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Old 03-14-2019, 02:34 PM   #281
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I liked how you could make the batter fight the pitcher in Bases Loaded. Just saying
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:56 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasmame View Post
If you have to use *proper timing* when pushing the buttons, then it's an arcade game, not a simulation since your interaction can impact the outcome.

Babe Ruth himsel would hit .000 if you always hit the button too late or too early.

Thus - arcade and not sim.
The fact that you can control the game doesn't make it arcade. In video games, simulation simply refers to the fact that the game is attempting to be realistic. It basically just refers to the style of the game, and isn't meant to use the literal definition of the word simulation. I admit that simulation probably isn't the best word, but it is what it is. Seriously, look this up if you don't believe me. It is common vernacular in sports video game communities and has been for nearly two decades.

I'll give you some examples of things you might find in an arcade style baseball game that you wouldn't find in a simulation style game:

1.) 700ft homers.
2.) 135 mph pitches.
3.) A turbo button to make your fielders run unnaturally fast or jump unnaturally high.
4.) The ability to control the movement of a pitch after it's already been released.
5.) Each player gets a stock of guaranteed homers that they can use at any point in the game while batting.

The MLB: The Show franchise has none of these things or anything even remotely similar. Everything that happens in MLB: The Show games are grounded in reality. At least, that's the intention anyway. No game is perfect.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:06 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ink625 View Post
The fact that you can control the game doesn't make it arcade. In video games, simulation simply refers to the fact that the game is attempting to be realistic. It basically just refers to the style of the game, and isn't meant to use the literal definition of the word simulation. I admit that simulation probably isn't the best word, but it is what it is. Seriously, look this up if you don't believe me. It is common vernacular in sports video game communities and has been for nearly two decades.

I'll give you some examples of things you might find in an arcade style baseball game that you wouldn't find in a simulation style game:

1.) 700ft homers.
2.) 135 mph pitches.
3.) A turbo button to make your fielders run unnaturally fast or jump unnaturally high.
4.) The ability to control the movement of a pitch after it's already been released.
5.) Each player gets a stock of guaranteed homers that they can use at any point in the game while batting.

The MLB: The Show franchise has none of these things or anything even remotely similar. Everything that happens in MLB: The Show games are grounded in reality. At least, that's the intention anyway. No game is perfect.
In MLB the show After i created myself i was 28-2 1.23 300 IP with 650 K 23 BB. Thats not realistic. My nephew was even better at 32-1 0.78 300 IP 700 k 55 BB approx.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:09 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ink625 View Post
The fact that you can control the game doesn't make it arcade. In video games, simulation simply refers to the fact that the game is attempting to be realistic. It basically just refers to the style of the game, and isn't meant to use the literal definition of the word simulation. I admit that simulation probably isn't the best word, but it is what it is. Seriously, look this up if you don't believe me. It is common vernacular in sports video game communities and has been for nearly two decades.

I'll give you some examples of things you might find in an arcade style baseball game that you wouldn't find in a simulation style game:

1.) 700ft homers.
2.) 135 mph pitches.
3.) A turbo button to make your fielders run unnaturally fast or jump unnaturally high.
4.) The ability to control the movement of a pitch after it's already been released.
5.) Each player gets a stock of guaranteed homers that they can use at any point in the game while batting.

The MLB: The Show franchise has none of these things or anything even remotely similar. Everything that happens in MLB: The Show games are grounded in reality. At least, that's the intention anyway. No game is perfect.
Not really adding to the convo but

Super Mega Baseball 2

https://store.steampowered.com/app/4...ga_Baseball_2/

Seems many people love this game. Lots of love last year on youtube and twitch.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:12 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ink625 View Post
The fact that you can control the game doesn't make it arcade. In video games, simulation simply refers to the fact that the game is attempting to be realistic. It basically just refers to the style of the game, and isn't meant to use the literal definition of the word simulation. I admit that simulation probably isn't the best word, but it is what it is. Seriously, look this up if you don't believe me. It is common vernacular in sports video game communities and has been for nearly two decades.

I'll give you some examples of things you might find in an arcade style baseball game that you wouldn't find in a simulation style game:

1.) 700ft homers.
2.) 135 mph pitches.
3.) A turbo button to make your fielders run unnaturally fast or jump unnaturally high.
4.) The ability to control the movement of a pitch after it's already been released.
5.) Each player gets a stock of guaranteed homers that they can use at any point in the game while batting.

