Should I release a player that is 3 K's from the all-time record

[reds1]

Looking at this from a real life perspective, I can't see the club releasing a future hall-of-famer who is so close to breaking a significant record. It would be a little awkward when the time came to retire his number and holding celebrations for such. Bad feelings could still linger.

Breaking such a record gives the team bragging rights as well. He did this while he was playing with us.

Personally, it doesn't matter whether a player sprints across the finish line to break a record or crawls. He broke it, its his. And as a GM on a team with nothing on the line, I wouldn't stand in his way. Records were made to be broken. And they're meant to be celebrated, not picked away at. At least not by the team he plays for, which is the perspective I would look at this.

[ihatenames]

I would throw him in mop up situations for the year. He should be able to get his 2 strikeouts and not hurt your team too horribly.

[mindflux]

He's bound to get 1 k in his next start. This shouldn't be a question this near the end... if he were 60 or 80 or 100k's away and a guy from the minors or bullpen was much better than him, then yeah it's a consideration. Real teams would send him out there and market the hell out of seeing him breaking whomever's record. Stats are one of the most fun parts of the game.

Also, the player hadn't retired yet, so he evidently wanted to pitch unless the player unretired him.

Let him pitch.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by reds1

Looking at this from a real life perspective, I can't see the club releasing a future hall-of-famer who is so close to breaking a significant record. It would be a little awkward when the time came to retire his number and holding celebrations for such. Bad feelings could still linger.

Breaking such a record gives the team bragging rights as well. He did this while he was playing with us.

Personally, it doesn't matter whether a player sprints across the finish line to break a record or crawls. He broke it, its his. And as a GM on a team with nothing on the line, I wouldn't stand in his way. Records were made to be broken. And they're meant to be celebrated, not picked away at. At least not by the team he plays for, which is the perspective I would look at this.

Well said, Mr. Awesome-sauce.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by '94 EXPOS

Some perspective as to where my 'high and mighty' point of view comes from.....I work in a field where statistics are regularly used to determine policy and internal promotion that affects the public....I have encountered numerous examples where the manipulation of numbers is used for personal or political gain at the expense of dealing with the real issue at hand....this pisses me off....I will take integrity over ego every time....


You bring up Steve Carlton.....was he chasing a specific record?....if not it does not bear weight on this debate....if Carlton was pitching for love of the game or because he couldn't let go (likely a bit of both I imagine) that is substantially different then going to the hill every fifth day with nothing in the tank in an effort to put your name in a book.


As a counter point I will give you two examples of athletes that retired with class.....Derek Jeter stayed just the right amount of time...could he have used his name and skill set to hang on for another couple of years as a DH/1B occasional SS? Sure, but he knew his time as a premier player was over and it was time to call it a day.....Second, Barry Sanders. Out of loyalty and wise personal insight he walked away from a dysfunctional organization at the top of his game instead of continuing to plug away with the Lions and/or forcing a trade. That was his choice and I applaud him for it. Records? When you talk about the greatest RBs of all time, Sanders name always comes up (often on top), despite his lack of all time records.


The pitcher in our example here was undeniably a great player. His time had come. The only thing attaining the strikeout record would do is cause his legacy to be (in small part) to be questioned. Attaining the record would not affect his HOF chances or provide any other substantial benefit except to be remembered as 'that guy'.....it is our sports culture's infatuation with specific numbers that has caused the most grief in baseball.....I don't want to remember Sammy Sosa at all....I would like to remember Barry Bonds as a great 5 tool player, yet all I see is a roided up egomaniac....Mark McGwire's post record feelings and comments are very revealing and have allowed me to gain respect back for him.


FINALLY, in relation to OOTP in this example.....if there is human 'interference' involved in Mr Kim's record does this change your opinion of the matter? I note that Kim was out of baseball in 2021 after his horrible 2020 season. Was he manually signed by 'jpeters' who admittedly force started him (and presumably retired him) just to get the record? From my perspective this does not work for me...it is the same as going in to the editor and just adding a bunch of K's to his total.


