Historical database issues - Page 9

GoCanes · 06-19-2018, 02:59 PM

Just noticed that Tug McGraw imports as throwing righty and batting lefty, but he threw lefty and batted righty.

Spritze · 06-19-2018, 07:56 PM

Previously fixed

Spritze · 06-19-2018, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazin69

In the teams' "History" sections, no credit is given for reaching the post-season before the start of divisional play in 1969. I grant you that the term "playoffs" only cam into vogue with the advent of the League Championship Series, but obvious making the World Series, win or lose, should count as such.

I mean, I'm always glad to see the Yankees eliminated from playoff contention, but when the message I get announcing the demise of the 1991 team's chances says "New York has missed the playoffs in 115 of their 120 year history" (or whatever), it's obviously glaringly wrong.

Also wrong is that "120 year history" thing. Apparently every team has been given a "history" that dates back to 1871, which is incorrect for pretty much everyone except the Cubs and the Braves. In some cases, this has been done by appending the records of similar-but-not-actually-antecedent teams (the Yankees, who were the Baltimore Orioles in 1901-1902, have been gifted the records of the 19th century National League Orioles, who went extinct after 1899) and in others (such as the Red Sox) the tables are simply backfilled from the team's first year of existence, the data copied over and over again. So the "1871 Boston Americans" had that same season for 31 years, until finally they posted a different record in 1902. (At last!)

Obviously wrong. Please fix it (if you haven't already). And thanks in advance.

Noted. I guess you missed the bus on this.

About a year ago options were discussed. These are what made the cut.

If you are looking for a baseball encyclopedia try bb-ref? The historical forum contains options for creating historical exactnicity.

Amazin69 · 06-25-2018, 06:54 AM

Quote:

About a year ago options were discussed. These are what made the cut.

Link to the discussion, please? I mean, it's not as if I don't know my history (otherwise these obviously incorrect messages wouldn't be so annoying, after all), I'm just surprised that apparently a lot of effort went into joining data to teams that it doesn't belong with. It would seem a lot easier to leave 1871-1900 blank than to fill them with teams that don't actually connect to the modern-day teams (Yankees) or recopying the same data, ad infinitum (Red Sox).

By the way, apparently MLB has decided that the 1901-1902 Orioles are not the precursors of the Yankees, after all. So there's no connection at all to the NL Orioles, not even the name.

I guess I can manually add in the "x" to indicate winning the pennant, pre-1969. It'll be a pain, but it's a one-and-done. What do I do, edit the .csv file, or is there an in-game option?

Spritze · 06-25-2018, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Link to the discussion, please? I have no idea where this is as a year has passed.

It would seem a lot easier to leave 1871-1900 blank Just start in 1901 if you prefer.

I guess I can manually add in the "x" to indicate winning the pennant, pre-1969. It'll be a pain, but it's a one-and-done. What do I do, edit the .csv file, or is there an in-game option? I do not know if your edit request is possible. I think not.

Take whatever steps you need to so you can play happy.

Previous to ootp19 the 19th century was 100% fake, with 19 it is only a bit less fake. Best we can do with the limitations that exist in the game.

GoCanes · 06-29-2018, 03:58 PM

Willie Mays imports with the wrong birthdate. The import is may 6 1924 and he was born May 6 1931. I was wondering why he never had a 500 HR career in about 6 historical play throughs with recal on, then I noticed he always retires in the mid 60s.

Spritze · 06-29-2018, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoCanes

Willie Mays imports with the wrong birthdate. The import is may 6 1924 and he was born May 6 1931. I was wondering why he never had a 500 HR career in about 6 historical play throughs with recal on, then I noticed he always retires in the mid 60s.

There are two Willie's in the database. One was a lefty and one everyone knows. I changed the name of the other one to Willie L. Mays.

Spritze · 07-01-2018, 08:13 PM

Hello to the spotters of birthdate errors.

Seamheads has released a new update of Negro League players that I was going to add to the database when I noticed that 160 players have birthdates that differ from the ones in the OOTP database. Some may be players who share a name and some may be corrections to the original data that is 4 or 5 years old now.

Interested parties may download these oddities via the attached spreadsheet and post their fixes back here so they can be implemented.

GoCanes · 07-23-2018, 04:42 AM

Just noticed that Eddie Kasko imports with just his minor league stats up to 1956 and just his major league stats from 1957 on. He is the only player I noticed this with as all other players I checked during this time have both their minor and major league stats. Also noticed that his city of birth is different and his birthdates are wrong when imported from 1957 and after. The DOB is off by one year ('32 instead of '31). City of birth is Elizabeth NJ and not Linden NJ,

Spritze · 07-23-2018, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoCanes

Just noticed that Eddie Kasko imports with just his minor league stats up to 1956 and just his major league stats from 1957 on. He is the only player I noticed this with as all other players I checked during this time have both their minor and major league stats. Also noticed that his city of birth is different and his birthdates are wrong when imported from 1957 and after. The DOB is off by one year ('32 instead of '31). City of birth is Elizabeth NJ and not Linden NJ,

Fixed

cmann33 · 08-08-2018, 08:36 PM

Saul Rogovin appears to have a similar issue as GoCanes posted regarding Eddie Kasko. If I start a league in 1948, when he only played in the minors, he has only minor league stats. Starting a league in 1950, when he only played in the majors, he has only major league stats. Starting a league in 1949, when he played in both, there are two Saul Rogovins, one with only minor stats, and another with only major.

