hits + at bats + BA + OBP = confusion

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by baseball_newbie

Who was that player?

The player that I was referring to is Barry Bonds. It remains to be seen whether his records will stand, given the outcome of current investigation into his alleged use of performance-enhancing drugs. Even if his records are not stricken from the books or adjusted somehow by MLB, they may not stand the test of public opinion over time.

[baseball_newbie]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

The player that I was referring to is Barry Bonds. It remains to be seen whether his records will stand, given the outcome of current investigation into his alleged use of performance-enhancing drugs. Even if his records are not stricken from the books or adjusted somehow by MLB, they may not stand the test of public opinion over time.

ahhh yes, i did hear about that a lot, i have some very strong opinions about drugs in sport and such, is such a shame.

Anyway, i have a few more questions ill bring out ovr the next few days as needed, right now there is one i cant carry on without asking.

Drafts, more importantly the inagrual draft, basically what i want to know is how much players i need in each position, and what should i focus on in the early rounds?

And i now have a baseball team im following, i have a friend in cincinatti, so ive opted to follow them, i catch what i can on tv, and i have to say im really enjoying it. Im hoping to be in america next year hopefully ill be able to catch a live game.

[Dagrims]

Originally Posted by baseball_newbie

Drafts, more importantly the inagrual draft, basically what i want to know is how much players i need in each position, and what should i focus on in the early rounds?

Here is a typical 25-man roster, assuming your league does not have a designated hitter (someone who bats in place of the pitcher). It can be tweaked somewhat depending on your managerial style, team strengths and weaknesses, and personal preferences:

8 - starting C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, RF
1 - backup C
1 - backup 1B/3B
2 - backup 2B/SS
2 - backup OF

5 - starting pitchers
2 - long relievers/occasional starters
3 - shorter relievers/set-up men
1 - closer

As to what you want to get first, that all depends on whether you want a team built on on-base percentage, power, pitching, defense, or some combination of the four. It's never a bad idea to be strong up the middle (that is, catcher, 2B, SS, CF). Again, it's all personal preference. Choose based on the type of team you want to follow, or choose the best player available during each of the first 3-4 rounds, and let that dictate the type of team you're going to be building.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Dagrims

Here is a typical 25-man roster, assuming your league does not have a designated hitter ...:

8 - starting C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, RF
1 - backup C
1 - backup 1B/3B
2 - backup 2B/SS
2 - backup OF

5 - starting pitchers
2 - long relievers/occasional starters
3 - shorter relievers/set-up men
1 - closer

...

11 pitchers, is that really typical for the NL nowadays? I don't follow the NL closely enough to know yes or no and maybe I'm too influenced by the AL, but I thought most teams carried 12 pitchers nowadays and some even 13. I suppose that without the DH, and therefore more need for pinch hitters, the NL might have 1 more batter and 1 less pitcher than your typical AL team though.

That reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask in the Talk Sports forum for some time now. I'll post it later.

Originally Posted by Dagrims

As to what you want to get first, that all depends on whether you want a team built on on-base percentage, power, pitching, defense, or some combination of the four. It's never a bad idea to be strong up the middle (that is, catcher, 2B, SS, CF). Again, it's all personal preference. Choose based on the type of team you want to follow, or choose the best player available during each of the first 3-4 rounds, and let that dictate the type of team you're going to be building.

I agree except for the catcher part. Even if he is more important defensively than a non up-the-middle fielder, the catcher typically doesn't get nearly as many starts as your average starting non-pitcher so I don't think it's wise to spend as much resources on a starting catcher. It's nice to have a good one, but if it is between a good catcher and a good other starting non-pitcher, I'm taking the latter. That said, I'd agree with putting more importance on your catcher in real life, but I'm one of those people who believe the catcher does play an important role in handling staffs.