But....to quote many wise old posters on this site "it is your game play it your way" and I wish Mr Kim nothing but the best in his retirement.

You do make some excellent points. To answer your question, Won-Il actually injured himself in spring training before the '21 season. He ruptured his UCL and was out 14 months. Surprisingly, he didn't retire. Perhaps even more surprisingly, Cleveland signed him in Feb of '22 to a 1 year, $1.7mil contract. Normally the AI doesn't sign injured players. He made 4 starts in 17 appearances for their AAA team.

This is where I came in as the baseball god. Cleveland's 5th starter went "down" and needed replaced. Sure Cleveland had better options, but since they were out of contention, they decided to introduce their fans to a KBL legend. He was only 8 K's away from the record, after all. But what started as a "lets give this guy a few starts to put Cleveland in the record books" turned into a "this guy has started 6 games and only struck out 6 batters"!

I did create the opportunity for him because, i didnt want an all-time great to die out in AAA. I have only un-retired one guy in my league, Howard 'Iggy' Bond. Destined to be an all-time great, his career was tragically cut short by a torn labrum at 28 years old. After coaching in some indy league 13 years later, his players convinced him to try out for the team. He killed it for a couple seasons with his uncanny ability to hit the ball where he wants it to go. Realizing he's still got it, he makes some calls and then the 43 year old signed on with Clarion of the KBL. He played in every game, but 3, the next season in the bigs. He retired again to resume his true passion, coaching and mentoring.

['94 EXPOS]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

You do make some excellent points. To answer your question, Won-Il actually injured himself in spring training before the '21 season. He ruptured his UCL and was out 14 months. Surprisingly, he didn't retire. Perhaps even more surprisingly, Cleveland signed him in Feb of '22 to a 1 year, $1.7mil contract. Normally the AI doesn't sign injured players. He made 4 starts in 17 appearances for their AAA team.

This is where I came in as the baseball god. Cleveland's 5th starter went "down" and needed replaced. Sure Cleveland had better options, but since they were out of contention, they decided to introduce their fans to a KBL legend. He was only 8 K's away from the record, after all. But what started as a "lets give this guy a few starts to put Cleveland in the record books" turned into a "this guy has started 6 games and only struck out 6 batters"!

I did create the opportunity for him because, i didnt want an all-time great to die out in AAA. I have only un-retired one guy in my league, Howard 'Iggy' Bond. Destined to be an all-time great, his career was tragically cut short by a torn labrum at 28 years old. After coaching in some indy league 13 years later, his players convinced him to try out for the team. He killed it for a couple seasons with his uncanny ability to hit the ball where he wants it to go. Realizing he's still got it, he makes some calls and then the 43 year old signed on with Clarion of the KBL. He played in every game, but 3, the next season in the bigs. He retired again to resume his true passion, coaching and mentoring.

Awesome! You won me over. I was going to compose an OOTP news story that derided Kim's efforts but after reading your last post I don't have it in me to keep the argument alive. Your explanation (especially not wanting him to die in AAA) and storyline is just too genuine and heart warming.


I raise a glass to Kaptain Kim and his voluminous number of Ks!!!!!!!!

[discodude5]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

He was only 8 K's away from the record, after all. But what started as a "lets give this guy a few starts to put Cleveland in the record books" turned into a "this guy has started 6 games and only struck out 6 batters"!

That's awesome.
If he has 2 starts and gets the record really nothing too crazy about the situation but just that it took so much effort makes it feel a bit forced.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by discodude5

That's awesome.
If he has 2 starts and gets the record really nothing too crazy about the situation but just that it took so much effort makes it feel a bit forced.

