Absolute Blockbuster of a Trade in my 42 year old Historical Random Debut

[Jeff1787]

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

I import them individually. Those that never made the big leagues won't appear in your draft class. Like Josh Gibson, Oscar Charleston, Biz Mackey, etc.

I think I am wrong, you can manually import guys like Gibson from the in-game database. He is in the Minor League DB. Only thing it appears his neutralized stats are missing!

Same for Oscar Charleston.

So, I guess you can't use them if you play with neutralized stats, you have to use Spritze's. I'm baffled at this point.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

I think I am wrong, you can manually import guys like Gibson from the in-game database. He is in the Minor League DB. Only thing it appears his neutralized stats are missing!

Same for Oscar Charleston.

So, I guess you can't use them if you play with neutralized stats, you have to use Spritze's. I'm baffled at this point.

Correct. Neutralized Stats - Must use Spritze DB. Real Stats - Can use MiLB database or Spritze DB.

[Jeff1787]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Correct. Neutralized Stats - Must use Spritze DB. Real Stats - Can use MiLB database or Spritze DB.

Then that brings me to the next logical question, I think...How would Negro League players with limited real life stats fare in a Historical League using Real Stats and not Neutralized Stats?

[italyprof]

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

Then that brings me to the next logical question, I think...How would Negro League players with limited real life stats fare in a Historical League using Real Stats and not Neutralized Stats?

I had a team where Josh Gibson led the league in home runs a while back if I remember. But it does vary. Sometimes the Negro League and also the better minor league like the PCL players really disappoint, but some do very well.

Still waiting for one where Satchel Paige is dominant. Sometimes he is quite good, but not at the level we expect.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

Then that brings me to the next logical question, I think...How would Negro League players with limited real life stats fare in a Historical League using Real Stats and not Neutralized Stats?

Spritze worked hard on those, and if you check the Real Batting Stats tab you will see that it's the same as the Neutralized Batting Stats tab (at least for the Spritze HS for OOTP16 DB version of Oscar Charleston). Not sure how he did it given the dearth of info and record keeping, but somehow he did. I think he used a variety of sources and some fudging to get it done, but you'd have to ask him.

I've had Charleston, Louis Santop, Dick Redding, Bill Foster, Bullet Rogan along with non-big name Negro Leaguers in my league, and the big names have done really well. Charleston (while not on par with the 2 CF in my HoF - Mickey Mantle and Reggie Smith [who are absolutely inner circle HoFers in my game]) has had a career that's good enough for the HoF in my eyes. He's been a 6-time All-Star, 3-time Silver Slugger, and had 1 MVP Award in his career so far. The big name guys that you'd expect to do well should be among your league leaders at some point in their careers. Like I said, Spritze did a great job with admittedly limited resources.

[Jeff1787]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Spritze worked hard on those, and if you check the Real Batting Stats tab you will see that it's the same as the Neutralized Batting Stats tab (at least for the Spritze HS for OOTP16 DB version of Oscar Charleston). Not sure how he did it given the dearth of info and record keeping, but somehow he did. I think he used a variety of sources and some fudging to get it done, but you'd have to ask him.

I've had Charleston, Louis Santop, Dick Redding, Bill Foster, Bullet Rogan along with non-big name Negro Leaguers in my league, and the big names have done really well. Charleston (while not on par with the 2 CF in my HoF - Mickey Mantle and Reggie Smith [who are absolutely inner circle HoFers in my game]) has had a career that's good enough for the HoF in my eyes. He's been a 6-time All-Star, 3-time Silver Slugger, and had 1 MVP Award in his career so far. The big name guys that you'd expect to do well should be among your league leaders at some point in their careers. Like I said, Spritze did a great job with admittedly limited resources.

So it sounds like Real Stats work just fine, then what be the reason for using Neutralized Stats?

Note: Josh Gibson's Real Batting Stats tab are different than his Neutralized Batting Stats tab...haven't checked any others yet.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

So it sounds like Real Stats work just fine, then what be the reason for using Neutralized Stats?

Note: Josh Gibson's Real Batting Stats tab are different than his Neutralized Batting Stats tab...haven't checked any others yet.

Real Stats have gaps. Neutered Stats are supposed to fill in all gaps. That's the selling point of Neutered Stats. I'm probably about to switch to Real Stats for my games after years of Neutered Stats because I can see the writing on the wall for the end of Neutered Stats. There are no Neutered Stats for the MiLB database. I think we can do the math.

That's interesting about Josh Gibson's batting stats. I'm using Spritze HS for OOTP16 DB though, so maybe things changed in the interim.

