Competitive balance discussion

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

Wow.

What? That's life! Packs are random within their odds, so there are great packs, bad packs, and everything in between.

My personal team is still buried in a Bronze level league, I did not have much luck with my packs at all. But, again, **** happens.

[Westheim]

I don't know, maybe it's me, but my neck thickens up when I see people bitching about a gold card in their pack. I know, you'd like it, Sunshine, but you're not going to be the first OOTP PT player to haul three perfects and two diamonds from a single standard pack...

A slight detour now. I play the federal lottery all the time. There are two drawings a week. I know my chances are pathetic, but from time to time some numb, dumb idiot wins €15m and it might as well be me then.

From July through December last year I went 19 straight weeks winning ZERO. Not even a consolation price. Not even with my priced Raccoons Retired Numbers. The last drawing before Christmas I then won five bucks. Did I write an email to the lottery complaining about those sad five bucks? No. When I won my first five bucks in almost half a year, I didn't throw a tantrum that I didn't win the jackpot.

Chances for a gold card in a standard pack in PT are vaguely in the same ballpark as winning five bucks in that lottery. The ticket roughly costs the same. When I drew my third Zack Wheeler, I had a good laugh. Okay, it was the laughter of a crazed guy that had seen too much ****, but I didn't make a new thread just to sound off.

Bear with developers of all games, any game, for a bit, that have to put up with people whining or cussing over their games all the damn time, usually for no reason. The game clearly states the odds. They are not in your favor. There is no need to sound off about the next pack with Steven Matz (61) and five 40-somethings. We all open those. None of us gets anywhere with them. Those cards are 50 PP towards the next pack. Only very few feel the need to voice their continuous disappointment about it. You will open many of those before you pull a perfect card.

And then somebody whines about pulling a gold? Pff!!

I could not be a game developer and live off that. Because I would tell all these whiners what I think of them, in frank terms. I will consistently have sympathy for game developers that deal with threads like the one that was merged into this cesspool in swift fashion, so they can focus on something actually important. E.g. their game.

[Airdrop01]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Packs are random within their odds, so there are great packs, bad packs, and everything in between.

This would have been an appropriate, professional response rather than the first one.



At least respect your customers. That will serve you well, brother.


I am genuinely trying to help you here. This is what I would tell my kids or friends as well.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

This would have been an appropriate, professional response rather than the first one.



At least respect your customers. That will serve you well, brother.


I am genuinely trying to help you here. This is what I would tell my kids or friends as well.

Please. I like the fact that he talks like a regular human.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

This would have been an appropriate, professional response rather than the first one.



At least respect your customers. That will serve you well, brother.


I am genuinely trying to help you here. This is what I would tell my kids or friends as well.

Oh come on, you can't be serious. He put a smile after it.

I get tired of reading the constant stream of my pack sucks, or is someone out to get me. I can only imagine how tired of it he gets.

Someone has to have a pretty thin skin to take offense to that, or just looking to start trouble.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

This would have been an appropriate, professional response rather than the first one.

I did not read his response as disrespectful. But then I am a mind-numbed fanboy who can't think for himself, so what do I know.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

Oh come on, you can't be serious. He put a smile after it.

I get tired of reading the constant stream of my pack sucks, or is someone out to get me. I can only imagine how tired of it he gets.

Someone has to have a pretty thin skin to take offense to that, or just looking to start trouble.

Yes for under 40 bucks (Which is all you ever need to spend, Your choice) and a lifetime or at least a year until the next edition comes out . I will never understand the crying about whale teams or lousy packs or OOTP intentional attemps to cheat the customers in PT. You do not have to play this mode. The regular game is and has always been wonderful. Go back to playing it. You can call me a fan boy but I feel Markus should be able to make all the money he can on this game. I can never repay all the years of pleasure this game has given me. There is no price on that.

[Zorro]

In truth we lost a great programmer because of that . Shaun Sullivan who made Pure Sim (Which I thought was a great simulation) took customer criticism to much to heart and ended up giving his last edition away and then quitting. He took useless complaints from people to much to heart and he walked away from his dream. I use to talk to Shaun and tried to let him know what a great person and not just a programmer he was. He started his own business and claimed he was just to busy to put out the kind of game he wanted to but I knew he was just to nice of a guy and could not handle any crybaby criticism. He always tried to please every customer and that was his down fall. He never realized or learned the fact that some people are just ignorant and rude and just liked to cause drama because their life sucked so they loved to take it out on others. I miss him to this day. Not just for the game but for the person he is . He was another gift in my life.