Spritze · 08-08-2018, 08:56 PM

Fixed - he had two different birthdays which makes him 2 different people who share a name and get extra cake.

Ty Cobb · 08-21-2018, 09:10 PM

a hell of a good ballplayer...but what in the actual...

It IS 1969 after all.

Spritze · 08-22-2018, 12:00 AM

Just a small financial glitch in your league.

Ty Cobb · 08-22-2018, 12:14 PM

was the fact that Stargell is making more than the rest of the league combined!

Dukie98 · 08-26-2018, 11:00 PM

Bill Dickey imported as a right-handed hitting, left-handed throwing catcher, rather than the opposite.

Spritze · 08-27-2018, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukie98

Bill Dickey imported as a right-handed hitting, left-handed throwing catcher, rather than the opposite.

fixed

the_mad_monk · 09-02-2018, 01:39 PM

The wrong Josh Bell (belljo01) is assigned to the 2016 & 2017 Pittsburgh Pirates roster. The correct Josh Bell (belljo02) can be imported, though only 2016 stats appear on his profile page. Not sure if this is a Roster Set issue or Database issue. Duplicating in both threads.

Spritze · 09-03-2018, 05:17 PM

Rooster set issue. historically correct.

jdw · 09-09-2018, 08:47 PM

Started a 1974 replay. When he came up in 1976, Eddie Murray was the O's starting CF.

When back an looked at the original save made a couple of days into 1974. His defensive ratings are:

53 - 1B
12 - 3B
49 - CF

He started 3 games at 3B in the majors. The 3B should be removed as it could encourage the AI to play him there in the minors and improve that rating to passable enough to be an MLB starter.

The CF should be removed as he never played CF in the majors, and it's indeterminate if his very limited OF games in the minors were at CF.

* * * * *
Jim Rice in the same 1974 starting point:

46 - LF
48 - CF
53 - RF

Rice wasn't a CF or a LF.

Fred Lynn:

68 - LF
35 - CF

You kind of see the issue here - Rice becomes the Sox CF, and Lynn goes to LF which completely screws up the value for each.

Lynn was usually a pretty decent CF early in his career. If Defensive Ratings are annually adjusted like Batting and Pitching Ratings, his eventual decline in CF could be addressed.

Either way, Rice's CF and RF ratings have to go.

* * * * *

John Lowenstein has:

78 - 2B
55 - 3B
74 - LF
32 - CF
60 - RF

Less than 10% of his starts were at either 2B or 3B. No starts at 2B after 1973.

Predictable issues. He ended up the Yanks starting 2B in 1975-76 with 150+ starts each year. After playing utility for the Cubs in 1977, he's now the starting 2B for the Pads. 1979-1983 is the period where he gets offense together (.287/.378/.487) and becomes a nifty platoon player with Gary Roenicke. In my replay, he's likely going to be an All Star 2B in that era.

* * * * *

There are many others, and I get that it's a thankless job. Things like Lowenstein are going to happen - obscure player, though a favorite of folks like me who grew up in the era (why I started in 1974) and were early Jamesians. But the Murray, Rice, Lynn things are more worrisome as they're extremely famous players that you think would be caught be people given the install base.

Again, I know the historical player database is utterly thankless work. I appreciate all the work people have done on it over the past two decades.

* * * * *
On a side not, as the years go by in a replay, does the game pick up on positional changes?

Will Pete Rose get a 1B rating in 1979?

Will Yount's SS rating get destroyed and a CF pop up in the mid-80s?

Does this quite passable rating for Foster in CF go away after 1978 given he never played in CF after that?

Does the game address Paul Molitor's health issues and move him off 2B? Right now he has a 64 rating at 2B, and an uncomfortable 45 rating at SS. Is the game going to realize after 1980 and the injuries that they need to get Molitor off 2B? Does a 3B rating pop up in 1982?

Same thing with Brian Downing losing the ability to catch?

I ask because I would think that the same feature in the coding that would address those changes would also catch things like Eddie Murry being a CF and zero it out.

06-19-2018, 07:56 PM	#162
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Previously fixed __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

07-23-2018, 04:42 AM	#169
GoCanes Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 58	Just noticed that Eddie Kasko imports with just his minor league stats up to 1956 and just his major league stats from 1957 on. He is the only player I noticed this with as all other players I checked during this time have both their minor and major league stats. Also noticed that his city of birth is different and his birthdates are wrong when imported from 1957 and after. The DOB is off by one year ('32 instead of '31). City of birth is Elizabeth NJ and not Linden NJ, Last edited by GoCanes; 07-23-2018 at 04:49 AM.

