Bullpen Idiots

[texasmame]

Can we please, PLEASE at least have the option to turn off the "getting tired" option when warming up guys in the bullpen? It's not realistic nor does it add to the fun of the game.

I could see this happening if you get a guy up, say, three times in a game and don't bring him in but to get him up and leave him up for even an inning or so, for him to get "tired" because he apparently stands there and continues to throw even though he's warmed up is just asinine and detracts from the strategy and enjoyment of an otherwise stellar game.

[Airdrop01]

Originally Posted by texasmame

Can we please, PLEASE at least have the option to turn off the "getting tired" option when warming up guys in the bullpen? It's not realistic nor does it add to the fun of the game.

I could see this happening if you get a guy up, say, three times in a game and don't bring him in but to get him up and leave him up for even an inning or so, for him to get "tired" because he apparently stands there and continues to throw even though he's warmed up is just asinine and detracts from the strategy and enjoyment of an otherwise stellar game.

Why don't you just turn off the bullpen warmup then?

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

Why don't you just turn off the bullpen warmup then?

I enjoy the strategy and realism of having to anticipate when you may need a guy, so you have to get him warmed up in advance of coming in. Since, ya know, that's what they really do.

[Padreman]

Well don't complain if you leave them on there too long that's just like real world

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Padreman

Well don't complain if you leave them on there too long that's just like real world

Well, if you leave them there, they know to stop throwing when they've had enough to get warm. You see that all the time.

Maybe a "itchy" status would be appropriate if you leave them up too long (1.5 innings?) - then when you bring them in, they may or may not perform well. I stole that from the great "Baseball for Windows."

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by texasmame

Well, if you leave them there, they know to stop throwing when they've had enough to get warm. You see that all the time.

Maybe a "itchy" status would be appropriate if you leave them up too long (1.5 innings?) - then when you bring them in, they may or may not perform well. I stole that from the great "Baseball for Windows."

Maybe you could have a certain amount of pitches set for the pitcher for warmup or something ala the pitch count, but I dunno if that's a real thing.

[Padreman]

I know what will fix his issue having a bullpen coach to tell them when to stop and stuff

[jeffw3000]

Originally Posted by Padreman

Well don't complain if you leave them on there too long that's just like real world

I have to agree with the OP. It is not realistic to have the pitcher get tired in the bullpen. Often pitchers will just stand around in the Bullpen once they are warm rather than warm up until tired.

You often see the manager have to wait for the Bullpen pitcher to get warm before bringing them in. That is realistic, but I have seen thousands of baseball games and don't ever remember them saying, after a pitcher came in and got lid up, that he must have gotten tired while in warming in the pen.

I agree with the OP, you should be able to turn that off without having to turn off the warm-up option off, or at least tie it to the intelligence rating, so only dumb pitchers keep warming and get tired.

[Airdrop01]

All having it on does is prove that you remember to do it. It is just an exercise in button pushing. I don't know many people who have played this game much that leave it on.... some do, but that's not my bag.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

All having it on does is prove that you remember to do it. It is just an exercise in button pushing. I don't know many people who have played this game much that leave it on.... some do, but that's not my bag.

Well, it's part of managing a baseball game - bullpen management - and it's kinda critical. To have it FUBARed by this silly coding is not acceptable.

[Matt Arnold]

In real life, if you get a pitcher up, you should plan to bring him in. If you decide not to bring him in, then you should sit him down and then get him back up when you're ready to use him.

If pitchers in the pen never got tired, then you could do like in the past and get a pitcher up and ready in the 5th inning, keep him up until you need him in the 7th, and he'd be in perfect shape. Heck, you could start a guy warming in the 1st without any detrimental effect.

And anyways, just because a guy warming up switches to "tiring", it's not like he immediately loses all effectiveness. Keeping a guy "tiring" for a couple batters is probably not going to noticeably affect him at all. If you keep him warming up for an inning without using him, then yeah, that would have an effect, but I'm pretty sure that that would also be the case in real life, and that's why guys will start sitting down as soon as they know they're not coming in soon.