The MLB: The Show franchise has none of these things or anything even remotely similar. Everything that happens in MLB: The Show games are grounded in reality. At least, that's the intention anyway. No game is perfect.
Sorry, but been part of this community since the early days of Earl Weaver Baseball v1.5 and later... Arcade has ALWAYS referred to the gamer controlling the actions of the in-game players... both in controller/joystick and timing. And still does.

Even if they produce reasonably realistic results and stats, the gamer having control over the batter/pitcher/fielder makes the game an arcade.

Direct control of the players beyond giving signs/commands/orders is the defining characteristic.

If OOTP's engine produced 700 foot homers, 135MPH pitches, etc.., it would still be a simulation (albeit a flawed one) and still would not be an arcade game.

"The Show"'s marketing department may have tried to spin it to be a simulation to make it stand apart and above OTHER arcade games, but that's not relevant to the reality that it still is and was an arcade style game.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:18 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by klkitchens View Post
Sorry, but been part of this community since the early days of Earl Weaver Baseball v1.5 and later... Arcade has ALWAYS referred to the gamer controlling the actions of the in-game players... both in controller/joystick and timing. And still does.

Even if they produce reasonably realistic results and stats, the gamer having control over the batter/pitcher/fielder makes the game an arcade.

Direct control of the players beyond giving signs/commands/orders is the defining characteristic.

If OOTP's engine produced 700 foot homers, 135MPH pitches, etc.., it would still be a simulation (albeit a flawed one) and still would not be an arcade game.

"The Show"'s marketing department may have tried to spin it to be a simulation to make it stand apart and above OTHER arcade games, but that's not relevant to the reality that it still is and was an arcade style game.
That's not how anyone uses those terms since around 2000 or so.

OOTP is a management sim, an offshoot of the strategy genre.

The Show is a sim-style player-action game, which like you're saying, is an offshoot of old arcade-style sports games. The aim here is realistic graphics and physics made possible by modern hardware, along with an element of player skill. These games will also usually contain a "franchise mode" that is a very light version of a management sim.

Something like RBI Baseball is an arcade-style player-action game. The graphics and physics are cartoonish and unrealistic, and the gameplay focus is on an individual match, not a season or dynasty.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:23 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by a5ehren View Post
That's not how anyone uses those terms since around 2000 or so.

OOTP is a management sim, an offshoot of the strategy genre.

The Show is a sim-style player-action game, which like you're saying, is an offshoot of old arcade-style sports games. The aim here is realistic graphics and physics made possible by modern hardware, along with an element of player skill. These games will also usually contain a "franchise mode" that is a very light version of a management sim.

Something like RBI Baseball is an arcade-style player-action game. The graphics and physics are cartoonish and unrealistic, and the gameplay focus is on an individual match, not a season or dynasty.
So, as you stated, it's an offshoot/derivative of the arcade mode games and thus still is an arcade game as has been correctly stated in this thread. Not sure why people are getting so hot and bothered (and triggered?) over calling something what it is. So these "more realistic" ones are still a subset of the arcade mode genre. Player control by the gamer has not changed and the terminology does not need to be redefined either.

Button-mashing, gamer controlled players are still arcade games.

Anyway, this has been beaten to death. People are going to think what they want. The facts have been laid out, so we should just move along before (as suggested) this thread gets locked due to incivility.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:24 PM   #288
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NBA 2K is a sim...NBA Jam is an arcade basketball game
Madden is a sim (it's really not although they claim to be)...NFL Street is an arcade game
The Show is sim...RBI baseball/super mega baseball are arcade baseball games.

The point of these games is to simulate running a team, you dont ever have to play the actual games to get that experience. If you never play a single game in an MLB The Show Franchise mode is it still an "arcade" game?

To further illustrate this, there are racing games that are considered sims (Project Cars), and some that are considered arcade racers (Burnout). They all require the player to control the car either using a controller or racing wheel. The difference is one is more realistic than the other. Thats what the deal is here too. The Show is more realistic than Super Mega Baseball. OOTP is more realistic than The Show. They can both be considered sims. You don't ever have to play the actual game of The Show and just be the GM (like I used to do when I played The Show), it just doesnt have the same depth as OOTP. Is it still an "arcade" game then?

