Bronze market has collapsed

[Kushiel]

If you are obsessed with what other people have monetarily, then you will never be able to find true happiness in the game or in life. It is the way the world operates. I am retired, on a fixed budget, and may be able to spend a couple dollars here and there. If I allow that to weigh heavily on my mind instead of trying to manage what I have with a strategy that can earn me PP's, then I will never truly enjoy the game. Remember, there are only 25 active roster spots. So, over the course of a season like when OOTP 20 arrives and we have all year, we should all be able to build a team that competes somewhere. Then, we have to manage. If my team levels off in "A" ball, then I will see the "Show" in my minds eye when we play. What will be the difference if we do not dwell on the level we are in.

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

OPW, what's the obsession with having people lose cards? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just really wonder where the logic of that comes from. This is a card collecting game mode, where half the fun comes from, you know, collecting. The absolute last thing I would ever want is for the game to take away my hard-earned team for playing poorly. Nevermind the fact that people are going to be paying real money for some of these cards - no one who does that is ever, under any circumstances, going to be interested in a tournament that could destroy their collection.

From a game perspective? Because it's causing this.

If we're strictly talking about collections, that's different. But if people are strictly interested in collecting then why aren't I seeing posts that say, "Check me out! I finally got that 42 rated Minnie Mendoza card that I've been looking for!".

I'm guessing that most grays these days are either getting sold for 5 pp, or forgotten about on a reserve roster (which puts more strain on the server).

People are looking for cards which are going to help their main roster, and the cards which actually help anyone's main roster are becoming significantly fewer very quickly. So quickly that in less than a week, the standard of a card with value vs. a card that goes for no more than the minimum has increased by 10-15 points.

I just can't see how that kind of inflation is going to play out well over the course of a whole year. At the rate my team is improving I'll have a roster of all golds within another week and I'm not even trying that hard, much less spending real money.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

I just can't see how that kind of inflation is going to play out well over the course of a whole year.

There's not actually any real inflation/deflation going on so far though, at least up till now. You're starting from the premise that what people were paying for common and bronze cards the first couple days were their "real" value.

It wasn't. We knew that from the beginning, which is why we valued them for autosale how they are valued, at basically nothing.

But for the first couple days, people were excited to see a card that could improve their team at all and were buying it at any price. Now they're figured out what the real relative value of the cards is and the bronze bubble of the first couple days has burst, never to return.

That's all that's happened. It's not some sort of harbinger of doom where valuable cards lost all value. Those cards were never particularly valuable in the first place and they're just being properly valued now. Even so, you can still sell some bronze cards at well above face value.

Now that's not to say there won't ever be any inflation/deflation. There probably will be (EDIT: especially inflation in the short term since we just activated the possibility to spend real money today) and we'll keep an eye on it, but the bronze card bubble that burst is not a sign of that one way or another.

[Ile]

One way is find other use outside the field for the cards. E.g. collecting an entire team's roster yields PP, a special pack or a special card only available through collecting.

Or even smaller collections, like a set of all bronze or below from a team can be traded in for a standard pack.

There could be events where you can only play with bronze players whose first name is John, or other silly events like that, that encourage players to have a big collection.

But yes, it's pretty obvious how the market will look after a few months** if nothing were to happen. E.g. all cards below diamon will be dirt cheap

Edit: Obviously collection cards then gets locked to your account, or "traded in" for the smaller rewards
Edit2: Months, not weeks. And I'm certain a lot will happen in future versions of the mode, it's just beta after all. I'm positive they will add so much cool stuff over the years that will help lesser cards be relevant in one way or the other!

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

At the rate my team is improving I'll have a roster of all golds within another week and I'm not even trying that hard, much less spending real money.

Well you're doing far better than me then. Two gold on my roster and no shot at another for a few days unless I get some crazy achievement.

Also, I just feel like you don't really get how these game modes usually work. The idea of anything that removes or devalues cards you currently own is so utterly foreign to the card collecting genre that it would require its own dedicated game and ages of playtesting and development to ensure balance. It's not usually about "Yes, the Minnie Mendoza that completes my set!" - It's about "Holy crap, I just pulled a Rookie Ichiro, I can't wait to play with him!" If there's a chance that card gets removed from my collection just because I got runner-up in a tournament, there is no way in heck it is EVER seeing the light of day in my lineup, which completely nullifies the excitement of pulling it in the first place.

EDIT: Also this:

Originally Posted by Ile

I'm positive they will add so much cool stuff over the years that will help lesser cards be relevant in one way or the other!

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I just feel like you don't really get how these game modes usually work.

That's probably true TBH. I've never played this type of mode before and I'm approaching it like I'd approach any other online league.

Though your point about the rookie Ichiro... if you pull it now that would be great. But if you pull it in 2 months when your team is already chock full of excellent players (which it will be if you're even a semi-regular PT player), will you really get that excited? That's the kind of 'inflation' I'm talking about.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

That's probably true TBH. I've never played this type of mode before and I'm approaching it like I'd approach any other online league.

Though your point about the rookie Ichiro... if you pull it now that would be great. But if you pull it in 2 months when your team is already chock full of excellent players (which it will be if you're even a semi-regular PT player), will you really get that excited? That's the kind of 'inflation' I'm talking about.

A fair point, overall. And this is what tournaments and collection prizes can help to mitigate. But honestly I'd probably throw whoever I have in RF in the trash if I actually got that card.

