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Old 02-13-2020, 04:08 PM   #1
ukhotstove
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Can winning become boring.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51483378

Last night my favourite sports team Glasgow Celtic Football Club opened a 10 point gap between them and their nearest rivals, Rangers do have a game in hand and they also have to play each other, even if Rangers win both of those games it's still a 4 point margin which the way both teams are playing specially Celtic is a big margin.

Also in Scotland teams play not only for the league title but also the FA Cup and League Cup, Celtic so far have won all of them for the past 3 years and look like they will do it this season.

With none of the big four American sports having multiple trophies nearest I can think what it would be like is say Detroit Tigers winning the next four World Series and their players winning the Cy Young, MVP and Rookie of the Year awards, oh by the way this will be Celtics 9th league title in a row.

Anyway last night as Celtic were winning and Rangers losing so unless a miracle strikes to stop Celtic winning I actually felt boredom, dont get me wrong I dont want them to lose or maybe I did last night just to keep it close but I'm actually starting to feel bored with them winning everything all the time.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:11 PM   #2
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Growing up as a West Ham United fan I don’t feel qualified to comment

Mind you, re: Scottish football, my interest does always suffer because of the top 2 situation (or top 1 atm ).
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:21 PM   #3
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I can say that a lot of winning tends to make fans of those teams insufferable, at least in the States
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:28 PM   #4
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It's kind of true. I'm a longtime Blackhawks fan, and the first Stanley Cup of my lifetime in 2010 was super exciting. The 2013 one was pretty good too. And then the 2015 one was more of a golf clap. Only really made more interesting because I put money on it. Now I don't even watch hockey anymore (although that may have more to do with growing up and having my own family).

I'm also a Tottenham fan, and interest in them has definitely been kept alive with them being pretty close recently but never winning anything of note in my lifetime. And also being a Texas Rangers fan, when they were very close a decade ago. I'd much rather see Texas & Tottenham win something than see another Blackhawks Cup. Something to look forward to as a sports fan.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:42 PM   #5
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I don't think winning all the time makes it boring. Celtic wouldn't be boring if they win at least some of the time in Europe.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:49 AM   #6
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I don't think winning all the time makes it boring. Celtic wouldn't be boring if they win at least some of the time in Europe.
Oh I agree the European games are more exciting, I go watching them about 10 times per season, onetime it was about 6 league games, 1 FA Cup, 1 League Cup and 2 European games. Now I go to less league games but more cup and European games.
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:47 AM   #7
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I think the level of competition is important. I don't imagine Patriots' fans are bored of their level of success given how hard it is to do, with the level of parity in the NFL.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:08 AM   #8
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Celtic is playing against half semi-pro teams basically, the real competition for big soccer clubs is in Europe.

In any major US sport you are going up against pretty equal competition.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgo View Post
Celtic is playing against half semi-pro teams basically, the real competition for big soccer clubs is in Europe.

In any major US sport you are going up against pretty equal competition.

All the SPL teams are professional teams.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:12 AM   #10
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One of my clearest and most cherished memories of growing up in Glasgow was looking out onto that lush green field at Ibrox Park as the men let us boys down towards the front of the stands (no seats). The stench of whisky, tobacco, sweat and smoke was all around me. Winning was less important than being somewhere with Dad or maybe Grandad for some kids in that era.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Celtic is playing against half semi-pro teams basically, the real competition for big soccer clubs is in Europe.

In any major US sport you are going up against pretty equal competition.
You are saying college sports aren't major? College football doesn't offer equal competition, and some teams are always winning. Is it boring for the fans?
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:15 PM   #12
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It can be (although it is also a pretty recent development in that only the same 5 programs have been championship caliber year after year). I have friends who are Alabama fans who turn down sec championship game tickets because if it isn't the national championship it isn't worth going to.

I don't think Clemson fans are getting excited about ACC championships these days.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:40 PM   #13
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It can be (although it is also a pretty recent development in that only the same 5 programs have been championship caliber year after year). I have friends who are Alabama fans who turn down sec championship game tickets because if it isn't the national championship it isn't worth going to.

I don't think Clemson fans are getting excited about ACC championships these days.
"Turn down tickets" for what price is the key. Those tickets are definitely sold at high prices, and free market mechanism means the price will always raise to the degree where just enough people are turned off because of the price.

Also, is TV viewership of those games low? I wouldn't think so.

"Equal competition" doesn't help interest. Casual fans only tune in for dominating teams. American pro sports aren't generating more interest by making teams more even. They are intentionally suppress supply by limiting how many teams are out there, to ensure all existing teams can extract more money out of consumers with the limited supply, and the "equal competition" part is just an excuse to implement salary caps and what not to help the owners control cost. Suppressed cost and supply means guaranteed profit.

There are 130 teams in the Scottish football pyramid. Look at that and you know how American pro sports are set up in ways that favors the very few owners and screw all consumers.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
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"Turn down tickets" for what price is the key. Those tickets are definitely sold at high prices, and free market mechanism means the price will always raise to the degree where just enough people are turned off because of the price.

Also, is TV viewership of those games low? I wouldn't think so.

"Equal competition" doesn't help interest. Casual fans only tune in for dominating teams. American pro sports aren't generating more interest by making teams more even. They are intentionally suppress supply by limiting how many teams are out there, to ensure all existing teams can extract more money out of consumers with the limited supply, and the "equal competition" part is just an excuse to implement salary caps and what not to help the owners control cost. Suppressed cost and supply means guaranteed profit.

