Unsigned Free Agents - Page 5

David Watts · 08-31-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, I have tested this with the current build (upcoming patch #4) in 3 different leagues (fictional, 24 teams, all defaults) now, and this is not an issue here. Granted, some years the teams do not have that much money to spend, but players adjust and lower their demands, and only very rarely will a greedy top player remain a free agent into the season. Financials are very stable over time. So, this issue seems to be fixed with the changes that have been made lately.

The next patch will be released tomorrow, by the way

Any hints on the new features????

MizzouRah · 08-31-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger

How many years have you done since you made this change? Is this with just one league over one offseason? If so, the sample size is too small to say it's a definite fix. Regardless, I'm looking forward to starting a new league with the new patch tomorrow and seeing what it brings.

I never said it was a definite fix, but it's a heck of a lot better now and seems to be fixed.

CUBEicle · 08-31-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, I have tested this with the current build (upcoming patch #4) in 3 different leagues (fictional, 24 teams, all defaults) now, and this is not an issue here. Granted, some years the teams do not have that much money to spend, but players adjust and lower their demands, and only very rarely will a greedy top player remain a free agent into the season. Financials are very stable over time. So, this issue seems to be fixed with the changes that have been made lately.

The next patch will be released tomorrow, by the way

Inclusive of a Mac version?

PSUColonel · 08-31-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Nice!

For seasons in progress, will these changes automatically be made or is there something we need to change?

I'm assuming there is something we will need to change in the financial setup page, if so.. can you list those changes here?

Thank you!!!

Good question

endgame · 08-31-2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Okay, there was indeed an issue that caused imported OOTP 11 league to not have enough revenue in future seasons. It was okay for the first year if imported right at the beginning of the offseason, as advised. However, in subsequent years Teams were running out of money.

You can fix this stuff in your league right now. Simply increase the average local & national media contract by about 30% each and then either use the function to assign fictional financials to each team or edit teams manually to reflect the changes.

The next patch will fix the importer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

My belief is that it changes the teams budgets to reflect the changes that you made to what Markus is suggested, thus they now have more money to spend.

I changed the settings to match the 2nd screenshot I posted and then instead of using the "assign to fictional teams button" I just gave each team $10 million so the good FA's would start to get signed.

When this season is over, I would assume going forward, the financials would be fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Nice!

For seasons in progress, will these changes automatically be made or is there something we need to change?

I'm assuming there is something we will need to change in the financial setup page, if so.. can you list those changes here?

Thank you!!!

FWIW, I took a duplicate of my existing league as a test and followed the original 'fix' (bolded in Markus' comments above), used the Adjust Team Financials, then simmed forward 10 years with the patch that will soon be released. I noted that payrolls increased, but not substantially or way out of whack. Originally the highest paid #s were 3-1/2 million a year, now they were 6-7 million and only a few. The teams were all showing budget increases, but none were dramatically in the red. In fact, I'm not sure there was one in the red now that I think on it. All budgets had increased accordingly, but I did not see an unexplained escalation in salaries, overall payrolls, or arbitrations.

The FA pool looked first like there were a couple of strays that I thought should have been signed, but after turning scouting off, their real picture varied enough to adequately explain why they remained unsigned. In addition, their particular positions were well represented in the rosters.

So, I'm thinking the patch will adjust the importer, but for 'seasons in progress', yes, you'll have to mitigate with an initial adjustment, but after that the changes you made and those made in the coding will take care of the future.

PSUColonel · 08-31-2011, 09:04 PM

Will an ajustment be needed if you started the league in version 12?

endgame · 08-31-2011, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Will an ajustment be needed if you started the league in version 12?

Personally, I'd not seen the problem, but obviously- as it's been brought up within this thread -others have and if I had to guess, yes. Officially, that's Markus' call, but if it appears to address the issue in fictional imported leagues, I don't see why it wouldn't embrace v12 leagues, too. I am most unclear about the default MLB league, though, as I've looked at the fictional setups almost exclusively since first hearing about it. Sorry, guessing's all I can do at this stage.

endgame · 08-31-2011, 10:11 PM

I'll add one comment FWIW that did surprise me a bit and, honestly, I'm not sure yet how I feel about it, but instinctively I'm not a fan: the Adjust Financials for Teams is based on payrolls after your adjustments and the market sizes get adjusted, too.

It was early enough in my season not to overwhelm me, but I'm not sure how I'd have reacted if it changed ten years in and I'd been accustomed to a certain distribution among the teams. Again, in the interest of full disclosure, I haven't yet done that with the 10yr+ test leagues, but I'm thinking the patch'll be out before I have time to reach a conclusion.

MizzouRah · 08-31-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

FWIW, I took a duplicate of my existing league as a test and followed the original 'fix' (bolded in Markus' comments above), used the Adjust Team Financials, then simmed forward 10 years with the patch that will soon be released. I noted that payrolls increased, but not substantially or way out of whack. Originally the highest paid #s were 3-1/2 million a year, now they were 6-7 million and only a few. The teams were all showing budget increases, but none were dramatically in the red. In fact, I'm not sure there was one in the red now that I think on it. All budgets had increased accordingly, but I did not see an unexplained escalation in salaries, overall payrolls, or arbitrations.

The FA pool looked first like there were a couple of strays that I thought should have been signed, but after turning scouting off, their real picture varied enough to adequately explain why they remained unsigned. In addition, their particular positions were well represented in the rosters.

So, I'm thinking the patch will adjust the importer, but for 'seasons in progress', yes, you'll have to mitigate with an initial adjustment, but after that the changes you made and those made in the coding will take care of the future.

