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OOTP Mods - Schedules Create your very own game schedules, or share historical schedules

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Old 07-28-2006, 02:50 AM   #1
Matter2003
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Cool Scheduler Progress as of 7/27/06

I had to go back thru and recode the scheduler for interdivision games to ensure it accomodated virtually all setups. Due to an error in my logic at first, I did not have it properly set up to handle different division sizes. However, at this point it WILL NOT be able to accomodate more than 2 different sized divisions(such as 4-5-6, 4-6-5-6, etc), but it will perfectly handle up to 2 different division sizes, such as 5-5-4(AL) or 5-6-5(NL)or 6-6-5-5,etc..., AND allow you to schedule an EXACT number of interdivision games(no more put in a number and hope for the best). I don't see that being a big deal for most people, but for some who have starange divisional configurations, it might be. Unfortunately getting it to accomodate wacky division configurations for interdivision play at this point would take too long to code and would push back the release even further. I will conitnue working on this for release in a later version.

Also for the next version I plan on allowing users to enter home/away splits as well, but again, for right now, I am making sure the basics that I feel are necessary are working properly first before I add other stuff.

On a good note, odd numbers of teams in a division/league should not be a problem(have completed a schedule with no problems with a 9 team division, ala Arizona League).

I have changed it so that you now can enter a series length percentage for 1-9 game series. For example, someone who loves 3 game series and 4 game series and a few 2 game series might enter:

2 Game Series: 5%
3 Game Series: 75%
4 Game Series: 20%

The reason I did this is because it makes it more accurate to set it up this way versus using a standard deviation(even if it could be user input).

Once I finish re-doing the interdivision scheduling code it should be clear sailing as everything up to the actual scheduling of games is completed and functioning properly(as far as I can tell at least). I would say the interdivisional code is roughly 90% complete---maybe even 95%---I have a few irritating things I need to correct, but that will have to wait until tomorrow...

Hopefully looking at a beta version in 10-14 days. I'll keep everyone posted. I promise this will be worth the wait....

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Last edited by Matter2003; 07-28-2006 at 03:00 AM.
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:25 AM   #2
Le Grande Orange
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You'll know when you really have something when it passes my inspection and gets my seal of approval.

Okay, kidding aside, I still can't see how adjusting the series distribution by percentage, or any other direct user input, is really going to work. To me, the format of the schedule dictates what the series distribution should be, along with a general emphasis as desired by the user (i.e. no preference, keep 2-game series numbers low, allow 5-game series or 1-game series, etc.).

I can suggest what the typical series breakdowns should be for a given number of matchups. The utility can then look up these suggested values, make a first pass at determining if the initial breakdown will fit in the alotted schedule timeframe, and then adjust that breakdown to alternate numbers for some matchups until the series counts fit into the "slots" available.

To me, the series distribution is the key, critical starting point. It should be pinned down as precisely as possible before any subsequent steps are run. And looking up the values to try strikes me as the only certain way to get that precision.

Just my non-programmer, outsider view.

Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 07-28-2006 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 07-28-2006, 10:54 PM   #3
Matter2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange
You'll know when you really have something when it passes my inspection and gets my seal of approval.

Okay, kidding aside, I still can't see how adjusting the series distribution by percentage, or any other direct user input, is really going to work. To me, the format of the schedule dictates what the series distribution should be, along with a general emphasis as desired by the user (i.e. no preference, keep 2-game series numbers low, allow 5-game series or 1-game series, etc.).

I can suggest what the typical series breakdowns should be for a given number of matchups. The utility can then look up these suggested values, make a first pass at determining if the initial breakdown will fit in the alotted schedule timeframe, and then adjust that breakdown to alternate numbers for some matchups until the series counts fit into the "slots" available.

To me, the series distribution is the key, critical starting point. It should be pinned down as precisely as possible before any subsequent steps are run. And looking up the values to try strikes me as the only certain way to get that precision.

Just my non-programmer, outsider view.
Well, I can see your point about the way a schedule should be broken up, however, if users want to make it so it is broken up a different way, I want to make it possible. Simply entering in the percentage type matchups that normally occur in a typical breakdown should produce very similar results to what you would like to see.

I don't have it programmed to use "slots". I grab the difference between the start and end date for the season, and this gives me a certain number of days to schedule games. Starting at Day 1, it runs thru the season scheduling series for each team, while checking homestands, days since last day off, etc... ending at Day 107 for example. Between day 1 and day 107(just an example---I believe this is the independent league schedule for the AA) all the games are scheduled. It looks at the all-star game break length and factors that into the actual number of days allotted to schedule.

Series distribution will be a very important point of emphasis, and I will make sure that it follows closely to what has been input when at all possible

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Old 07-28-2006, 11:23 PM   #4
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keep up the good work matter
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Old 07-29-2006, 01:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matter2003
I don't have it programmed to use "slots". I grab the difference between the start and end date for the season, and this gives me a certain number of days to schedule games.
The drawback to this method is that it could result in series not being tied to certain days of the week.

A 3-game series in the second half of the week always falls on Friday-Saturday-Sunday. If the schedule is constructed solely on days available, then you could wind up with cases where that 3-game series runs Thursday-Friday-Saturday or Sunday-Monday-Tuesday.

This is not realistic for major league schedules.