As for what I draft, I like everything (speed, power, OBP, fielding, pitching, you name it), but more and more I find myself just gravitating to the best player available who still has plenty of his best years ahead him yet isn't so young that you're not sure he'll turn into the player you see him being. That leads me to focusing on, at least early on in the draft, players in their mid to late 20s.

[Dagrims]

Originally Posted by kq76

It's nice to have a good one, but if it is between a good catcher and a good other starting non-pitcher, I'm taking the latter. That said, I'd agree with putting more importance on your catcher in real life, but I'm one of those people who believe the catcher does play an important role in handling staffs.

Yes, I suppose I was thinking as much about real life, because I share the same belief as you about the role of a catcher in handling pitching staffs. That isn't captured in a baseball simulation.

Originally Posted by kq76

Even if he is more important defensively than a non up-the-middle fielder, the catcher typically doesn't get nearly as many starts as your average starting non-pitcher so I don't think it's wise to spend as much resources on a starting catcher. It's nice to have a good one, but if it is between a good catcher and a good other starting non-pitcher, I'm taking the latter.

Two quick responses to this:

1. A catcher with a strong throwing arm is a great asset, and I tend to value it more than the defensive ability of a slick fielding 1B, 3B, LF or RF.

2. Generally I've found that there are fewer strong offensive catchers available in an inaugural draft than for any of the aforementioned positions. I'm a big believer in position scarcity.

I'm glad that there are so many different (and successful) drafting philosophies. It sure would be boring otherwise.

[baseball_newbie]

Thanks this has helped me out a bunch, ive drafted now, sorted my minors out and my roster, and im about to stat spring training with my eye on some trades.

I'm sure ive learnt quite a bit about the draft now ive actually done it and if i come to start a new file ill have a much better idea about it.

[baseball_newbie]

ok, now ive sorted out what i think should have me set up for pitching (although i think i need another left handed pitcher to give me some variation).

But im upto my lineup, and im after some opinions of what i should do, i take it the idea is you have more right handed batters against left handed pitchers, and vice verser.

Do i start out with my contact hitters to get some people on base then bring in my big guys, or do i just go from best to worse?

And although im not in a league with a designated hitter i figure i can ask now what difference i make then?

[Dagrims]

Originally Posted by baseball_newbie

But im upto my lineup, and im after some opinions of what i should do, i take it the idea is you have more right handed batters against left handed pitchers, and vice verser.

Do i start out with my contact hitters to get some people on base then bring in my big guys, or do i just go from best to worse?

And although im not in a league with a designated hitter i figure i can ask now what difference i make then?

1. Generally, most LH batters hit better against RH pitchers, and vice versa.

2. Lineups traditionally have been similar to the following:
Leadoff - good OBP, fast
Second - good OBP or guy that can get the leadoff hitter over
Third - best hitter on the team
Cleanup - most power on the team, good OBP
Fifth - second most power on the team, decent OBP
Sixth - best remaining OBP
Seventh - best remaining OBP
Eighth - worst-hitting non-pitcher

There are a number of studies concluding that it makes almost no difference what order your lineup is in, however. I'm a fairly recent convert to this theory, although most of the time I build the lineup in something close to the traditional manner.

3. Hopefully your DH has good OBP or SLP or both, and you'd insert him somewhere between 3rd and 6th in the lineup, moving everyone else down.

[baseball_newbie]

Ok, with this being my first season, with no stats etc, that rules out using OBP, so i have to go with my ratings, what defines best "hitter", would that be someone who is goood overall? Power is simple enough, and i guess for the first few speed is important as you said, but i suppose all this sort of tuff i will find out as my season goes on?

[baseball_newbie]

actually scratch that ive sorted my batting order and such, my next question is about substitutions. When do i use them? why? and how often?

Do i just use them when people are tired or playing badly? Is it just for relieving pitchers or batters too? How quickly should a pitcher be relieved when playing badly? What is playing badly? When do i need to use pinch hitters?

I know a lot of these question are down to opinion, but im just seeking some sort of guidance

Also how do you tell if someone is tired when playing?