If the 3D in OOTP never improved beyond what it is now, I personally wouldn't mind, I don't play OOTP for the experience of playing out games, (I only play out my teams playoff games and a handful of regular season games) although I know that some do, so the 3D experience should go further to satisfy that crowd, just like how I expect GM AI to continue to be improved. There doesnt have to be a war here, people.

Last edited by wallewalls; 03-14-2019 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:27 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by wallewalls View Post
You don't ever have to play the actual game of The Show and just be the GM (like I used to do when I played The Show), it just doesnt have the same depth as OOTP. Is it still an "arcade" game then? .
It would be both. It would have an arcade mode - which is always the gamer controlling the players. And a simulation mode -- where you call the shots.

Just like Earl Weaver, FPS, High Heat, etc...

If OOTP added gamer control, then it too would then have an "arcade mode".

We're all saying the same thing... just not sure why there is animosity to a proper long-standing label.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:34 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by ink625 View Post
The fact that you can control the game doesn't make it arcade. In video games, simulation simply refers to the fact that the game is attempting to be realistic. It basically just refers to the style of the game, and isn't meant to use the literal definition of the word simulation. I admit that simulation probably isn't the best word, but it is what it is. Seriously, look this up if you don't believe me. It is common vernacular in sports video game communities and has been for nearly two decades.

I'll give you some examples of things you might find in an arcade style baseball game that you wouldn't find in a simulation style game:

1.) 700ft homers.
2.) 135 mph pitches.
3.) A turbo button to make your fielders run unnaturally fast or jump unnaturally high.
4.) The ability to control the movement of a pitch after it's already been released.
5.) Each player gets a stock of guaranteed homers that they can use at any point in the game while batting.

The MLB: The Show franchise has none of these things or anything even remotely similar. Everything that happens in MLB: The Show games are grounded in reality. At least, that's the intention anyway. No game is perfect.
That's all very nice but notice I didn't mention just control - we control every game, sim or not. Timing was the critical factor in my example.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:37 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop View Post
Not really adding to the convo but

Super Mega Baseball 2

https://store.steampowered.com/app/4...ga_Baseball_2/

Seems many people love this game. Lots of love last year on youtube and twitch.
Seems as though fun could be had.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:38 PM   #292
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If OOTP added gamer control, then it too would then have an "arcade mode".
Timed control, yes.

EOT
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:48 PM   #293
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Alright all, let's halt this ever so fascinating discussion, and get back to being excited about the new features. You all know we'll keep working on both the in-game 3D and the core game experience to try to keep everyone as happy as possible and make the best game out there!
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:52 PM   #294
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Alright all, let's halt this ever so fascinating discussion, and get back to being excited about the new features. You all know we'll keep working on both the in-game 3D and the core game experience to try to keep everyone as happy as possible and make the best game out there!
Sounds like you need to leak 1 small new feature. Yes yes that is exactly what you have to do. its your destiny.

please give us another crumb. we are starving here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:flow ers:
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:30 PM   #295
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. You all know we'll keep working on both the in-game 3D and the core game experience to try to keep everyone as happy as possible and make the best game out there!

Will you also be doing the curtain call or the tip of hat when crowd wants player to come out of dugout and tip or wave hat towards crowd ?? Usually after a BIG hit or Home Run.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:41 PM   #296
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Will you also be doing the curtain call or the tip of hat when crowd wants player to come out of dugout and tip or wave hat towards crowd ?? Usually after a BIG hit or Home Run.
No, unfortunately not. But we do have fireworks!
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:50 PM   #297
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No, unfortunately not. But we do have fireworks!
was worth asking. Thanks for lighting quick response.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:30 PM   #298
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, if you're closed minded as you demonstrate
Snipped as the rest of it is garbage.

The irony of someone who calls a game that uses buttons to swing/pitch/field as "arcade" to label someone else as closed minded is :chefs kiss:
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:32 PM   #299
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Alright all, let's halt this ever so fascinating discussion, and get back to being excited about the new features.
Sure thing! Post one that is
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:40 PM   #300
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I don't think so to be honest. Also, I think they work quite well they already do right now.
I guess this only makes 3 of us- but I disagree with you on both points as well....
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