Reliever gets SAVE in 7 to 1 win???

ravinhood · 03-26-2007, 07:23 PM

I had a game where a relief pitcher got a save in a 7 to 1 win. Ummm I always thought it had to be within 3 runs to collect a save have they changed the rules recently?? BTW this was a spring training game not a regular season game.

Erik W. · 03-26-2007, 07:27 PM

Did he come in in the eighth, then the winning team scored more in the bottom of the eighth or top of the ninth, then the same pitcher finished it out? That would be a save. There are other scenarios where it's possible as well. Need more info.

phenom · 03-26-2007, 07:28 PM

Need.More.Info.

How many innings did he pitch? What was the score when he entered? Stuff like that, please.

ravinhood · 03-26-2007, 07:31 PM

The score was 7 to 1 guys and HE gave up the 1 run lol Also all the runs came before he came into relieve.

billethius · 03-26-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravinhood

The score was 7 to 1 guys and HE gave up the 1 run lol Also all the runs came before he came into relieve.

How many innings did he pitch? If he pitched 3 (I believe), that counts as a save.

phenom · 03-26-2007, 09:26 PM

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure just about all bets are off in spring training.

Nonetheless, if he pitched innings 7-9, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if the score was 222-0, he still gets the save.

crafty35a · 03-26-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenom

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure just about all bets are off in spring training.

What do you mean by this? I'm pretty sure the save rule is identical in spring training. Wins to get a little funky do to starters not going 5 innings, though.

RBLwebguy · 03-26-2007, 09:58 PM

The pitcher gets a save if he fulfills at least one of the following three conditions:

1. He comes into the game with a lead of no more than three runs.
2. He comes into the game with the potential tying run being either on base, at bat, or on deck.
3. He pitches for at least three innings after entering the game with a lead.

StyxNCa · 03-26-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBLwebguy

The pitcher gets a save if he fulfills at least one of the following three conditions:

1. He comes into the game with a lead of no more than three runs.
2. He comes into the game with the potential tying run being either on base, at bat, or on deck.
3. He pitches for at least three innings after entering the game with a lead.

It's more a judgement of the official scorer anymore. I've seen Bobby Thigpen pitch the 9th of a 9-0 game, Chicago scoring the 9 well before the 9th inning, and Thigpen got the save. Eckersley got more cheap saves this way than I can count.

Cras · 03-26-2007, 10:30 PM

The save is far more versitile than people realize. It is due to the modern game, where the closer is pretty much relegated to only pitching in the 9th, that the save has become more recognized with the three run lead requirement, and not the tying run on base, at bat, or on deck.

Redleg · 03-26-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

It's more a judgement of the official scorer anymore. I've seen Bobby Thigpen pitch the 9th of a 9-0 game, Chicago scoring the 9 well before the 9th inning, and Thigpen got the save. Eckersley got more cheap saves this way than I can count.

The awarding of saves is not a judgment call. Here is the rule:

SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS
10.20
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

Cras · 03-26-2007, 10:55 PM

Correct. Saves are a cut and dry rule. There is one way to figure saves, and it is accepted by all.

It is holds where there is grey matter. There are two manners to determine holds, and that is why you will see contradictory results depending on your sources.

Redleg · 03-26-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

There are two manners to determine holds, and that is why you will see contradictory results depending on your sources.

What are the two methods? The only definition of a hold I know goes like this:

Relief pitcher enters in a save situation, and later hands the ball off to the next relief pitcher with the game still in a save situation.

ravinhood · 03-27-2007, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBLwebguy

The pitcher gets a save if he fulfills at least one of the following three conditions:

1. He comes into the game with a lead of no more than three runs.
2. He comes into the game with the potential tying run being either on base, at bat, or on deck.
3. He pitches for at least three innings after entering the game with a lead.

Ok that's it the #3 rule. I never knew that one. I always thought it was 3 runs or less. Shows how much I know about the rules of baseball. lol Thanks for clearing that up. He did pitch 3 innings.

Eumel · 03-27-2007, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redleg

(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

Well, there is a bit of a grey area there. There's no definition what "effectively" means.

Cras · 03-27-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eumel

Well, there is a bit of a grey area there. There's no definition what "effectively" means.

It means that he does not relinquish the lead.

Cras · 03-27-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redleg

What are the two methods? The only definition of a hold I know goes like this:

Relief pitcher enters in a save situation, and later hands the ball off to the next relief pitcher with the game still in a save situation.

I can't remember quite the exact differences. One method is more strict, did the guy leave the game with the lead the same or bigger than when he came in. The other is that the guy just does not relinquish the lead during his innings pitched. I once came across a great article describing the two methods and which news agencies uses which. I will try to find it again.

Go Tribe · 03-30-2007, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

It means that he does not relinquish the lead.

this is incorrect

he can't pitch 3 innings in a 9-0 game, give up 8 runs (thus not relinquishing the lead) and get a save unless it's a total homer official scorer. there IS grey area in this one section alone, otherwise it's completely black and white

03-26-2007, 07:23 PM	#1
ravinhood Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 374 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Reliever gets SAVE in 7 to 1 win??? I had a game where a relief pitcher got a save in a 7 to 1 win. Ummm I always thought it had to be within 3 runs to collect a save have they changed the rules recently?? BTW this was a spring training game not a regular season game.

03-26-2007, 07:27 PM	#2
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	Did he come in in the eighth, then the winning team scored more in the bottom of the eighth or top of the ninth, then the same pitcher finished it out? That would be a save. There are other scenarios where it's possible as well. Need more info. __________________ Free agent baseball fan. Let's go (insert team name here)!

03-26-2007, 07:31 PM	#4
ravinhood Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 374 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	The score was 7 to 1 guys and HE gave up the 1 run lol Also all the runs came before he came into relieve. Last edited by ravinhood; 03-26-2007 at 07:32 PM.

03-26-2007, 09:26 PM	#6
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,711	Not only that, but I'm pretty sure just about all bets are off in spring training. Nonetheless, if he pitched innings 7-9, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if the score was 222-0, he still gets the save. __________________ reported

03-26-2007, 10:30 PM	#10
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	The save is far more versitile than people realize. It is due to the modern game, where the closer is pretty much relegated to only pitching in the 9th, that the save has become more recognized with the three run lead requirement, and not the tying run on base, at bat, or on deck. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!

03-26-2007, 07:28 PM	#3
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,711	Need.More.Info. How many innings did he pitch? What was the score when he entered? Stuff like that, please. __________________ reported

03-26-2007, 09:58 PM	#8
RBLwebguy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canuckistan Posts: 5,157	The pitcher gets a save if he fulfills at least one of the following three conditions: 1. He comes into the game with a lead of no more than three runs. 2. He comes into the game with the potential tying run being either on base, at bat, or on deck. 3. He pitches for at least three innings after entering the game with a lead.

03-26-2007, 10:55 PM	#12
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	Correct. Saves are a cut and dry rule. There is one way to figure saves, and it is accepted by all. It is holds where there is grey matter. There are two manners to determine holds, and that is why you will see contradictory results depending on your sources. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!