[Kekkonen]

Originally Posted by baseball_newbie

actually scratch that ive sorted my batting order and such, my next question is about substitutions. When do i use them? why? and how often?

Do i just use them when people are tired or playing badly? Is it just for relieving pitchers or batters too? How quickly should a pitcher be relieved when playing badly? What is playing badly? When do i need to use pinch hitters?

I know a lot of these question are down to opinion, but im just seeking some sort of guidance

Also how do you tell if someone is tired when playing?

The frequency of substitutions is a matter of managerial style to a degree; some people are quick to pull a pitcher who is struggling, some want to give him the chance to work himself out of the jam (or alternatively, bury himself neck deep). In choosing which option to take, you'll have to consider several things: How good is the pitcher compared to the guy you'd bring in from the bullpen? How many pitches has he thrown today (if he's your starter and it's over 100, he may be getting tired; if it's over 120, he *is* getting tired)? If there's just one out you need to escape the situation, is the next pitcher/batter match-up more favorable to the guy who's on the mound or the one who's in the bullpen (for example, if the bases are loaded and you have two outs, your lefty starter on the mound in the 7th inning and the next batter is a right-hander who kills left-handed pitching, it makes sense to bring out the righty relief guy).

Use pinch hitters for:
1. the pitcher, if you're not planning on using him in the next inning.
2. your weak hitters late in the game, when you desperately need that hit to tie or win the game (provided, of course, that the pinch hitter is better with the bat).
3. avoiding an unfavorable pitcher/batter match-up late in the game when you need a hit (or even earlier, if it makes sense to keep the pinch hitter in the game). For example, if the opposing team brings in a lefty reliever to deal with your left-handed hitter, you may want to bring in a right-handed pinch hitter.

Other forms of substitution are pinch runners and defensive replacements; use a pinch runner (a substitute for someone already on base) when you desperately need *one* run, and you have a slow runner on base. A really fast runner can score from first on a well-hit single, and will score from second on almost any hit that gets past the infield. This is especially useful in home games which are tied in the bottom of 9th (or 10th, 11th, etc.) inning, because you don't have to worry about fielding positions (if you get the run, that is).

Defensive replacements can be useful if you're protecting a small lead late in the game and you have a batter who's good with the bat but sub-par with the glove. However, to be really useful, the replacement had better be very good defensively and play an important defensive position (middle infield, CF).

As for the 'tired when playing' issue, it's a bit tricky when it comes to pitchers. The game never tells you when the current pitcher is tired -- you just have to develop some sort of a feeling for how long pitchers with different endurance ratings can last. I'm an old CM/FM grognard, so I use a 1-20 scale; I never start anyone whose endurance isn't at least 11. They can go 100 pitches on a good day; 120 is a lot for anyone, but someone with an endurance of 19 or 20 can do that and a batter or two more (again, on a good day). It seems like any reliever can throw 20 pitches if they're fully rested, but if their endurance is 1 or 2, that's about the limit of what I'd ask from them. Any reliever (even one who has starter-level endurance) will take a couple of days to recover from 40 or 50 pitches.

I'm not sure what to make of position player fatigue (except for catchers). Position players who get no days off get tired and will show yellow on the roster, but I really don't know how big a performance hit they take. I just finished the 2008 season and I had Ichiro Suzuki play 162 games and finish with a .350 batting average, so it doesn't look like it will absolutely plummet. There's probably an increased risk of injury to take into account as well, so this is just one of the choices you have to make as a manager. Note that catchers are the exception -- catching is physically a lot more exhausting than playing right field, so catchers with no days off get tired very quickly, and should frequently be given a day off (in other words, your back-up catcher should always have the 'use if starter is tired' option on the depth charts).

[Dagrims]

Originally Posted by baseball_newbie

Ok, with this being my first season, with no stats etc, that rules out using OBP, so i have to go with my ratings, what defines best "hitter", would that be someone who is goood overall?