[pizzaddict]

Zorro, you make it sound like the guy is dead. He is alive and kicking and working on an engine for a new baseball game.

https://twitter.com/LiquidSullivan?lang=en

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by pizzaddict

Zorro, you make it sound like the guy is dead. He is alive and kicking and working on an engine for a new baseball game.

Lol, Sorry if it sounded like that, All I meant was he is wonderful programmer (Customer caring.) who took EVERYTHING to heart so much that it creeped into his personal life and a lot of the complaints were just bogus.

[AirmenSmith]

Zorro,

I agree many of us could never repay ootp for the amount of enjoyment the team has brought to many of us. They should be able to make as much money as possible, many of us would support them raising the price if they deemed necessary. Fan boys or not OOTP is amazing and we will continue to buy it every year.

I guess I just don't understand the fight between F2P and P2W, as well as the censorship that OOTP has on the PT board here. How are these discussions about F2P and P2W any different then the ones we have all had on the OOTP general board? We have all seen the disagreements about online vs offline, or historical vs current, or fictional vs non fictional. Those disagreements have and will always take place but those threads almost never get locked.

Even when civil conversations are taking place about F2P and P2W, we have the threads locked and why? Why is it different here then the other boards?

[SayHey1]

I'll honor a Dev request to keep comments on Perfect Team balance to this thread.

I'm new to the OOTP series. I bought my first ever edition this year prior to even hearing about Perfect Team. Once I got my hands on Perfect Team, it felt a lot like my childhood days of playing the board game Superstar Baseball. Super exciting!

Because of this, when OOTP 19 went on sale this year, I bought 2 of my friends the game when it was on sale as early Xmas presents....neither of whom were what you'd call huge baseball fans...(one of them had no idea who most of the big names from the 70's-80's were for example).

Despite the above, we all tried it at first and fell in love with the game!....at least for about 7-8 weeks of play. It was a blast looking for that "diamond in the rough" that you theorized would help your team compete at a value! I'm sure most here can relate to this. :P

Recently though, all 3 of us have come to the conclusion that even after spending a reasonable amount of money ($20-$40) we have determined that it can move you up almost too quickly in leagues (2 of us are in Diamond, 1 in Perfect) but once you achieve this level you are seriously outmanned by the Whales who obviously are spending much more than we are. Moreover, the players we need to upgrade to compete at this level are so prohibitively expensive that it will take months and months (if not years) to save the points needed to acquire them.

Because of the above, all 3 of us are waning in our interest and its a real bummer. I see similar sentiments talked about on the board here. It's a real thing going on in the PT universe.

I know there are people out there who love the game so much they can't stand to hear criticism about it, but Devs need to know the status of the game for those that are losing interest. I want PT to be successful. I think there are solutions to continue to make PT fun for all. I hope they consider the feedback as intended which is to improve it for all rather than how some characterize it as "whining".

Thanks for your attention to my humble thoughts.

[Cobbiusto]

Not sure when it happened over the course of my lifetime that people began to believe that because someone else has a thing, they deserve that thing too. I grew up poor and learned early on that if I wanted something I didn’t have, then I needed to work hard and save for it or else learn to do without it. I am not poor now because I did work hard and save, and I could afford plenty of PPs to compete with the best. But I haven’t spent a dime and I am enjoying the heck out of this format as my teams bounce around from bronze to silver to gold and back. Because I also learned that my enjoyment in life isn’t directly related to the amount of money I spend. If you want to compete at the top, then fork over the dough. If you are unwilling or unable to do so, then don’t worry about it. Your quality of life will not be affected by a bunch of blips on a computer. Even if you did win a F2P league, in the back of your mind you would still know you didn’t have the best team and couldn’t compete with the best so what would be the point? Another thing I have learned – Life is way too short to sweat the small stuff. If you enjoy this game, play it. If you don’t then quit and find something you do enjoy. Life is too short to be miserable unnecessarily. Enjoy the day all!

