devTracker2 Now Available!

[satchel]

May I recommend that the TeamRater include some instructions, specifying that there needs to be a TeamRater directory in the C:\Program Files directory?

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by satchel

May I recommend that the TeamRater include some instructions, specifying that there needs to be a TeamRater directory in the C:\Program Files directory?

Hmm... there shouldn't need to be. That's a bug, I think. Let me look into this.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by Neags23

Hmm... there shouldn't need to be. That's a bug, I think. Let me look into this.

Bug fixed. The program creates that directory for you now if you don't have it. New .exe to download in my signature (1.5.2).

On a side note... that TeamRater code is a mess. I need to re-write a good bit of it if I'm not shelving that project completely and leaving it as is (which may be the case, unless there's an interest in the aforementioned team ratings history).

[ootp3to6]

Originally Posted by Neags23

In XP the program find the leagues for you. What is the full path in Vista of the saved_games directory? I can have it look there too since the paths are different between the two OSes.

I have installed OOTP9 on a separate partition on my hard drive. OOTP9 is not installed in the default folder on my Vista computer.
I noticed in your TeamRater mod that I can use custom directory check box below "Set OOTP Directory", browse to corresponding directory then click done. The next time I use your TeamRater mod, and select "File", "Open new league" the program remembers the last OOTP league that I was using.
This is what I would like to see in your devTracker 2.01 mod if at all possible.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by ootp3to6

I have installed OOTP9 on a separate partition on my hard drive. OOTP9 is not installed in the default folder on my Vista computer.
I noticed in your TeamRater mod that I can use custom directory check box below "Set OOTP Directory", browse to corresponding directory then click done. The next time I use your TeamRater mod, and select "File", "Open new league" the program remembers the last OOTP league that I was using.
This is what I would like to see in your devTracker 2.01 mod if at all possible.

Ah, not the default folder. Yeah, that'll make things difficult.

I can have it 'remember' your path if you click browse. This does require a small file to be placed on your system, though.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Neags23

Ah, not the default folder. Yeah, that'll make things difficult.

I can have it 'remember' your path if you click browse. This does require a small file to be placed on your system, though.

What about My.Settings? That'd make use of a file that was already on the system after the install.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by Tony M

What about My.Settings? That'd make use of a file that was already on the system after the install.

I wasn't familiar with My.Settings. Turns out that's a VB thing, but there may be an equivalent in c#.

I'll look into it. Thanks!

[ootp3to6]

Originally Posted by Neags23

Ah, not the default folder. Yeah, that'll make things difficult.

I can have it 'remember' your path if you click browse. This does require a small file to be placed on your system, though.

If it is not too much trouble, that would be nice.

[ootp3to6]

Please change your reminder for devTracker mod to "Checkout my Player Development Tracker 2.01 with player development graphs".

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by GmOfTheYear

I tried the player development tracker and it says failed to load baseline and then crashes. any help?

You have to export your CSV's before you run the program. If in your import_export folder there is a devTracker2_baselines folder created, delete that. Export your CSV's and restart the tracker.

[endgame]

Neags, thanks for your contributions. Don't let the amount of feedback be indicative of the number of people actually trying out the program. I'm certain the number of reports are extremely understated.

I've had TeamRater since it first came out, and have toyed with various methods using the data to rightly inspire appropriate narratives of the team's potentials at pre-season and an additional assessment after the all-star break evaluating post-season positions. The only drawback is my own ambition and patience to derive the most from its variant possibilities. You do good work.

On PDT 2.0, the hardest part was finally getting .net framework's 53meg download to complete and install without PC or connection objections. That's very unusual for my system, but eventually it prevailed and it's installed, I've run it, but obviously in the middle of a season - as I understand it - I'll have to wait a bit in order to establish a new baseline for comparison. Like TR, I think this has great possibilities as a tool for enhanced immersion on a variety of levels. Finding the one that suits me is the next task.