I agree, which is why I brought this up in the first place. If I had known that it would take 7 awful starts for him to get 8 K's, I probably would have told him that he just doesn't have anything left and if he didn't retire, we'd release him. But since we already committed and brought him up, it made for an awkward situation after the 4th or 5th start. It's like a lose lose. If you release him, then you have to deal with angry fans that wanted him to break the record. If you let him slug it out, then you deal with angry fans that say he should retire.

So looking back, would it have been better to not get the chance and retire or to get the chance only to fall so short?

[faithful2thecall]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

You do make some excellent points. To answer your question, Won-Il actually injured himself in spring training before the '21 season. He ruptured his UCL and was out 14 months. Surprisingly, he didn't retire. Perhaps even more surprisingly, Cleveland signed him in Feb of '22 to a 1 year, $1.7mil contract. Normally the AI doesn't sign injured players. He made 4 starts in 17 appearances for their AAA team.

This is where I came in as the baseball god. Cleveland's 5th starter went "down" and needed replaced. Sure Cleveland had better options, but since they were out of contention, they decided to introduce their fans to a KBL legend. He was only 8 K's away from the record, after all. But what started as a "lets give this guy a few starts to put Cleveland in the record books" turned into a "this guy has started 6 games and only struck out 6 batters"!

I did create the opportunity for him because, i didnt want an all-time great to die out in AAA. I have only un-retired one guy in my league, Howard 'Iggy' Bond. Destined to be an all-time great, his career was tragically cut short by a torn labrum at 28 years old. After coaching in some indy league 13 years later, his players convinced him to try out for the team. He killed it for a couple seasons with his uncanny ability to hit the ball where he wants it to go. Realizing he's still got it, he makes some calls and then the 43 year old signed on with Clarion of the KBL. He played in every game, but 3, the next season in the bigs. He retired again to resume his true passion, coaching and mentoring.

Probably figured it would be bad to tempt fate the following season after recording 666 AB's in his last season.

[monkeystyxx]

Unrelated to the main topic but I've been dying to know for a while and didn't want to create a whole new thread, so am seizing my opportunity!

What do the red numbers mean in a player's stats history? Is it, as I'm beginning to suspect, denoting that he lead the league that year in the category?

[battists]

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

Unrelated to the main topic but I've been dying to know for a while and didn't want to create a whole new thread, so am seizing my opportunity!

What do the red numbers mean in a player's stats history? Is it, as I'm beginning to suspect, denoting that he lead the league that year in the category?

Yep

[Assos]

I am a softy, I would have done the same thing and kept him around as long as I could. I love watching old timers finish out their careers in style in the NABL, I mean bigs.

[Hoiles]

As silly as it may seem, baseball is the one sport where in real life individual accomplishments often take priority over winning. For example, the highlight of Aaron's or Maris's record breaking HR seasons were the records themselves and not the World Series. Nothing wrong in you feeling selfish for your game's star player.

[fuzzy_patters]

What was the end of the career like for the guy who previously held the record? Knowing OOTP, I wouldn't be shocked if he had been playing out a contract at the end of his career. Heck, that's how it would play out in real life, too. I think it's awesome that your guy broke the record.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by fuzzy_patters

What was the end of the career like for the guy who previously held the record? Knowing OOTP, I wouldn't be shocked if he had been playing out a contract at the end of his career. Heck, that's how it would play out in real life, too. I think it's awesome that your guy broke the record.

Bintang was the guy(for some weird reason all the great pitchers had very strange names). He was truly one of the best, until injuries took their toll on him. He could have easily had 1000 more K's had he remained healthy. Once the injuries robbed him of his velocity and control, he was done.

[conception]

I kept a pitcher going for a while after he was past his prime because he became the only pitcher in my league to reach 300 wins, an astoundingly difficult feat. What was amazing is that he was regularly my #3 for the first ten years of his career, and after one down year he took off in his 30's and became a dominant pitcher. By the time he retired he wasn't the same player as he was, and I wouldn't have kept him around at his performance and salary rate if not for the wins, but does that really undermine his accomplishments?