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by Cobbiusto

Not sure when it happened over the course of my lifetime that people began to believe that because someone else has a thing, they deserve that thing too. I grew up poor and learned early on that if I wanted something I didn’t have, then I needed to work hard and save for it or else learn to do without it. I am not poor now because I did work hard and save, and I could afford plenty of PPs to compete with the best. But I haven’t spent a dime and I am enjoying the heck out of this format as my teams bounce around from bronze to silver to gold and back. Because I also learned that my enjoyment in life isn’t directly related to the amount of money I spend. If you want to compete at the top, then fork over the dough. If you are unwilling or unable to do so, then don’t worry about it. Your quality of life will not be affected by a bunch of blips on a computer. Even if you did win a F2P league, in the back of your mind you would still know you didn’t have the best team and couldn’t compete with the best so what would be the point? Another thing I have learned – Life is way too short to sweat the small stuff. If you enjoy this game, play it. If you don’t then quit and find something you do enjoy. Life is too short to be miserable unnecessarily. Enjoy the day all!

Wow, Great post. Life is definitely to short to worry about the things that do not really matter.......

[Clavette]

Holy **** 49 pages. Guess I missed this thread.

I'd like to complain to my state that i bought a $20 scratch ticket and didn't win anything this week. I didn't bother to read the odds and now I'm offended..

Seriously though I think the perfect leagues should have type of tiered pyramid where the best of the best move up until theres only 1 or a few super top tier leagues. This would help with those who aren't able to compete with the brees' and waverunners of pt.

Just my opinion, but you know what they say about opinions

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by SayHey1

Recently though, all 3 of us have come to the conclusion that even after spending a reasonable amount of money ($20-$40) we have determined that it can move you up almost too quickly in leagues (2 of us are in Diamond, 1 in Perfect) but once you achieve this level you are seriously outmanned by the Whales who obviously are spending much more than we are. Moreover, the players we need to upgrade to compete at this level are so prohibitively expensive that it will take months and months (if not years) to save the points needed to acquire them.

Because of the above, all 3 of us are waning in our interest and its a real bummer. I see similar sentiments talked about on the board here. It's a real thing going on in the PT universe.

Serious question... what did you hope to accomplish with your $20-$40 investment?

[Thalion]

What’s the record for non logo/mod related thread?

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Thalion

What’s the record for non logo/mod related thread?

there's a thread in off topic with over 93000 replies....


got a ways to go to catch up

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Serious question... what did you hope to accomplish with your $20-$40 investment?

Well I'm not the person you're asking but I'm in the exact same position. Spent $40 because it seemed at the time it would help me keep pace with other teams, give me a better chance to win, and get promoted, which is the whole point, right?

With that small investment I made the playoffs every week, got promoted every week, and even won the WS once. Good times were had. But now I am in perfect league, I totally hit a wall because my gold/silver player roster just can't compete with perfect/diamond rosters. I can't improve my team because the points have dried up, I can't get relegated without tanking and risking a ban, and I certainly can't win. So yeah there are no good options for me really and I'm starting to lose interest. If you have any suggestions other than throwing hundreds of $$$ into the game, I'm all ears...

Lesson learned I suppose. I won't be throwing small amounts at this game next time around. Better to just chill in a lower league as an FTP team.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

Well I'm not the person you're asking but I'm in the exact same position. Spent $40 because it seemed at the time it would help me keep pace with other teams, give me a better chance to win, and get promoted, which is the whole point, right?

With that small investment I made the playoffs every week, got promoted every week, and even won the WS once. Good times were had. But now I am in perfect league, I totally hit a wall because my gold/silver player roster just can't compete with perfect/diamond rosters. I can't improve my team because the points have dried up, I can't get relegated without tanking and risking a ban, and I certainly can't win. So yeah there are no good options for me really and I'm starting to lose interest. If you have any suggestions other than throwing hundreds of $$$ into the game, I'm all ears...

Lesson learned I suppose. I won't be throwing small amounts at this game next time around. Better to just chill in a lower league as an FTP team.

I don't have any other suggestions, but this is exactly my point. There's no way that $40 is going to compete with people that are spending $1000 or more. That's senseless. All that $40 will do is put you a level or two above the free players. So, if you spent $40 in hopes of getting above the free players, welcome to diamond level (perfect if you got lucky in week 4 and were in a weaker league).