Again, thanks for your continued interest in providing new tools for the community. But always remember there'll be no parades. If you don't do this kind of thing almost solely because you enjoy doing it, then don't do it. I'm glad you do though and hope you do for some time to come.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by endgame

Neags, thanks for your contributions. Don't let the amount of feedback be indicative of the number of people actually trying out the program. I'm certain the number of reports are extremely understated.
...
Again, thanks for your continued interest in providing new tools for the community. But always remember there'll be no parades. If you don't do this kind of thing almost solely because you enjoy doing it, then don't do it. I'm glad you do though and hope you do for some time to come.

Thanks for the kind words, EG. I do very much enjoy making these. And now that I'm supposed to be a 'professional' developer, it helps me sharpen my skills. I've wanted development graphs (or just generally a better way to track player development) in the game for a long time. I always thought the graphing part would be too challenging, though. Then when I started my new job recently, I worked on a project with Dundas Charts and saw how easy it was to implement them. Of course, actually buying their product would cost somewhere in the high hundreds of dollars. Then Microsoft released their 'own' charting utility for free, which was just Dundas rebranded. Of course, Microsoft screwed up part of it, so I had to resort back to Dundas's trial version. I think it came out nicely, though.

So, in short, I basically make these because it's stuff I'm interested in and wish was already in the game (I've toyed with the idea of making a schedule generator, but the logic behind it is insanely difficult to implement). If others are able to use what I make and increase their own enjoyment of the game, I think that's pretty cool. If not, I'll go right on using them on my own.

I mainly wish for more responses and feedback because that's where some of the best ideas for improvements and features comes from. And it helps track down bugs. I mean, a parade would be nice, but I'll just take a couple of improvement suggestions, instead.

Originally Posted by endgame

I've had TeamRater since it first came out, and have toyed with various methods using the data to rightly inspire appropriate narratives of the team's potentials at pre-season and an additional assessment after the all-star break evaluating post-season positions. The only drawback is my own ambition and patience to derive the most from its variant possibilities. You do good work.

Thanks, again. I've found that the TeamRater can be fun to play with but is dangerous to rely on. I've had several teams that rated pretty highly and often struggled on the field.

Originally Posted by endgame

On PDT 2.0, the hardest part was finally getting .net framework's 53meg download to complete and install without PC or connection objections. That's very unusual for my system, but eventually it prevailed and it's installed, I've run it, but obviously in the middle of a season - as I understand it - I'll have to wait a bit in order to establish a new baseline for comparison. Like TR, I think this has great possibilities as a tool for enhanced immersion on a variety of levels. Finding the one that suits me is the next task.

The .net framework installation, program installation, OS incompatibility, etc. is a big reason I'm attempting to map out how to make these web-based utilities. There are a few huge roadblocks to be able to make that happen, though, that I haven't figured out how to get around.

As far as baselines and comparisons, I've found that you can wait a week or a month or a year and get pretty interesting results. Of course, looking long term, it may be best to get baselines every month or even only a couple of times a season if you've got long-running leagues. Sometimes if you try to get results every week, you start to lose sight of the forest through the trees.

Thanks for the feedback, EG, and any more suggestions, comments or even bug reports are more than welcome.

[ootp3to6]

Originally Posted by endgame

Neags, thanks for your contributions. Don't let the amount of feedback be indicative of the number of people actually trying out the program. I'm certain the number of reports are extremely understated.

I've had TeamRater since it first came out, and have toyed with various methods using the data to rightly inspire appropriate narratives of the team's potentials at pre-season and an additional assessment after the all-star break evaluating post-season positions. The only drawback is my own ambition and patience to derive the most from its variant possibilities. You do good work.

On PDT 2.0, the hardest part was finally getting .net framework's 53meg download to complete and install without PC or connection objections. That's very unusual for my system, but eventually it prevailed and it's installed, I've run it, but obviously in the middle of a season - as I understand it - I'll have to wait a bit in order to establish a new baseline for comparison. Like TR, I think this has great possibilities as a tool for enhanced immersion on a variety of levels. Finding the one that suits me is the next task.

Again, thanks for your continued interest in providing new tools for the community. But always remember there'll be no parades. If you don't do this kind of thing almost solely because you enjoy doing it, then don't do it. I'm glad you do though and hope you do for some time to come.