08-08-2018, 08:56 PM	#172
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Fixed - he had two different birthdays which makes him 2 different people who share a name and get extra cake. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

08-21-2018, 09:10 PM	#173
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,937 Blog Entries: 65	I know Willie was a hell of a good ballplayer...but what in the actual... It IS 1969 after all. Attached Images __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. Society's tolerance for violent criminals is dumbfounding. "Alinsky works for me now."

08-22-2018, 12:00 AM	#174
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Just a small financial glitch in your league. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-19-2018, 02:59 PM	#161
GoCanes Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 58	Just noticed that Tug McGraw imports as throwing righty and batting lefty, but he threw lefty and batted righty.

06-29-2018, 03:58 PM	#166
GoCanes Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 58	Willie Mays imports with the wrong birthdate. The import is may 6 1924 and he was born May 6 1931. I was wondering why he never had a 500 HR career in about 6 historical play throughs with recal on, then I noticed he always retires in the mid 60s.

08-08-2018, 08:36 PM	#171
cmann33 Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 5	Saul Rogovin appears to have a similar issue as GoCanes posted regarding Eddie Kasko. If I start a league in 1948, when he only played in the minors, he has only minor league stats. Starting a league in 1950, when he only played in the majors, he has only major league stats. Starting a league in 1949, when he played in both, there are two Saul Rogovins, one with only minor stats, and another with only major.

08-22-2018, 12:14 PM	#175
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,937 Blog Entries: 65	My chuckle was the fact that Stargell is making more than the rest of the league combined! __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. Society's tolerance for violent criminals is dumbfounding. "Alinsky works for me now."

08-26-2018, 11:00 PM	#176
Dukie98 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 902	Bill Dickey imported as a right-handed hitting, left-handed throwing catcher, rather than the opposite.

09-02-2018, 01:39 PM	#178
the_mad_monk Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: USA Posts: 460	Josh Evan Bell (belljo02) The wrong Josh Bell (belljo01) is assigned to the 2016 & 2017 Pittsburgh Pirates roster. The correct Josh Bell (belljo02) can be imported, though only 2016 stats appear on his profile page. Not sure if this is a Roster Set issue or Database issue. Duplicating in both threads. Last edited by the_mad_monk; 09-02-2018 at 06:24 PM.

09-03-2018, 05:17 PM	#179
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Rooster set issue. historically correct. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

09-09-2018, 08:47 PM	#180
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,108	Started a 1974 replay. When he came up in 1976, Eddie Murray was the O's starting CF. When back an looked at the original save made a couple of days into 1974. His defensive ratings are: 53 - 1B 12 - 3B 49 - CF He started 3 games at 3B in the majors. The 3B should be removed as it could encourage the AI to play him there in the minors and improve that rating to passable enough to be an MLB starter. The CF should be removed as he never played CF in the majors, and it's indeterminate if his very limited OF games in the minors were at CF. * * * * * Jim Rice in the same 1974 starting point: 46 - LF 48 - CF 53 - RF Rice wasn't a CF or a LF. Fred Lynn: 68 - LF 35 - CF You kind of see the issue here - Rice becomes the Sox CF, and Lynn goes to LF which completely screws up the value for each. Lynn was usually a pretty decent CF early in his career. If Defensive Ratings are annually adjusted like Batting and Pitching Ratings, his eventual decline in CF could be addressed. Either way, Rice's CF and RF ratings have to go. * * * * * John Lowenstein has: 78 - 2B 55 - 3B 74 - LF 32 - CF 60 - RF Less than 10% of his starts were at either 2B or 3B. No starts at 2B after 1973. Predictable issues. He ended up the Yanks starting 2B in 1975-76 with 150+ starts each year. After playing utility for the Cubs in 1977, he's now the starting 2B for the Pads. 1979-1983 is the period where he gets offense together (.287/.378/.487) and becomes a nifty platoon player with Gary Roenicke. In my replay, he's likely going to be an All Star 2B in that era. * * * * * There are many others, and I get that it's a thankless job. Things like Lowenstein are going to happen - obscure player, though a favorite of folks like me who grew up in the era (why I started in 1974) and were early Jamesians. But the Murray, Rice, Lynn things are more worrisome as they're extremely famous players that you think would be caught be people given the install base. Again, I know the historical player database is utterly thankless work. I appreciate all the work people have done on it over the past two decades. * * * * * On a side not, as the years go by in a replay, does the game pick up on positional changes? Will Pete Rose get a 1B rating in 1979? Will Yount's SS rating get destroyed and a CF pop up in the mid-80s? Does this quite passable rating for Foster in CF go away after 1978 given he never played in CF after that? Does the game address Paul Molitor's health issues and move him off 2B? Right now he has a 64 rating at 2B, and an uncomfortable 45 rating at SS. Is the game going to realize after 1980 and the injuries that they need to get Molitor off 2B? Does a 3B rating pop up in 1982? Same thing with Brian Downing losing the ability to catch? I ask because I would think that the same feature in the coding that would address those changes would also catch things like Eddie Murry being a CF and zero it out. Last edited by jdw; 09-09-2018 at 08:50 PM.