The advantage of the "slots" methodology is that it avoids series sliding through the week since the series are fixed to either the first half or second half of the week.
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Old 07-29-2006, 02:26 AM   #6
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I see your point LGO, but I believe he's programming it more for custom schedules, rather than "major leagues" since those are all readily available.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carplos
I see your point LGO, but I believe he's programming it more for custom schedules, rather than "major leagues" since those are all readily available.
Yes, but given a lot of what I've read in the way of comments about the schedules over the years, many folks want the schedules to look realistic. If series are all over the place in the week, there will be some who will not like that result.

Even then, the custom part doesn't really matter, because I'm talking more about the method of constructing the schedule. The "slots" method I've mentioned is workable for just about any schedule format; it's just a matter of juggling the initial values to get the best starting point.

Anyway, all that said, it's Matter's baby, so he's free to do it up anyway he likes. I'm just pointing out stuff, which he can completely ignore if he wants.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:14 PM   #8
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange
Yes, but given a lot of what I've read in the way of comments about the schedules over the years, many folks want the schedules to look realistic. If series are all over the place in the week, there will be some who will not like that result.

Even then, the custom part doesn't really matter, because I'm talking more about the method of constructing the schedule. The "slots" method I've mentioned is workable for just about any schedule format; it's just a matter of juggling the initial values to get the best starting point.

Anyway, all that said, it's Matter's baby, so he's free to do it up anyway he likes. I'm just pointing out stuff, which he can completely ignore if he wants.
LGO--

I appreciate your concerns, and trust me, I will continue working on "specific" types of schedules for the next version. As of right now, I will be focusing on making sure the games and schedule is complete and functional, then worry about making the various types, etc

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Old 07-30-2006, 01:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matter2003
As of right now, I will be focusing on making sure the games and schedule is complete and functional, then worry about making the various types, etc.
Oh, I understand that, I'm just saying the initial methodology you're going with to create the schedules with will quite likely result in series being scattered all through the days of the week. That doesn't look like the optimal way to proceed to me, but then, I'm not a programmer so I don't know what pitfalls other methodologies face...
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:08 PM   #10
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Smile Scheduling, Coding, Etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange
Oh, I understand that, I'm just saying the initial methodology you're going with to create the schedules with will quite likely result in series being scattered all through the days of the week. That doesn't look like the optimal way to proceed to me, but then, I'm not a programmer so I don't know what pitfalls other methodologies face...
LGO, here is the quandry I am in. Yes, I agree that MLB is the biggest, most important league in the world(at least for most people, myself included). However, with so many other leagues involved, I have to make something that is very general before it becomes very specific.

After looking thru the other minor leagues, there are only 4 minor leagues that follow this MLB pattern. They are the Eastern League(AA), Carolina League(AA), Florida State League(A), and Mexican League(AAA)---although the Mexican League doesnt follow this 100% of the time, but its pretty close, like maybe once a season, the three games aren't scheduled like that for a team.

For every other league, while they do have a 3 game series starting on Friday and ending on Sunday plenty of times, they also have plenty of times where these series start on Thursday and end on Saturday, start on Saturday and end on Monday, start on Sunday and end on Tuesday,etc...In addition there are several leagues, such as the Arizona League, Gulf Coast League, and Venezuelan Summer League that play only 1 or 2 game series, so it is not even possible to have something like that for them scheduled.

What I was planning on doing was creating a basic, general scheduler, and then create a dropdown list that a user can select a specific type of schedule(like the MLB Thursday-Friday-Saturday game only schedule), which would then be fed into an overloaded function. Basically what this would do is use the same sub/function call, but have different inputs, which would allow me to do this very easily.

The problem is that while it is not hard to get the computer to do something like that, unfortunately it is very time consuming, since you can't just tell the computer to make a sandwich, you first have to describe what a sandwich is, where to find the ingredients, and then every single step along the way involved in making a sandwich, etc. Just making sure the computer only schedules Thursday-Friday-Saturday games and coding the checks for it could comprise 500-1000 lines of code (not sure how many it would take until I actually sit down and get a plan together on how to achieve it---it could take far less, it could take more, this is just an example). Again, it would be different if I was focusing on this full time, but unfortunately I am working 55-60 hours a week on top of trying to work on this from 10 PM til whenever I can't focus anymore because I am too tired, most nights during the week. Even coding something that simple could take a few weeks, depending on how many bugs I run into, etc.

Hopefully this explains a little bit better what I am trying to do, and please don't take this as me dismissing your ideas. I agree that it is very important to be able to schedule something like what you are saying, and I will implement this, but that is definitely not going to make it in the first release(it would be like asking Markus when he made OOTP 1 to include a baseball universe---something that is doable, but something that is beyond the initial scope of what is being done).

Something I learned when working on another game is that you have to start simple and then build from there because you could literally continue trying to add stuff and add stuff and then never get finished with what you were initially trying to do. Its very important that I have a good base from which I can build from, rather than try to implement everything all at once.

Hopefully this doesnt dissapoint anyone, but unfortunately that is the reality of programming. I am pretty sure if Markus devoted his full resources to something like this he could come up with something better than what I am doing in a very short time. However, I am no Markus when it comes to coding. I am learning a lot even doing this, and am getting much better, but I still have a long way to go. As it stands right now, the scheduler is comprised of nearly 4,000 lines of code, and while that is nothing compared to a lot of programs out there, it does represent quite a lot of time...I will get to those types of schedules, but it will have to be after I have it working properly the initial way.

As for having "slots", you could think of already having a 3 game series for a team a "slot", and with some additional code, it can easily be put in a certain day on the schedule.

Hope this clarifies things a little bit...

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