I hope I didn't come off as rude, accusing you of being unfamiliar with the game mode. I just honestly meant it, because losing/degrading cards could, in its own game, be a really interesting concept. It just doesn't fit this kind of a system, and especially not a baseball game. The Rookie Ichiro that I pull today should be equal in value to the Rookie Ichiro I pull two months from now, and if I have someone I'd rather use in RF, then I sell the Ichiro for either more packs or someone that I can use.

Nevermind the fact that most of my Bronze/Silver cards are currently outclassing my one Gold batter, because that's how baseball goes sometimes.

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Ile

Edit2: Months, not weeks.

If it is months, then that would be fine. But I think it will be weeks and that is where I'm not in line with everyone else.

Luckily we have the beta and we can watch the price of golds. Right now the price of gold is climbing because the average player is becoming able to afford them. Golds are selling on average around 23-2400 right now. I'm predicting they'll be at 1500 or less by the end of the beta, and Diamonds will be embarking on the same rise and fall pattern that Bronze, Silvers, and (I believe) Golds will do.

I might be wrong OFC... anyway this is what Betas are for - to find this sort of thing out.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

But for the first couple days, people were excited to see a card that could improve their team at all and were buying it at any price. Now they're figured out what the real relative value of the cards is and the bronze bubble of the first couple days has burst, never to return.

I predict that there will be one more bronze bubble right after the beta wipe. However, it won't be as big or last as long because:

1. people now understand that bronze is only temporary while diamonds last forever
2. PP purchases will be enabled thus some former bronze hunters will be looking for bigger game
3. more people will be participating so the pool of available bronze cards will be larger

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I hope I didn't come off as rude, accusing you of being unfamiliar with the game mode.

No, that's not rude. That accusation was completely true after all. This is just a friendly back and forth about a game feature and no-one is losing their temper here (I hope).

Well, Bronze/Silvers could gain a boost if we could see L/R splits on the card before we bought them too. A lot of them are perfectly good platoon players IMO.

I still have a guy, Difo is his last name, who is rated about 54 but he is a fast switch hitter who plays 3 positions and isn't an awful batter. Danny Heep (63) is my DH vs RHP and he damn near made the all-star team. My whole rotation is made up of high 60's guys except for Kyle Hendricks. So they're not all useless by any means.

I like the way SP's are only very slowly getting cheaper, and what I'd like is for positional players to retain their value like that, too.

[Galeg]

I've still got 2-3 grey cards that are performing quite well for me. And plenty of the Bronze cards. Heck, I've replaced some Silvers with Bronze cards on my team.

[Whoofe]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

From a game perspective? Because it's causing this.

If we're strictly talking about collections, that's different. But if people are strictly interested in collecting then why aren't I seeing posts that say, "Check me out! I finally got that 42 rated Minnie Mendoza card that I've been looking for!".

I'm guessing that most grays these days are either getting sold for 5 pp, or forgotten about on a reserve roster (which puts more strain on the server).

People are looking for cards which are going to help their main roster, and the cards which actually help anyone's main roster are becoming significantly fewer very quickly. So quickly that in less than a week, the standard of a card with value vs. a card that goes for no more than the minimum has increased by 10-15 points.

I just can't see how that kind of inflation is going to play out well over the course of a whole year. At the rate my team is improving I'll have a roster of all golds within another week and I'm not even trying that hard, much less spending real money.

i'll be collecting certain commons, once the game goes live for real. no point in collecting in the beta IMO


so yeah, i'll pay 10PP for a 5PP common if it fits certain criteria. (maybe I want to collect every player on a certain team, for example)

[mikezone13]

I've found the high rated bronze cards (say 68 and 69) are getting decent value at auction as they are similar if not better depending on role to the 70-73 rated cards.

I've sold the following bronzes:
2B Jed McNeil 250 buy it now 68 rated
3B Christian Villanueva 400 but it now 68 rated
LF Kyle Schwarber 250 buy it now 69 rated

McNeil and Schawarber were recent sales, Villanueva was in the 'auction frenzy' of the entry pool.

But no other bronze I've put up for auction has even received a single bid, most with starting bids around 30-40.

[Westheim]

Of course I can't even move my Villanueva for even 125 ...

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Of course I can't even move my Villanueva for even 125 ...

ye be not alone ...

[mikezone13]

Think the bronze market is now GONE.

Takes about a week it seems for the market to stop...

Now of the 17 pages of players in the AH rated 67-69 (high bronze, very easily comparable to silver players or better) there's maybe 1 bid for every 20-30 players.

You can also see low silvers (70-72) being treated the same way, very few bids - about one player out of every 15 or so on the first 3 pages (auctions ending soon).

From a market perspective we end up with more money in the market so that makes the top end more accessible to more people, so only the prices on the top end increase.

We're seeing this in just one week of actual league play. So either so much 'money' (PP) will end up in the overall market that we'll all be paying north of 100,000 for a 93+ rated player or we'll all have 93+ rated players at most positions and will just keep popping packs hoping to pull the odd perfect or 97+ rated guy so we can sell them.

[Kleptonyc]

Maybe add in an upgrade ability ... like 10 bronze cards will get you a card of the next level etc. ... Just an idea and the number of bronze cards needed can be adjusted.

[Westheim]

Yeah, there is no bronze market. Just sell them for 25 PP right away, saves you a lot of hassle.

[mikezone13]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Yeah, there is no bronze market. Just sell them for 25 PP right away, saves you a lot of hassle.

What? You don't want to wait for that 1 in 30 chance that you might get 30 PP (less 10%) for your bronze card and make 2PP profit on the default sale? wow

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by mikezone13

What? You don't want to wait for that 1 in 30 chance that you might get 30 PP (less 10%) for your bronze card and make 2PP profit on the default sale? wow

1-in-30? You are generous.