AI trading - difficult to get right

[GMO123]

It can be difficult to code the AI for trades and player management.

For trades the preference of the GM and coaches have to be taken into consideration.
Whether a team wants a player in a trade various factors have to be taken into consideration.

Is the team offensive-focused, or defensive-focused or does it take a balanced approach? An offensive player would be wanted and worth more to an offensive-oriented team than a defensive-type team.

If a play-maker is offered in a trade, does the team need another play-maker or are they over-loaded with them and therefore doesn't really want the player or would put a low valuation on the player?

Does the GM/owner want to win now or are they rebuilding? A good veteran player would be worth more to a team that wants the Stanley Cup this year but a draft pick would be worth more to a team that's starting to rebuild.

If a player is offered to a team in a trade the team also has to look at the salary cap.

How much the owner is willing to spend has to be taken into consideration.

The situation also affects it. Let's say an offense-oriented team has the best 5 offensive players in the league. It's now offered the 6th best offensive player in a trade.
Compare this to the same team that wants to be offensive-focused but has no top offensive players. It's now offered the 6th best offensive player in the league.
The team in the 2nd example would probably be willing to offer more to get the player than in the 1st example.

There are also other factors that have to be taken into consideration when a team is offered (or wants to offer) a player in a trade such as the quality of the player, scouting reports, the future prediction for this player (is he predicted to be a star or not), age of the player (is the player getting old and therefore will get worse over time), temperament, statistical analysis (points/salary, rating/salary etc.) etc.

It can get complicated.

[mschinner]

Excellent post. Don't forget a player's relationships with the organization and teammates. Look at Lindros. He forced his way out of Quebec and to an extent with the Flyers. Also, look at trades that were made due to a toxic locker room.

[jwr38]

Originally Posted by GMO123

It can be difficult to code the AI for trades and player management.

It can get complicated.

This is all I agree with you. The rest is just the wishes of a human who is able to do human things. Computers are not human so therefore should not be treated as such. Computers are logic thinkers so they need to be programmed as such. Us humans can think up all sorts of weird reasons for a trade, but a good AI has real reasons.


Now let's look into the logic of FHM 2 and it's trade AI. I have given the developers these same files so they are welcome to check (oh check the others too as this is far from one off)

Sorry this is picture heavy as it is easier to show. This means it takes more than one post ... sorry for this as I only have a 5 picture max.

The Trade.



The Player


So who is this guy. From this we can see he was traded for a 5th. So as a 24 year old his value is low. He's not cheap at 2.7 million but not a killer. potential at 4 and was rookie of the year in wjhl (junior). If we look at his character and hockey sense then we see that is ok and he can play center and right wing.

Why was he traded and why did The Boars want him? What computer AI would set this is motion? Boars have no RW? Boars playing badly? Too many RW on his last team? Cap too tight on the last team? Is a 5th really enough for a player like this?

Lets dig deeper

[jwr38]

The Ratings


He's a two way forward. Not good at anything but not crap either. 3rd liner or less in my eyes

Bio


Contract is for 2.7 for 2 more years. no killer but not a great deal for an average player.

Career


ummm now this starts to look different. Last year was his first full year in the pros ... with the team he is on now. But he was let go as a free agent, signed by another team, traded for 2 games and then traded again. Why did the AI do that. Now remember this is not a human, computer go by computer logic. Something must be wrong with how the player is playing right?

Game by game at trades

So on the first team that he just signed he was getting second line minutes, and close to a point a game ( but not in last 6 games ... still very hard in my league). Went to new team that traded for him and didn't get any ice time (remember close to a point per game player and young). Then traded back to his old team.


History


So the first team signed him for 2.7million. With 18 minutes a night he was close to a point a game, playing well, no character problems, young, just signed.... why was he traded in the first place and for a 5th, and why did the computer trade .... this player twice? what is the AI thinking

Lets dig deeper still

[jwr38]

So if the player really isn't the problem; who would trade a new signing, young, doing well player on your second line that is only making 2.7million. There must be something with the team then .............

The Standings


The Boars


Roster (in two parts)



The new team, the best team in the league too, didn't need him as they have many forwards. he hasn't scored with them that much either. They were doing well so why the change in the first place? CAn anyone give a good reason why the Boars picked him up? (computer logic please ... not human dreaming ... well okay human dreaming if it is a good story ).

[jwr38]

Now this team didn't play him ... well for two games but no ice time ... why ... and why did the computer do the trade in the first place?

[jwr38]

Here is the first team. Why did they trade him when he was doing so well? what set the computer to do it ... and for a 5th only?







Now lets look at this logically .... Is this good AI, can you see any logic in any of these trades let alone all the dreams you had that the computer had to think about. Boil it down to basics here .... does this make sense at all?

[jwr38]

double

[Lord PichuPal]

Trading can be a tough thing. I admit in testing before, I had seen one player in fictional get traded twice a few days apart... between the same two teams. I was extremely confused when it happened. But also one thing I found out is the default setting is 50 for trade frequency in fictional, and in the NHL setting (for modern day) it's only 25. Sometimes having the frequency that high means teams go crazy trading, and that can result in sending the same players all over the place for no real reason.

I won't pretend to understand why the AI does what it does for moves, but I'm sure it can't be easy to program it either. It's always going to do strange things no matter what you tell it to do (just look at EA and the NHL series). But maybe it would be good in the future to have it take into account team needs, chemistry, or player happiness. The game's still young, so these things will probably be addressed in time.

[JeffR]

We're continuing to work on the roster management issues. Bear in mind, though, that this is a multilayered problem that isn't going to be fixed by a few simple code changes. The next update will hit a few things that appear to set the AI up to fail, particularly in fictional games; once those are removed we'll continue to work on it from there.

[mschinner]

Also, you have to look at the GM’s attributes. In the fictional leagues, their negotiating attribute are pretty low. It does play a major factor in trades. After I edited that attribute, you saw an improvement in the trade logic.