Basically, if you like the strategy of deciding when to get a guy warming up to get ready to come in, the strategy of making sure that he's not in the pen for too long is basically no different.

[Dargone]

Going to have to agree with the OP too. It's silly for a reliever to warmup so much that he's tired. This would never happen in real life. Bullpen usage is a BIG part of managing a baseball club, so turning it off detracts a lot from realism.

I'm actually reading LaRussa's book "The Last Strike" (fantastic read) at the moment and he talks a lot about bullpen usage throughout the book. Getting them up, when to bring them in, lefty/righty matchups, setup roles, closer roles, etc. He never once talks about relievers warming up so much that they tire themselves out. Why? Because it doesn't happen!

[Airdrop01]

Originally Posted by texasmame

To have it FUBARed by this silly coding is not acceptable.

Is that you, William Shatner?????

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

In real life, if you get a pitcher up, you should plan to bring him in. If you decide not to bring him in, then you should sit him down and then get him back up when you're ready to use him.

If pitchers in the pen never got tired, then you could do like in the past and get a pitcher up and ready in the 5th inning, keep him up until you need him in the 7th, and he'd be in perfect shape. Heck, you could start a guy warming in the 1st without any detrimental effect.

And anyways, just because a guy warming up switches to "tiring", it's not like he immediately loses all effectiveness. Keeping a guy "tiring" for a couple batters is probably not going to noticeably affect him at all. If you keep him warming up for an inning without using him, then yeah, that would have an effect, but I'm pretty sure that that would also be the case in real life, and that's why guys will start sitting down as soon as they know they're not coming in soon.

Basically, if you like the strategy of deciding when to get a guy warming up to get ready to come in, the strategy of making sure that he's not in the pen for too long is basically no different.

I understand your point and it is a fair one. Maybe the game could be coded in such a way to prevent that? If you start warming up a reliever in the first inning with the intention of bringing him in around the fifth inning, then perhaps the pitcher would sit down after a bit of time and be cold if you simply put him in the game at a much later date. There would be a window in other words of getting a guy up and him sitting down and getting cold again.

Maybe that's a stupid idea? I'm simply trying to think of a solution. It's a tough pill to swallow that relievers can warmup too much and be tired. Again, this would never happen in real life; however, you do make a fair point in your post. It's an interesting discussion regardless and I appreciate your thoughts.

[Painmantle]

Originally Posted by Dargone

Going to have to agree with the OP too. It's silly for a reliever to warmup so much that he's tired. This would never happen in real life. Bullpen usage is a BIG part of managing a baseball club, so turning it off detracts a lot from realism.

I'm actually reading LaRussa's book "The Last Strike" (fantastic read) at the moment and he talks a lot about bullpen usage throughout the book. Getting them up, when to bring them in, lefty/righty matchups, setup roles, closer roles, etc. He never once talks about relievers warming up so much that they tire themselves out. Why? Because it doesn't happen!

To say it doesn't happen is just silly, I believe no reliever admits he's tired when warming up, but I don't believe for one second that they all sit down before they get tired. Just because people can't remember to stop warming a guy up, and eventually he gets tired is not grounds for the system being broken, what is broken is the memory of the person playing the game. If you are so into playing games out that you want to use the Bullpen warm up feature, don't complain when it fails you because of your own inability to use it properly or efficiently. Your goal should be to figure out how to not let relievers get tired, not to have OOTP make a new setting for everything you have a problem remembering to do!

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

In real life, if you get a pitcher up, you should plan to bring him in. If you decide not to bring him in, then you should sit him down and then get him back up when you're ready to use him.

If pitchers in the pen never got tired, then you could do like in the past and get a pitcher up and ready in the 5th inning, keep him up until you need him in the 7th, and he'd be in perfect shape. Heck, you could start a guy warming in the 1st without any detrimental effect.