I will second that. Great work. Thanks for everything you do!

[endgame]

After my roster expansion, finally ran the program for its second time and had the two baselines for comparison. Totally immersed five minutes into the analysis. Great stuff! Before I knew it, Andy Mitchell (my scouting director) and myself were engaging in an occasionally heated debate about the reliability of his assessments. "Hey, I'm looking at the latest info from the Neags Report and Chavez is showing some real progress being able to connect with the ball. Do you honestly think he's hit a plateau over the last three months?"

This is an outstanding tool for an overview from a lot of vantage points, but providing a resource for additional immersion tops the list for me. Will the program preserve multiple baselines, or will I always have a choice of not only the oldest, but other timeframes as well if I want to measure specific intervals of changes?

Again, it's just a first look at what actually results from the data presentation, but I am impressed and surprised at how quickly I was into the game within the game with these records at hand. As a supplement to the Manager's Developmental Report, personalities began to emerge, coaches and scouting personnel were beginning to come to life, and I 'played that game' almost as long as I spent on the OOTP screens themselves.

Exceeded my expectations and looking forward to my recaps prior to the playoffs and as a preview for next season. Any routines or evaluation criterias you've been using would be welcome. The possibilities, as it stands, are exceptional. Thanks, Neags.

[Neags23]

Thanks for the feedback EG. I'm glad it adds another dimension of emersiveness to the game.

As for my criteria and routines, I tend to use it like this: After the point you're at, I'll sim however long I feel is long enough to get a significant number of ratings changes. Then I'll export the csv files, start the program, it detects that there was a new export and asks if I want a new baseline. I say yes, and the main screen loads. I select my team from the list and choose the baseline dates. So, yes, you will always have a choice of other timeframes. If you've got 20 baselines, you can choose which intervals you'd like, whether it's oldest to newest or a random date to a newer date. (In fact, the program will give you results much, much faster if you choose specific dates, rather than "oldest date" and "newest date".)

After the initial setup and I have results, I'll scroll through the results as they are and see the talent changes (they're the highlighted rows). Then I'll sort by biggest changes and check out the graphs for each of those players (it's a bug that makes the highlighted rows disappear after sorting).

It's such a satisfying feeling seeing that graph start to slope upward for a new prospect, and such a deflating and disappointing feeling seeing that beloved aging veteran lose a point or two on his stuff at first, gradually falling apart in huge chunks elsewhere.

It does add quite a bit to the game for me.

You mention the scouting director, and it's been a puzzle for me to figure out how to make this utility useful for those who use scouting without giving away exact ratings. Even if the ratings are skewed in the program by multiplying them by a small random percentage for each player (my first idea), the utility still uses real ratings which could show a player trending up while a scout might say the player is trending downward.

If the scout's ratings were exported as well as the real ones, perhaps those could be used.

Anyhow, I'll be patching the known bugs sometime in the next month or so. Or maybe I'll wait until OOTP 10 comes out so there are more users and more reports of bugs.

Either way, glad you've found enjoyment in the utility, EG!

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Neags23

it detects that there was a new export and asks if I want a new baseline.

So that's simply a matter of the program saying, in essence, do you want to add the latest export as a new baseline date, right?

Originally Posted by Neags23

yes, you will always have a choice of other timeframes. If you've got 20 baselines, you can choose which intervals you'd like, whether it's oldest to newest or a random date to a newer date.

Aside from what the utility does, this is one if its premier abilities. It may also serve, in some future variant, as a means to measure a player's progress or decline in correlation with coaches and their abilities at their league levels. I know, way out there, but maybe Neags DT v7.

Originally Posted by Neags23

I'll sort by biggest changes and check out the graphs for each of those players (it's a bug that makes the highlighted rows disappear after sorting).

Hadn't noticed anything disappearing, but did wonder if you can simply highlight a player's name in a single cell and get a graph option, or do you have to highlight several lines and characteristics? In other words, is the graph option inclusive of all changes (checkboxes) all the time, or only those you highlight?