I know that you said you had your lineup sorted out, but it doesn't hurt to let the computer AI choose the lineup for the first 10-15 games. Then you'll have a bit of a base to start seeing how your players are hitting, and can tweak the lineup to your liking.

[magnet]

On fatigue in the game:

In all of the OOTP versions I've played (I started on 5), fatigue has the most effect in two areas: power and fielding.

So, again IME, someone like an Ichiro Suzuki who is a purely singles hitter won't see much of a drop in offensive production, save for a slight drop in slugging %, but someone like a Albert Pujols won't do nearly as often what you're paying him to; hit the ball out of the yard.

The fatigue effect on defense matters by position, I've found, and it isn't too much different as the normal differences by position. What I mean is a CF who is known for patroling both gaps won't get to nearly as many when he is tired, but a 1B who is tired probably won't see to much of a dip in his glovework.

[olivertheorem]

Just my two cents...

RBI - rather useless tool in player evaluation. It is possible to have an otherwise mediocre, even terrible, offensive season and still get over 100 RBI's. The player just has to be in the right team context and stay healthy to rack up that many. (example - what decent hitter would not have gotten 100+ RBI's on the 2004 Red Sox if hitting in Manny Ramirez's spot?)

catchers - there is no objective, statistical evidence that catchers have any noticable impact on pitcher performance.

Yes, I'm a Baseball Prospectus junkie.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Dagrims

I know that you said you had your lineup sorted out, but it doesn't hurt to let the computer AI choose the lineup for the first 10-15 games. Then you'll have a bit of a base to start seeing how your players are hitting, and can tweak the lineup to your liking.

Here's something else that I found instructive in my own learning curve. On the Lineups/Overview page, the Action button has a selection to "Generate Depth Charts based on these Lineups." What I did when I was confident about setting up my own lineups was to set them up only versus DH, which I use in my league. The other lineups I left blank. Then I allowed the AI to generate the depth charts (have the Lineups/Overview page open to save time). The AI respects my choices for the DH lineups, but it was interesting to see who the AI would choose as backups for my starters, and who the starters would be on the depth chart without DH if it were up to the AI (remembering that not having the DH means more restrictions on who starts). You can learn a thing or two from this, I think. Just don't assume that the AI is necessarily right all the time.

[baseball_newbie]

Ok this has all helped me hugely, especiall ythose comments on my lineup, and fatigue of pitchers and also what effect it has on my outfielder.

Now i have yet more questions;

Firstly a reoccuring one, back to pinch hitters, im not sure how to do this, if i replace my pitcher with a a hitter when i feel i need to pinch hit, then im going to have to bring another pitcher on arent i? and he will then be higher up the order? so its confusing me a bit.

My second question, is what positiions on the outfield are most important defensively, ive heard from a few posts CF is an important one, are there any more, for instance my shortstop seems to be involved a lot.

And finally trading, it's become clear to me maybe i didnt have the best draft, or that trading is vital to getting a good team. Although i'm doing ok in spring training, I feel I could use one or 2 more top players, or greater depth for when fatigue and injuries come in at some point.

So ive found some players im interested in, really top of the range players, what does it take to do to geth old of these sort of quality players? Is it impossible? or can it be done, my settings are to normal for trading so id think it should be possible at some poin. I offered about 4 million to an japenese team for a big hitter, which on the brief summaryo n the trading page they said was ok, then they said no way. So do i offer players as well, beuase i see thats a big part of trading in baseball, and what sort of players do i offer?

Also how much money do i want to say is a maximum to pay for a player, because that also factors into contracts so obviously i want to keep money for that, unless of course the players i offload total up to the new players wages?

[Kekkonen]

Originally Posted by baseball_newbie

Firstly a reoccuring one, back to pinch hitters, im not sure how to do this, if i replace my pitcher with a a hitter when i feel i need to pinch hit, then im going to have to bring another pitcher on arent i? and he will then be higher up the order? so its confusing me a bit.