And anyways, just because a guy warming up switches to "tiring", it's not like he immediately loses all effectiveness. Keeping a guy "tiring" for a couple batters is probably not going to noticeably affect him at all. If you keep him warming up for an inning without using him, then yeah, that would have an effect, but I'm pretty sure that that would also be the case in real life, and that's why guys will start sitting down as soon as they know they're not coming in soon.

Basically, if you like the strategy of deciding when to get a guy warming up to get ready to come in, the strategy of making sure that he's not in the pen for too long is basically no different.

I see your points, but not asking for the ability to warm up a guy in the 1st then leave him up there for the remainder of the game. With the current system, it feels like guys get "tired" in the bullpen quicker than they would if they were pitching in the actual game!

Does. Not. Compute.

For instance, I get my setup guy up with 1 out in the 7th as I am pitching. The inning ends but I'm pretty sure I want him to start the 8th, so I leave him "up" while I bat in the bottom of the 7th. Normal half inning - no big rally or anything. Then, 8th inning comes around and. . . he's tired. I don't dare sit him down between innings, either, as he may get "cold." The system is just off - doesn't feel realistic. I mean, does this mean the dumbass kept throwing? C'mon, man.

Maybe have a complete two inning "up" stint have some sort of impact on him? Or a set number of batters - say, 10 batters faced, combined offense and defense, and a pitcher gets tired. Better still, if you get him up 3 times in the pen, he gets tired. That's realistic and something you do hear warnings about in real life baseball settings. Something - anything besides the current setup.

I know this has been brought up since it was instituted yet you guys seem hell-bent on keeping it in the game, with no ability to modify or turn it off.

trump
SAD!
/trump

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

To say it doesn't happen is just silly, I believe no reliever admits he's tired when warming up, but I don't believe for one second that they all sit down before they get tired. Just because people can't remember to stop warming a guy up, and eventually he gets tired is not grounds for the system being broken, what is broken is the memory of the person playing the game. If you are so into playing games out that you want to use the Bullpen warm up feature, don't complain when it fails you because of your own inability to use it properly or efficiently. Your goal should be to figure out how to not let relievers get tired, not to have OOTP make a new setting for everything you have a problem remembering to do!

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. A professional relief pitcher knows when he is ready. He is not going to continue to throw pitches and tire himself out in my opinion. Also, see post #16. That should not be happening.

As I espoused above, there might be a better solution? I don't manage games so it really doesn't matter to me. However, I tend to agree with the OP's post. YMMV

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

To say it doesn't happen is just silly, I believe no reliever admits he's tired when warming up, but I don't believe for one second that they all sit down before they get tired. Just because people can't remember to stop warming a guy up, and eventually he gets tired is not grounds for the system being broken, what is broken is the memory of the person playing the game. If you are so into playing games out that you want to use the Bullpen warm up feature, don't complain when it fails you because of your own inability to use it properly or efficiently. Your goal should be to figure out how to not let relievers get tired, not to have OOTP make a new setting for everything you have a problem remembering to do!

Guys get tired far too quickly as it stands. Full stop.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by texasmame

For instance, I get my setup guy up with 1 out in the 7th as I am pitching. The inning ends but I'm pretty sure I want him to start the 8th, so I leave him "up" while I bat in the bottom of the 7th. Normal half inning - no big rally or anything. Then, 8th inning comes around and. . . he's tired. I don't dare sit him down between innings, either, as he may get "cold." The system is just off - doesn't feel realistic. I mean, does this mean the dumbass kept throwing? C'mon, man.

Yeah, that's simply ridiculous. I don't think that happening in the game is defensible.

[Dargone]

The more I think about this the more I think adding a feature that turns it off is the way to go (getting tired in the 'pen). Seems like the simplest solution to me. Of course, I'm no programmer so I could be wrong.

People who think it's silly simply leave the feature on and people in the OP's camp turn it off. OOTP is all about choices, that's part of what makes the game great.