightmare to try and figure out for the minor leagues. Most minor leagues have kept the same stats as MLB since the around the 50’s. There may be some exceptions, like some leagues not tracking IBB, and CS, GIDP for certain seasons. You can pretty much assume that all IBB and GIDP data prior to the 1950’s is estimated. The same goes with most CS data. As far as batter BB, batter SO, and RBI go, well you would need a complete set of TSN/Spalding/Reach Baseball guides to figure out what was tracked for each league and each season. Even if a stat wasn’t tracked officially, it may still be based on actual data (like RBI), thanks to the extensive research members of SABR have done on minor league data. And I don’t even want to think about trying to figure this out for pitchers and fielders.

Spritze, I noticed a problem with your custom databases that you might want to fix. regarding your custom databases (this applies to versions 10.4 of your database and the older version you posted back in June). No players are affiliated with Montreal Expos from 1969-2004. But, you do have a few players affiliated with the Nationals since 2005. Also, there are no St. Louis Cardinals for players who debuted around 1997/1998 or later. Players who have played their entire career for the Cardinals since then (Pujols, Schumaker, Wainwright, etc…) are listed as free agents. One more request (I don’t want to sound greedy) do you have any plans on releasing a version of your database using neutralized MLB statistics. As it stands, your database does not work properly if you choose to base ratings on neutralized stats. Players not listed in the neutralized table import with terrible ratings.

I know I keep shifting topics here. In my last post, I mentioned I was working on a souped up version of the Baseball Databank/Lahman Database. Good news, I am starting to make real progress. It should be finished in about a week or so. I’ll leave you with a teaser, my teams table. Most of the column headings should be recognizable. I recommend you download this table as a CSV, or Excel file, and then resize the columns. Here’s the link:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AvzWnFsJW1lhdFFGd0JnMXFENjFxTnhxZzlGUEZHd Gc&hl=en

Spritze · 02-27-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terpsfan101

you would need a complete set of TSN/Spalding/Reach Baseball guides to figure out what was tracked for each league and each season.

I have this.... 1884-2009, Reach, Spalding,Sporting News, Baseball America etc.

The version for OOTP 11 will have neuts. The OOTPx version does not have neuts hence the poor player ratings when you choose to use the stats that do not exist to produce ratings.

The team thing is because Mr. Lahman changes the team abbrev. whenever he feels like it. This has been updated in the db. I did not realize he did that every year. I created a process to update the old team data every time he changes it from now on.

terpsfan101 · 02-28-2010, 12:31 AM

It sounds like you have the ultimate baseball library. I have thought about obtaining some of the old Spalding/Reach guides that aren't posted online. That is until I found out how expensive they sell for. Even the reprints are costly. There are about 20-25 Spalding Guides from 1889-1939 posted on the internet. All of the Reach Guides from 1902-1911 are available on the internet as well, along with the TSN guides from 1943-1950. The funny thing about the Spalding guides is that some years they published complete minor league stats in their guides and some years they published no minor league stats in their guides. There really isn't any pattern to it. It looks like they started publishing full minor league stats every year (no gaps) sometime in the 1920's.

I have one more question about your custom databse. When you determine a player's primary team for his career, are you using the franchiseID instead of the teamID.

Spritze · 02-28-2010, 08:39 AM

Team ID, they were goofy due to Lahman changing them willy-nilly. So Koufax will start on the Brooklyn Dodgers. Ruth on the Yankees. That was how it were supposed to be, he just caught me napping as he changed them team ID's.

Spritze · 02-28-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzerain

do you have any plans to go beyond 1974 or interest in merging this with the Korean league dataset that someone else has posted?

I am currently finishing the 1940's then I plan on finishing the 1970's and then the 1930's and then the 1980's and so on and so on.

This db has been merged with the Japanese db that is available in the mods forum and will be merged with the Korean db once that is tested.

Just finished the OOTPx version that includes the neutralized stats option.

Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send it to all interested people who are interested in receiving it receptionally.

crisscee · 03-01-2010, 12:06 AM

Spritze;

Thanks for the suggestion. Thought I had made that adjustment to Itois77 based on your earlier postings, but I'll try again. I also figured, since I was trying to import the record of a single player for 1965 through the Free Agent screen, the issue with the Ito record wouldn't affect the record I wanted.

terpsfan101 · 03-02-2010, 12:39 AM

Thanks for the neutralized DB Spritze. You also fixed the issue where there were no Expos players and no late 90's-2000's Cardinals. Thanks again!

terpsfan101 · 03-02-2010, 01:34 AM

There are still some issues with team affiliations. Not a big deal, I can probably fix them myself. I started a league in 1920, and noticed several Brooklyn Dodgers in the free-agent pool. I took a look at the database tables, and the Dodgers appearing as free agents had LAD (the franchise ID) under teamID and AA under lgID. I can understand the team-franchise mixup, but I don't understand the league mixups. I'll have to look deeper into this problem tomorrow.

terpsfan101 · 03-02-2010, 01:39 AM

I believe I found the problem related to the league ID's. All current major league teams who began in the American Association (Cardinals, Pirates, Reds, and Dodgers) have AA listed under lgID in most seasons.

Spritze · 03-02-2010, 10:13 AM

Well, how do you like them apples? I'll fix this today.

terpsfan101 · 03-02-2010, 01:40 PM

Rather than try to fix the teamID's, you'd probably be better off to start assigning them from scratch. I've found a lot of inconsistencies, especially in the 19th century, that I can't resolve using your modified teams table. For instance, Henry Porter has teamID of MIL (Milwaukee). He played in 11 games for the Milwaukee Union Association Club in 1884, 142 games for Brooklyn, and 59 games for the Kansas City Cowboys.

01-11-2010, 01:57 AM	#41
AESP_pres Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 3,700 Blog Entries: 25	I probably do something wrong (wouldn't be the first time ), but everytime I try to start a league using your database all the players fielding are weird. Some aren't rated on their primary position and all the rating are bad (1 or 2 on a 20 rating scale) and the exact same thing happen with the Gambo database. Just an exemple I use the neutralized stat to create the league and use the entire career option for the player fielding and pitcher stamina. I would sure like to know what is the problem since I really want to use your database since the one with the game doesn't had enough young player by year and they are created major league ready. Last edited by AESP_pres; 01-11-2010 at 01:58 AM.

02-21-2010, 01:28 AM	#43
crisscee Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7	Can't Import Individual Record From Free Agent Screen? Spritze I was trying to import individual records out of the Free Agent screen from your Minor League database, but keep getting an "import failed" message whatever I try. I tried deleting the League and Team IDs, but that didn't help. I like to have the more recent prior historical years' minor league history for the new players, and was hoping I could use this database, since there doesn't appear to be any mods that allow me to edit minor league history stats like there were back in 6.5. Is there something else can to do to get the record to download?

02-21-2010, 10:12 PM	#44
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	This db only covers 1943 thru 1974 so far. As to the crash, this is likely the culprit: There is an invisible ascii character imbedded in the country of birth for this player open whaterver master.csv you are using and find (ctl+F) itois77. You will see a large space. 7675,ItoIs77,,,1942,5,5," Japan",,,,,,,,,Isao,Ito,,,, Simpy go to where is says "Japan" and backspace it should now be 7675,ItoIs77,,,1942,5,5,"Japan",,,,,,,,,Isao,Ito,, ,,180, Save the file problem solved... Last edited by Spritze; 02-21-2010 at 10:16 PM.

02-27-2010, 08:06 AM	#48
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Sorry but the estimates are in the raw data as the program fills it in as it goes based on about a gazillion criteria. When I finish with the known data I tell the expert system I coded to fill in the rest. Since you know what data is available for what year you could create a program to delete the estimated data. The db is meant to be a starting point for game play, not a baseball db, a baseball game db, I started putting it together in 1996. The reason was when I was a kid my next door neighbor who had played 7 games with the Red Sox in the 1950's got short shrift in the games of the times but he had stories that covered like 20 years of playing baseball and I also cut the grass for Hub Kittle as well and he was still in the game after like 40 years but never showed up at all. So I created this just so I could play their careers out. It just sorta grew after that. Last edited by Spritze; 02-27-2010 at 08:14 AM.