My second question, is what positiions on the outfield are most important defensively, ive heard from a few posts CF is an important one, are there any more, for instance my shortstop seems to be involved a lot.

First, yeah, you need to bring in another pitcher, unless you want to have a position player pitching (which is a very bad idea). When you bring in a pitcher, you can put him in any slot in your lineup, you don't have to use the #9 spot (but you do need to have all the defensive positions covered). You can even do what's known as a double switch, in which you replace a position player higher up in your lineup with a pitcher, and put in a position player in the pitcher's slot. This is especially useful when you know that your #9 hitter will be up to bat in the next half-inning, but your current pitcher can't finish the inning.

An example: your opposition bats in the top of the 7th inning, and your starter has gotten into trouble. Your left fielder bats 7th in your lineup, and he was the last guy to make an out in the 6th; in the bottom of the 7th, your 8th, 9th (= pitcher) and lead-off hitters will come to bat. You want to bring in your set-up man to get out of this inning and take care of the 8th, but you don't want him to bat in the bottom of the 7th, so here is what you do: you insert the set-up guy into the 7th slot (replacing the guy who just made the last out of the inning), and you take your back-up left fielder and insert him in the #9 slot, and instead of having just 1 batter to go before a pitcher next has to bat, you now have 8.

The most important outfield positions are middle infield (SS and 2B, SS being the more important because he'll probably see more balls batted to him, and also the more demanding because he's got a longer throw to 1st than the 2B) and CF (who has the most outfield real-estate to cover). LF is somewhat more important than RF (more balls get batted that way), and 3B is more important than 1B (at 3B, you'll want a strong throwing arm; at 1B, you'll want a good error rating).

[disposableheros]

Originally Posted by baseball_newbie

So ive found some players im interested in, really top of the range players, what does it take to do to geth old of these sort of quality players? Is it impossible? or can it be done, my settings are to normal for trading so id think it should be possible at some poin. I offered about 4 million to an japenese team for a big hitter, which on the brief summaryo n the trading page they said was ok, then they said no way. So do i offer players as well, beuase i see thats a big part of trading in baseball, and what sort of players do i offer?

baseball is much different than football in this sense. in football you "trade" players by using cash. its called a sale, but it is a trade in a sense. in baseball its player/s for player/s, with cash sometimes used, and really just to balance the deal because of the difference in contracts, difference in player potential, etc.

you rarely find a 'top of the range' player dealt for someone off the scrap heap. often times you see teams that are close to making the playoffs trading good young prospects for a star who will help them win that season. often times its a swap of player/s at a position you have lots of depth at for player/s at a position you dont. you also see lots of trades that involve teams willing to take a slary "dump" in exchange for young potential. "dump" = trading a player with a bad contract and a prospect for a guy with a cheap contract, just to save money.

currently, in OOTP 2006 its just trial and error until you find a deal that works for you and the AI. i usually check out the team im attempting a trade with to see what positions i think they need help at and then see if i have someone who can help them.

[baseball_newbie]

thanks again everyone for the help, after my file corrupting ive had to start over, but i think im better suited this time, ive been doing lots of work in the trading department, im really glad i put the mexican league in there, good players for cheap

[Erich Ingram]

Originally Posted by GCCWolverine

Batting average = hits / at bats - the percentage of times that a batter gets a hit.

On Base Percentage = (hits + walks + HBP) / (at bats + walks + HBP) - the percentage of time a batter successfully gets on base. Since walks and HBP's don't count as official at bats, they are added both to the number of at bats to get the total plate apperances, and also to the number of hits to get the number of times the batter successfully gets on base.

Still a bit confusing, I know, but hopefully this helps.

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this but you also have to factor in Sacrifice Flies but not Sacrifice hits. As with the SF the hitter was attempting to get on and lucked out that his fly ball lead to a run. A Sacrifice Hit the batter is giving himself up so there is not cost to average or obp.