There are 130 teams in the Scottish football pyramid. Look at that and you know how American pro sports are set up in ways that favors the very few owners and screw all consumers.
I did read an interesting article about the runaway finances in football (soccer) earlier, which may temper enthusiasm for that model in US sports https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foot...cid=spartandhp
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:11 PM   #15
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IMO can become boring but if you are a big fan then it is an awesome boring!
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I did read an interesting article about the runaway finances in football (soccer) earlier, which may temper enthusiasm for that model in US sports https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foot...cid=spartandhp
By the definition of "broken" in this article, American sports are way way worse.

The article is talking about how it's hard for smaller teams. In the US, smaller teams don't even exist.

In England, there are thousands of soccer teams in various level of league, and they can go up and down the pyramid.

In the US, there are dozens of teams in an enclosed system where nobody else are allowed in without paying a hefty fee when the league happens to feel like it.

In England, people can complain about how it's harder for a team that's 50th rich to win, and harder for the 1000th rich team to go pro.

In US, there is no 50th rich team, let along 1000th rich team.

In England, they can talk about the gap between rich and poor.

In US, only the ultra rich exists.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukhotstove View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51483378

Last night my favourite sports team Glasgow Celtic Football Club opened a 10 point gap between them and their nearest rivals, Rangers do have a game in hand and they also have to play each other, even if Rangers win both of those games it's still a 4 point margin which the way both teams are playing specially Celtic is a big margin.

Also in Scotland teams play not only for the league title but also the FA Cup and League Cup, Celtic so far have won all of them for the past 3 years and look like they will do it this season.

With none of the big four American sports having multiple trophies nearest I can think what it would be like is say Detroit Tigers winning the next four World Series and their players winning the Cy Young, MVP and Rookie of the Year awards, oh by the way this will be Celtics 9th league title in a row.

Anyway last night as Celtic were winning and Rangers losing so unless a miracle strikes to stop Celtic winning I actually felt boredom, dont get me wrong I dont want them to lose or maybe I did last night just to keep it close but I'm actually starting to feel bored with them winning everything all the time.
I enjoy the Premier League, League One (Rochdale) and a lot of lower and non-league teams in the UK, plus 2 Bundesliga (FC St Pauli), but I've never been interested in the Scottish Premiership, because it seems like either Celtic or Rangers dominate so completely. Also, to be honest, the sectarian issues between Celtic and Rangers kind of make me queasy.

But...winning becoming boring? I live in Cleveland, Ohio. That's a sports problem I would like to have. We had that "problem" for a few years when LeBron James played for the Cavaliers. But there was so much drama associated with that, for various reasons--LeBron being such a drama queen, for one thing--some here almost wonder if it was all worth it.

The other day some radio talk show host asked if anybody wants LeBron back. The consensus was "No...thank you for the trophy, LeBron, and best wishes to you on the rest of your career."
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:02 PM   #18
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@skipaway

The US has plenty of lower level leagues though.

I disagree because competition is the first priority for any sport, imo. In the English Premier League - which itself is the richest 20 teams in any given year - the majority of clubs have no hope of even competing for the league, even over multiple seasons, unless they get bought out by a super rich owner.

At least in top level US sports, that is generally not the case, and coming to US sports as a UK fan, it creates exponentially more interest.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t problems with the closed franchise system, not at all (the Red Sox letting Betts go is a good example imo) - but the controlled environment for competition is priceless imo. World soccer has all the same runaway rich owners, with no structures in place to deal with it. Any team that manages to move up through the pyramids to any significant level does it with a large financial injection, for the most part.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:05 PM   #19
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It is nonsensical to suggest that the existence of Dorchester Town has any relevance to a discussion of balance in major professional sport

World soccer is dominated by oil oligarchs taking over teams.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:30 PM   #20
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@skipaway

The US has plenty of lower level leagues though.

I disagree because competition is the first priority for any sport, imo. In the English Premier League - which itself is the richest 20 teams in any given year - the majority of clubs have no hope of even competing for the league, even over multiple seasons, unless they get bought out by a super rich owner.

At least in top level US sports, that is generally not the case, and coming to US sports as a UK fan, it creates exponentially more interest.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t problems with the closed franchise system, not at all (the Red Sox letting Betts go is a good example imo) - but the controlled environment for competition is priceless imo. World soccer has all the same runaway rich owners, with no structures in place to deal with it. Any team that manages to move up through the pyramids to any significant level does it with a large financial injection, for the most part.

The lower level leagues in the US are completely blocked out, unlike the typical pyramid system teams can go up and down.

In England it's definitely NOT the richest clubs always in top 20. That's how the US system works. In England, a club can go up and down a lot even with a consistent fan base.

The US "runaway rich owner" situation is way way worse, since it's all the top league owners are super rich, and they close out any chance for people to join them.

"Financial injection" is a topic that makes the American clubs look even worse. Not only are the club owners already very rich and not in danger of competition, they create systems to limit spending therefore there is no financial risk for them and there is no risk of them not being able to compete. American teams exist for the profit of owners. England teams exist to win, and other than American-owned England teams, most of them are either community projects or owner vanity projects, meaning most of the money go back to the club instead of the pocket of owners.


Rich owners is way less of an issue for sports than owners that focus on enriching themselves through sports.
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