Originally Posted by Neags23

It's such a satisfying feeling seeing that graph start to slope upward for a new prospect, and such a deflating and disappointing feeling seeing that beloved aging veteran lose a point or two on his stuff at first, gradually falling apart in huge chunks elsewhere.

See your PMs

Originally Posted by Neags23

it's been a puzzle for me to figure out how to make this utility useful for those who use scouting without giving away exact ratings. Even if the ratings are skewed in the program by multiplying them by a small random percentage for each player (my first idea), the utility still uses real ratings which could show a player trending up while a scout might say the player is trending downward.

Good thought, and while I'm not certain it's necessary to even have the feature, it would probably add more, as an option, than detract. I thought along the same lines you did, with the caveat that the randomness would be directly tied to the scouting accuracy selection elected initially by the game owner in his league setup, giving him the option to mirror that error factor, not utilize it at all, or create a new and undisclosed accuracy variable.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by endgame

So that's simply a matter of the program saying, in essence, do you want to add the latest export as a new baseline date, right?

Correct. And what I've taken to doing is getting a new baseline almost every week during a season, then after the season, I'll clean out the baseline file so it's not so cluttered with weekly baselines. It's a bit of manual work, but it allows me to get a high degree of resolution in-season while zooming out a bit for the larger scope over a few different seasons.

Originally Posted by endgame

Aside from what the utility does, this is one if its premier abilities. It may also serve, in some future variant, as a means to measure a player's progress or decline in correlation with coaches and their abilities at their league levels. I know, way out there, but maybe Neags DT v7.

Not a bad idea, but yep... probably a few revisions down the road.

Originally Posted by endgame

Hadn't noticed anything disappearing, but did wonder if you can simply highlight a player's name in a single cell and get a graph option, or do you have to highlight several lines and characteristics? In other words, is the graph option inclusive of all changes (checkboxes) all the time, or only those you highlight?

The talent changes are highlighted in gray initially, but that highlighting disappears after you sort by a certain column. I'll fix that at some point.

The initial graphs are only based on one selection from the grid. The multi-select option is a great idea, though. Off the top of my head, it'll be a bit of work to implement, but sounds like a fun challenge.

The right-click to get a player's graph can be done in any cell. You don't necessarily have to click on a player's name... can be his position, rating, rating change, etc.

[endgame]

Hardly a bug, more just a question for clarification:

I assume that players carry the Team designation of the original baseline, regardless of where they end up, and if I sort the baseline past the date of their release or trade, I'm thinking they won't show up at all. Would that be correct?

For instance, in the pic below I'd sorted from the earliest baseline to the newest, using the actual dates not the text. Even though one player has changed leagues and is now on a different 'team', the league registers, but the team still shows BRI, because he was originally on that 'team' when the baseline was created. The others, showing FA, as well still show BRI, presumably for the same reason.

I think it works well like it is, and is understandable, provided I do understand it. Just checking.

[Neags23]

This is half bug half design decision.

The program gets the player's team in the grid from the drop down list. For instance, if you select All Teams, but a certain player, that player's team will show up as "All Teams".

The reason retired/FA/guys who've changed leagues show up for a particular team is because they played for that team at one point in time between the dates you're looking at.

So it doesn't only look at the original baseline for what team a player belongs to. If a player has played for five different teams in your timespan, he will show up for each of those teams when you select it.

I hope that makes sense.

[endgame]

The more I use this, the more enjoyment it provides. I've started including comments in my GM journal that refer to the Neags Report quite often and base a fair share of my predictions and roster assignments on its input. Great gauge of tendency. Granted, I probably succumb to some confirmation bias, but it is interesting that I find myself monitoring performances looking for indications and evidence of these changes. Nice work, Neags. Nice work.

Having become fairly familiar with my own habits now, put this on my wishlist, if you would. As goes the greys or highlighted areas, I'd like to see an option or added feature that allows you select something on the order of "Highlight Players" and have the greys and whites alternate between players when they're listed by name. This enables me, at a glance (aside from the graph) to view the totality of one player's changes simply by glancing over at all the grey or white groupings, spotting quickly the guy who declined in all his categories, or shortlisting the player who's improved across the board over the last six months, etc...