01-11-2010, 01:14 PM	#42
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	I don't Use Neutralized stats nor career fielding when I use the Spritze db. Because The extra player years are already neutralized when using the standard db as are the fielding ratings. I do plan on creating a neutered version of the db in the next go round.

02-26-2010, 01:46 AM	#45
suzerain Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 94	This really looks great. I tend to run fictional leagues, but with randomized historical players using a utility I wrote to randomize the Lahman database, and the problem with only importing major leaguers was that the minor leagues were mostly empty, or filled with guys who ought to be in the Majors. I was wondering a couple of things: do you have any plans to go beyond 1974 or interest in merging this with the Korean league dataset that someone else has posted?

02-26-2010, 03:30 PM	#46
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	I will be adding 1,974 Korean players to the world once I fix up that Korean dataset. It has too much missing to work as is but I have an expert system I coded that should fix that up. It is the same one used for the neutralised stats that come with the game.

02-27-2010, 04:56 AM	#47
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	Spritze, I tried to reach you by sending an email to PadresFan. He replied that he wasn't Spritze, and said he didn't know your email. So I will just post the email I mistakengly sent here: I am currently enjoying your minor league unadulterated minor league stats tables. I was wondering if you still had the raw numbers that you used (no estimates). For most seasons you had to estimate IBB, SF, CS, HRA, etc... and less often it looks like you had to estimate batter BB and SO, RBI, BFP. However, some statistics are so well estimated that it is impossible to know whether or not it is an estimate, especially since I don't know exactly which stats were tracked by each league during a given season. This might interest you. I've spent the last two months working on a souped up version of the Baseball Databank database. So far, I've filled in many statistical gaps (like missing HBP, WP, SH/SF Allowed, BFP data), corrected numerous statistical errors, and added non-traditional statistics like RBOE (reached on error), Pickoffs, 2B and 3B allowed. I'll send you a copy when I'm finished (hopefully in the next month or so). You might also enjoy my pro basketball database that I finally released a few months ago (it took me 3 years to piece it together). The database contains complete statistics for the NBA/BAA (1946-2009), NBL (1938-1949), ABA (1968-1976), ABL (1962, 1963), PBLA (1948), and NPBL (1951). Not forgetting the ladies, it also has complete statistics for the WNBA (1997-2009), and ABL (1997-1999). It also contains statistics for the Italian League (1986-2008), CBA (1991-2009), NBA D-League (2002-2009), USBL (1996-2007), IBL (2000, 2001), IBA (2000, 2001). You can download my database here: http://www.mediafire.com/?tzutmuktdtm Again, let me know if you still have your minor leage data, without the estimates, somewhere on your computer. Thanks, Dave

02-27-2010, 11:49 AM	#49
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	Spritze, your database tool thingy would be a wonderful addition to the game. I wonder if you and Markus would consider including it as an optional source within the structure of OOTP itself? Sure would add richness to the gaming experience in my humble opinion.

