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Earlier versions of OOTP: General Discussions General chat about the game... |
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12-09-2012, 09:04 PM | #1 |
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Trading catchers
I don't know if it's just me, but in the actual MLB, how often do you see catchers traded in season, or even at all? There must be a reason for this. What is the reason?, and how can OOTP simulate this? I'm guessing it's because the catcher and pitchers develop cohesion. (much like a QB and receivers in football) If this is true, is this something you would like to see implemented, and perhaps blended with the catcher ability rating?
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12-09-2012, 09:07 PM | #2 |
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Are catchers traded more often in OOTP than IRL?
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12-09-2012, 09:26 PM | #3 | |
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But managers and GM's clearly believe in the ability of catchers to 'manage' a pitching staff, so I don't disagree with modeling this in OOTP. If it makes catchers less likely to be traded in season in real life, then it makes sense to reflect this. But we need to see some analysis of the real life trade data to be sure this is the case. |
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12-09-2012, 10:21 PM | #4 |
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Six catchers were traded in real MLB in 2012. In my latest fictional MLB season one catcher was traded.
I'm not quite clear what OOTP should be doing differently?
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Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit |
12-10-2012, 10:13 AM | #7 | |
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12-10-2012, 10:22 AM | #8 | |
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On the other hand, a young Chad Krueter (who was not picking up a big league check because of his bat) was a pleasure to watch, defensively. Since this specific comparison deals with PBs, we do not see a statistical impact on CERA between Krueter and others. However, imho, Charlie Hough had a better chance of winning any given game, from 1988-1990, with Chad Krueter catching than anyone else on those rosters. While there may not be sufficient sample sizes of data for James et al to make a definitive statement statistically, I am confident in stating Krueter catching Hough offered a lower RA expectancy than Petralli catching Hough. And then came Pudge...... |
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12-10-2012, 11:15 AM | #9 |
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Even replacement-level MLB catchers are a rare commodity. Or at least, they are much rarer than, say, replacement-level outfielders. Teams often do not feel like they have another candidate waiting in the wings if they were to trade a catcher.
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12-10-2012, 11:25 AM | #10 |
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My Cubs traded Soto this year at the deadline.
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12-10-2012, 11:31 AM | #11 |
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I've watched baseball for maybe 20 years now. Since then, the game has changed, and has changed again since.
The point being, in 20 or so years of real life baseball has shown a lot of evolution. My fictional league has been in existence for about 40 years, thus you would expect twice as many changes. Some people have run their leagues for over 100 years. I don't necessarily mind "deviations" such as catchers being traded mid-season more frequently. Things change, things evolve. What is normal? "Normal" is relative to the needs of the league at that moment. If the game doesn't have a lot of decent catchers at the moment, then you may very well see a lot of trading. Even if you use the MLB quickstart, the financials aren't quite a duplicate of the real world, and maybe finances are contributing to this particular evolution. Who is to say that this isn't exactly what would happen in the real world if the league's composition was the same? So I am hesitant about labeling this as a problem without more information. |
12-10-2012, 11:33 AM | #12 |
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Go look for yourself. It takes 5 minute on BR.
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12-10-2012, 12:04 PM | #14 |
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No one is disagreeing. So the purpose of the thread is?......
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Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit |
12-10-2012, 12:23 PM | #16 |
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12-10-2012, 01:01 PM | #17 |
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Instead of making general observations, let's try to find the data that exists.
Looking through BR's list of 2012 transactions, I count eight catchers who spent time in the big leagues in 2012 who were traded between April 1 and Sept. 30. Teams traditionally carry two catchers on the active roster, so that's roughly 60 catchers in the big leagues on most days (not counting expanded September rosters), figure teams average two other catchers on the 40-man (or 60-day DL) throughout the season, so that brings us to approximately 120 big league catchers. So if eight were traded, that's 6.7 percent of the big league catchers were traded at some point last season. Obviously I'm guess-timating on the exact amount of catchers who spent time on a 40-man roster, but I think I'm in the ballpark. Now, rather than debating an observation made on a whim, we can debate whether that 6.7 percent is a high rate, low rate or about what we'd expect. |
12-10-2012, 01:16 PM | #18 | |
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Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit |
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12-10-2012, 01:37 PM | #19 | |
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Anyway, I agree 100%. There are so many factors that go into whether or not a player gets traded that it's basically impossible to determine what a "normal rate" would be. The whole premise of this thread is, well, I won't say it. But my point was to at least throw some hard data out there so that the thread wasn't built around a perception someone came up with off the top of their head. |
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12-10-2012, 01:44 PM | #20 | |
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In response to the post about the Red Sox staff since Varitek retired, I know the post was intended as a joke. But, in all seriousness, how did the same staff perform before he retired when the backup catcher started instead? That's the sort of analysis that James did, and it was amazing to see how the same pitchers performed at the same level or even sometimes better when the backup started ahead of a catcher who was believed to be a seasoned veteran who really handled pitchers well. |
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