Things I've learned about myself while playing OOTP

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

See, if I see one of those flat, game-generated jerseys, it instantly pulls me out of the immersion, primarily because I'm so used to having shadows and textures and wordmarks and buttons that actually make it look real:



I know everyone's different, but to me, realistic uniforms make such an incredible difference. I suppose I might be biased, considering I make all my own jerseys, but still. Going back to the game-generated ones would be torture for me.

I will admit that they of course look nice ... better than the flat ones. But to be honest, depending on the availability of a uniform for whether to include a certain team name or not, is unreasonable to me. I've been going through 1 1/2 years with my current fictional league without them pretty fine.

[tds7887]

I realized I hate divisions and I hate too many teams in a league. 8 teams per league is perfect, 6 if your starting a new league and 10 if you keep at it long enough. 12 is about the limit.

I also don't like bullpens. The big sabermetric war is on "wins" right now and I enjoy having the stat mean more than it does now (although admittedly still not meaning much)

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by Westheim

I will admit that they of course look nice ... better than the flat ones. But to be honest, depending on the availability of a uniform for whether to include a certain team name or not, is unreasonable to me. I've been going through 1 1/2 years with my current fictional league without them pretty fine.

I can totally understand that. I suppose I've spoiled myself by being able to create my own jerseys for whatever team I need. Now I'm a uniform snob.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Westheim

I will admit that they of course look nice ... better than the flat ones. But to be honest, depending on the availability of a uniform for whether to include a certain team name or not, is unreasonable to me. I've been going through 1 1/2 years with my current fictional league without them pretty fine.

I've deleted leagues because I did not have uniforms for them and no one made them for me. I have one league where out of the 8 teams 5 have uniforms and logos 3 teams do not and it drives me batty.

[Pdubya64]

Sign me up for the OCD club. I have always been too much the perfectionist... and suffered from my own slings and arrows accordingly. Sucks to be me, I know!

I am getting geared up to start a new fictional league, so this thread is a great find. Thanks for all the suggestions and thoughts- like others, there are things I would not have considered on my own. If I can get past the formulation stage and manage to get something I like perhaps I will post in the Dynasty thread at some point.

As far as the type of game is concerned, I didn't "discover" Baseball until 1985 and so I don't claim to be a nut like some concerning the game. But I do feel that OOTP is special for all the various ways one can squeeze enjoyment out of it. Fictional has become my favorite for many of the same reasons pointed out in this thread, although the creation "bar" is set fairly high for the uninitiated, it ends up being worth the up-front cost of entry. The immersion factor is hard to beat with hand-picked team names and uniforms, etc.
Now I need to get back to my research!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by tds7887

The big sabermetric war is on "wins" right now and I enjoy having the stat mean more than it does now (although admittedly still not meaning much)

That war is pretty much won, with everyone except the dinosaurs understanding what a junk stat that is. The actual war is ERA (which is a team stat reflecting the performance of not just the pitcher but also the bullpen and the defense, plus luck) vs FIP (and xFIP), which measures actual pitching performance. MLB front offices are switching over to FIP/xFIP (see Tim Lincecum and the Slow Death of ERA | FanGraphs Baseball ).

For those of you who never follow links, here's Dave Cameron on the subject: "There are a ton of variables that are large factors in ERA which are influenced by things other than the pitcher, and just crediting or blaming the pitcher for everything that happens when he’s on the mound can lead to some mistaken conclusions. Run prevention is not synonymous with pitching; run prevention is pitching and defense, along with the sequencing of when the various events occur. The pitcher is a major factor in run prevention, but we should be more interested in isolating his role in the result than in holding the entire result against him."

Wins and ERA are not effective measures of evaluating pitching performance. Modernize and learn to evaluate pitchers only by things they control, like FIP.

[Bluenoser]

Wolf - question for you:

I'm one of those old goats, in the sense that I still use the old basic stats. I'm not one of those old goats, in the sense that I'm resistant to change.

I'd like to get more "modernized" but have always had a tough time wrapping my head around a lot of the new numbers and making sense out of them and understanding how the formulas work.

Basically, I'm looking for a recommendation for 4 - 8 of the more important stats (or less if there's not that many) to use in evaluating a players worth. For pitching and hitting.

Maybe I'm off in left field too, maybe there isn't a specific set of stats that give you a good value of a player, maybe it depends on situation.

I hear FIP referred to a lot, and have gotten pretty comfortable using it, but what other stats should someone like myself (old goat who wants to learn while remaining old) use most often?



BTW - I'm currently reading/perusing "The Book" and "Baseball Between the Numbers". Had these books for well over a year and keep going back to them. Sometimes they're just overwhelming.