That's what I thought and I wondered if Markus could post the "new" financial settings?

PSUColonel · 08-31-2011, 10:33 PM

right....this way there is no question or debate.

endgame · 08-31-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

That's what I thought and I wondered if Markus could post the "new" financial settings?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

right....this way there is no question or debate.

Right. Well, good luck with that. Hope he delivers what you're expecting.

Le Grande Orange · 08-31-2011, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

..I'm not sure yet how I feel about it, but instinctively I'm not a fan: the Adjust Financials for Teams is based on payrolls after your adjustments and the market sizes get adjusted, too.

I think that comes down to the way OOTP's financial model works at its heart, which is NOT based on the economic capacity of a given city to generate revenue. This is something I'd really like to get changed at some point, as the way it works now is essentially backwards from how it is in real life.

thbroman · 09-01-2011, 07:29 AM

I must say that I am a little mystified about the origin of this problem. Financials in OOTP11 were quite stable. The financial screens were difficult to interpret, and I thought that's where the fixes had been made for this release to make the financial reports more transparent. But clearly some other changes were made under the hood, which has led to the phenomenon reported here.
Or am I missing something?

As for LGO's point above: Surely you are not saying that the "market size" variable has no effect whatsoever on a team's revenues? I can see for myself in looking at different teams in my leagues that it does. At least, I think I can!
I think you're saying that there is no definitive relationship between the city named as team's home and some intrinsic revenue-generating factor, right? New York will always be a larger base market city for a team than St. Louis - something like that. We've discussede this before, if I have understood you correctly.

MizzouRah · 09-01-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Right. Well, good luck with that. Hope he delivers what you're expecting.

Worst case, I could start test MLB league with the new patch and copy the settings.

To me, it's definitely the team development budget that is throwing things off.

Markus Heinsohn · 09-01-2011, 09:38 AM

To get the financials balanced in OOTP is really a daunting task. Unlike in real life, there are tons of things which need to be just right in order for the league financials to stay stable. In real life things are not stable at all, so it's something entirely different...

I guess for OOTP 13 I need to do some more tweaking, let's see.

luger · 09-01-2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

To get the financials balanced in OOTP is really a daunting task. Unlike in real life, there are tons of things which need to be just right in order for the league financials to stay stable. In real life things are not stable at all, so it's something entirely different...

I guess for OOTP 13 I need to do some more tweaking, let's see.

Yeah, I don't envy the task of keeping it together. Financials seem to a complex little beast.

Le Grande Orange · 09-01-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thbroman

I think you're saying that there is no definitive relationship between the city named as team's home and some intrinsic revenue-generating factor, right? New York will always be a larger base market city for a team than St. Louis - something like that.

Yes, that's what I meant. And it's a pretty important thing because that's how it works in real life. There isn't a major league team in Topeka because it simply isn't large enough to generate enough revenue to cover the expenses at the major league level.

That disconnect between city size and its ability to support a ball club has been a shortcoming in my opinion.

rdomico · 09-01-2011, 01:12 PM

Looks like it works much better now. Thanks!

PSUColonel · 09-01-2011, 01:15 PM

did you have to make changes in the financial settings page? Are the 2011 financials no longer valid?

rdomico · 09-01-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

did you have to make changes in the financial settings page? Are the 2011 financials no longer valid?

I used the new default settings.

08-31-2011, 10:11 PM	#88
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,843	I'll add one comment FWIW that did surprise me a bit and, honestly, I'm not sure yet how I feel about it, but instinctively I'm not a fan: the Adjust Financials for Teams is based on payrolls after your adjustments and the market sizes get adjusted, too. It was early enough in my season not to overwhelm me, but I'm not sure how I'd have reacted if it changed ten years in and I'd been accustomed to a certain distribution among the teams. Again, in the interest of full disclosure, I haven't yet done that with the 10yr+ test leagues, but I'm thinking the patch'll be out before I have time to reach a conclusion. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

09-01-2011, 07:29 AM	#93
thbroman All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 867	I must say that I am a little mystified about the origin of this problem. Financials in OOTP11 were quite stable. The financial screens were difficult to interpret, and I thought that's where the fixes had been made for this release to make the financial reports more transparent. But clearly some other changes were made under the hood, which has led to the phenomenon reported here. Or am I missing something? As for LGO's point above: Surely you are not saying that the "market size" variable has no effect whatsoever on a team's revenues? I can see for myself in looking at different teams in my leagues that it does. At least, I think I can! I think you're saying that there is no definitive relationship between the city named as team's home and some intrinsic revenue-generating factor, right? New York will always be a larger base market city for a team than St. Louis - something like that. We've discussede this before, if I have understood you correctly. Last edited by thbroman; 09-01-2011 at 07:34 AM.

09-01-2011, 09:38 AM	#95
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,739	To get the financials balanced in OOTP is really a daunting task. Unlike in real life, there are tons of things which need to be just right in order for the league financials to stay stable. In real life things are not stable at all, so it's something entirely different... I guess for OOTP 13 I need to do some more tweaking, let's see. __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

08-31-2011, 09:04 PM	#86
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,990 Blog Entries: 37	Will an ajustment be needed if you started the league in version 12?

08-31-2011, 10:33 PM	#90
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,990 Blog Entries: 37	right....this way there is no question or debate.

09-01-2011, 01:12 PM	#98
rdomico All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Monaca, PA Posts: 824	Looks like it works much better now. Thanks!

09-01-2011, 01:15 PM	#99
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,990 Blog Entries: 37	did you have to make changes in the financial settings page? Are the 2011 financials no longer valid?