[David Watts]

Wouldn't Negro League players perform much like current big league players without a lot of actual stats to go by? I'm playing 16 and Puig was a stud. Kluber was a stud. I've had Trout in the past and he was a monster?

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Wouldn't Negro League players perform much like current big league players without a lot of actual stats to go by? I'm playing 16 and Puig was a stud. Kluber was a stud. I've had Trout in the past and he was a monster?

I don't know about the others, but Charleston has 27 years worth of stats to go by (1915-1941) in his stats tabs, so he does not "suffer" from the inexperienced big leaguer turned stud syndrome.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I don't know about the others, but Charleston has 27 years worth of stats to go by (1915-1941) in his stats tabs, so he does not "suffer" from the inexperienced big leaguer turned stud syndrome.

I guess I misunderstood Jeff's question. My bad. I thought it had to do with a lack of real playing stats to recalc.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I guess I misunderstood Jeff's question. My bad. I thought it had to do with a lack of real playing stats to recalc.

The reality of Negro League player stats is that the record keeping was incomplete. Somehow Spritze sifted through many different sources and came up with (or possibly fudged a bit) enough stats to create more well rounded Negro Leaguers than you might expect.

[David Watts]

Just curious, do y'all prefer dynasties or are more in favor a NFL parity type situation? Me, I love a super team. Love watching a team go on an extended run of success.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Just curious, do y'all prefer dynasties or are more in favor a NFL parity type situation? Me, I love a super team. Love watching a team go on an extended run of success.

Right now we've kind of got a Premier League situation in MLB if you think about it. The Yankees, Red Sox, Indians, Astros, Nationals, Cubs, and Dodgers seem to be the premier teams, and it looks like everybody else is fighting over the scraps. But that's why they play the games.

As for my preference, I probably like somewhere between the two extremes. I got real sick of the core-four (+Bernie) Yankees being there all the time, but if you ask died in the wool Yankee fans I'm sure they didn't mind that sustained run of success. Then again, the NFL has the Patriots so the parity might just be a figment of our imagination. I like to know my team has a chance every year, but even if they don't I'll still watch the games because I'm a die-hard (or a masochist - I can't decide ).

[JaBurns]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Sorry. What I meant was tying strategy settings to somewhere from the eighties forward so you make the relievers useful players, and keeping your stats output tied to 1958. Relievers will be pretty much useless if you use 1958 strategy settings as they were barely used at that time in history.

Trying to setup as above stats ‘58, strategy ‘84. Making a few mistakes along the way but it looks promising once I check and recheck the data settings. You are right about strategy changing financials when I enter ‘84 for strategy it immediately changes contracts. I found there is a one step reset on the general page to assign fictional contracts that brings everything back into line.

[Jeff1787]

It seems to me that one should use neutralized stats for a Historical League that includes many players that have a lack of real life statistics...like a bunch of Negro League players!

Accurate records are lacking so I would think that Neutralized stats fills that void, where Real stats doesn't.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by JaBurns

Trying to setup as above stats ‘58, strategy ‘84. Making a few mistakes along the way but it looks promising once I check and recheck the data settings. You are right about strategy changing financials when I enter ‘84 for strategy it immediately changes contracts. I found there is a one step reset on the general page to assign fictional contracts that brings everything back into line.

I don't know why this happened in OOTP18 (and I would guess OOTP17 as well), but it did. It does not happen at all in OOTP16. They are all separate entities, and changing the year in one place does not affect the year of a totally unrelated setting.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

It seems to me that one should use neutralized stats for a Historical League that includes many players that have a lack of real life statistics...like a bunch of Negro League players!

Accurate records are lacking so I would think that Neutralized stats fills that void, where Real stats doesn't.

The strength of Neutered Stats is twofold. One: it fills in gaps, and two it takes players from all eras and brings them into a 750 runs per team per 162 game environment. Spritze probably has a lot of stats that he pulled from many various sources, and then he may have made some educated guesses to fill in the gaps (even in a Real Stats environment). The big difference between Real Stats and Neutralized Stats is the second part: the 750 run environment.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I don't know why this happened in OOTP18 (and I would guess OOTP17 as well), but it did. It does not happen at all in OOTP16. They are all separate entities, and changing the year in one place does not affect the year of a totally unrelated setting.

Pawns!

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Pawns!

Which have now developed actual pixel legs and can run!

[JaBurns]

Also was able to bring in one free agent, after ****ing around for an hour trying to get paigesa01, 193x to work I tried paigesa01 with no year and viola Satchel Paige is 20 year old free agent. Importing NLers may drive me insane.