02-27-2010, 04:33 PM	#50
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	Spritze, you said: “Since you know what data is available for what year you could create a program to delete the estimated data.” Well, this may be true for major league baseball. We have a pretty good idea of what statistics were tracked both officially and unofficially for each season. But this would be a nightmare to try and figure out for the minor leagues. Most minor leagues have kept the same stats as MLB since the around the 50’s. There may be some exceptions, like some leagues not tracking IBB, and CS, GIDP for certain seasons. You can pretty much assume that all IBB and GIDP data prior to the 1950’s is estimated. The same goes with most CS data. As far as batter BB, batter SO, and RBI go, well you would need a complete set of TSN/Spalding/Reach Baseball guides to figure out what was tracked for each league and each season. Even if a stat wasn’t tracked officially, it may still be based on actual data (like RBI), thanks to the extensive research members of SABR have done on minor league data. And I don’t even want to think about trying to figure this out for pitchers and fielders. Spritze, I noticed a problem with your custom databases that you might want to fix. regarding your custom databases (this applies to versions 10.4 of your database and the older version you posted back in June). No players are affiliated with Montreal Expos from 1969-2004. But, you do have a few players affiliated with the Nationals since 2005. Also, there are no St. Louis Cardinals for players who debuted around 1997/1998 or later. Players who have played their entire career for the Cardinals since then (Pujols, Schumaker, Wainwright, etc…) are listed as free agents. One more request (I don’t want to sound greedy) do you have any plans on releasing a version of your database using neutralized MLB statistics. As it stands, your database does not work properly if you choose to base ratings on neutralized stats. Players not listed in the neutralized table import with terrible ratings. I know I keep shifting topics here. In my last post, I mentioned I was working on a souped up version of the Baseball Databank/Lahman Database. Good news, I am starting to make real progress. It should be finished in about a week or so. I’ll leave you with a teaser, my teams table. Most of the column headings should be recognizable. I recommend you download this table as a CSV, or Excel file, and then resize the columns. Here’s the link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AvzWnFsJW1lhdFFGd0JnMXFENjFxTnhxZzlGUEZHd Gc&hl=en

02-28-2010, 12:31 AM	#52
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	It sounds like you have the ultimate baseball library. I have thought about obtaining some of the old Spalding/Reach guides that aren't posted online. That is until I found out how expensive they sell for. Even the reprints are costly. There are about 20-25 Spalding Guides from 1889-1939 posted on the internet. All of the Reach Guides from 1902-1911 are available on the internet as well, along with the TSN guides from 1943-1950. The funny thing about the Spalding guides is that some years they published complete minor league stats in their guides and some years they published no minor league stats in their guides. There really isn't any pattern to it. It looks like they started publishing full minor league stats every year (no gaps) sometime in the 1920's. I have one more question about your custom databse. When you determine a player's primary team for his career, are you using the franchiseID instead of the teamID.

02-28-2010, 08:39 AM	#53
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Team ID, they were goofy due to Lahman changing them willy-nilly. So Koufax will start on the Brooklyn Dodgers. Ruth on the Yankees. That was how it were supposed to be, he just caught me napping as he changed them team ID's.

03-01-2010, 12:06 AM	#55
crisscee Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7	Spritze; Thanks for the suggestion. Thought I had made that adjustment to Itois77 based on your earlier postings, but I'll try again. I also figured, since I was trying to import the record of a single player for 1965 through the Free Agent screen, the issue with the Ito record wouldn't affect the record I wanted.

03-02-2010, 12:39 AM	#56
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	Thanks for the neutralized DB Spritze. You also fixed the issue where there were no Expos players and no late 90's-2000's Cardinals. Thanks again!

03-02-2010, 01:34 AM	#57
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	There are still some issues with team affiliations. Not a big deal, I can probably fix them myself. I started a league in 1920, and noticed several Brooklyn Dodgers in the free-agent pool. I took a look at the database tables, and the Dodgers appearing as free agents had LAD (the franchise ID) under teamID and AA under lgID. I can understand the team-franchise mixup, but I don't understand the league mixups. I'll have to look deeper into this problem tomorrow.

03-02-2010, 01:39 AM	#58
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	I believe I found the problem related to the league ID's. All current major league teams who began in the American Association (Cardinals, Pirates, Reds, and Dodgers) have AA listed under lgID in most seasons.

03-02-2010, 10:13 AM	#59
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Well, how do you like them apples? I'll fix this today.

03-02-2010, 01:40 PM	#60
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	Rather than try to fix the teamID's, you'd probably be better off to start assigning them from scratch. I've found a lot of inconsistencies, especially in the 19th century, that I can't resolve using your modified teams table. For instance, Henry Porter has teamID of MIL (Milwaukee). He played in 11 games for the Milwaukee Union Association Club in 1884, 142 games for Brooklyn, and 59 games for the Kansas City Cowboys.