[The Wolf]

Bluenoser - Good for you. Those are excellent books and will teach you a lot (at least they taught me a lot).

Read this:

Fear Not the Abbrv: A Baseball Advanced Stats Primer | The Same Page

It's folksy, but it gets the job you want done.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Bluenoser - Good for you. Those are excellent books and will teach you a lot (at least they taught me a lot).

Read this:

Fear Not the Abbrv: A Baseball Advanced Stats Primer | The Same Page

It's folksy, but it gets the job you want done.

Bah. [Just kidding, Wolf! ]

But this is yet another thing that I have learned about myself while playing OOTPB: I learned that I don't trust Sabermetrics because, to me, they involve too much subjectivity and are not even precise or consistent as to their calculations.

[Cue The Wolf's comment about me getting my dinosaur butt into the 21st Century, etc., etc. ]

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Bah. [Just kidding, Wolf! ]

But this is yet another thing that I have learned about myself while playing OOTPB: I learned that I don't trust Sabermetrics because, to me, they involve too much subjectivity and are not even precise or consistent as to their calculations.

[Cue The Wolf's comment about me getting my dinosaur butt into the 21st Century, etc., etc. ]

Please explain to me how FIP is subjective.

From FanGraphs:

"For those curious, here’s the formula for FIP:

FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant

The constant is solely to bring FIP onto an ERA scale and is generally around 3.20. You can find historical FIP constant values here, or you can derive the constant by taking league-average FIP and subtracting that from league-average ERA."

I'm totally missing the subjective part.

[D-BacksJosh]

I would have to agree that Wins is probably the most useless used stat by sportscasters. I can't stand hearing them point out a pitcher's W/L record during games. I wonder how long it will continue to be used for HOF induction requirements.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by D-BacksJosh

I would have to agree that Wins is probably the most useless used stat by sportscasters. I can't stand hearing them point out a pitcher's W/L record during games. I wonder how long it will continue to be used for HOF induction requirements.

Wins, RBI, BA, ERA...dinosaur stats.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Please explain to me how FIP is subjective.

From FanGraphs:

"For those curious, here’s the formula for FIP:

FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant

The constant is solely to bring FIP onto an ERA scale and is generally around 3.20. You can find historical FIP constant values here, or you can derive the constant by taking league-average FIP and subtracting that from league-average ERA."

I'm totally missing the subjective part.

Why 13, 3, and 2? Can you explain that succinctly or do you just accept those numbers because an expert told you to? So, "constant" is not constant but is "generally" something that in itself relies upon previous calculations of the same statistic. And you wonder why you miss the "subjective" part?

Wolf, Josh, enjoy the game. Thank goodness it provides stats for all of us.

[The Wolf]

Bru, Bluenoser:

I strongly suggest that you both go to

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/3...01-wrap-up-and

and read each link of the intro 101 class in order. You will then have a solid grounding in modern stats.

Also:

Sabermetrics 101: wOBA - Bleed Cubbie Blue

Sabermetrics 101: wRC and wRC+ - Bleed Cubbie Blue

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Why 13, 3, and 2? Can you explain that succinctly or do you just accept those numbers because an expert told you to? So, "constant" is not constant but is "generally" something that in itself relies upon previous calculations of the same statistic. And you wonder why you miss the "subjective" part?

Wolf, Josh, enjoy the game. Thank goodness it provides stats for all of us.

Those are all value constants that were mathematically determined by published research. There is no mystery in sabermetrics. Everyone not working for an MLB team publishes everything, and everyone else peer reviews it.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Why 13, 3, and 2? Can you explain that succinctly or do you just accept those numbers because an expert told you to?

As The Wolf said, the constants are derived from research and observation, in the same way the gravitational constant or Hubble constant or other constants in science are determined.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

As The Wolf said, the constants are derived from research and observation, in the same way the gravitational constant or Hubble constant or other constants in science are determined.

Why do I suddenly suspect you of SABR membership?

[Bluenoser]

Thanks for the recommendations and links.

After my post, I spent an hour or so over at FanGraphs and was reading through some of the stats and definitions.

wOBA was the first, a real good read and easy to understand. They also mentioned wRAA as being useful. Delved into it a bit too.

I'll definitely read up on the other suggested sites as well.

Cheers

[The Wolf]

Learn how to use wOBA, WRC+, WAR and FIP/xFIP to evaluate players and you will better understand baseball. In OOTP that translates to better player transactions and winning more often.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Learn how to use wOBA, WRC+, WAR and FIP/xFIP to evaluate players and you will better understand baseball. In OOTP that translates to better player transactions and winning more often.

Nice - those are the exact stats I was digging into the most at FanGraphs.

Tks again.