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Old 12-21-2014, 03:01 PM   #61
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well my point is, is stats only really all that realistic if defense isn't being taken into account? Players with good/great defense carry a lot of value...and should.
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Old 12-21-2014, 03:38 PM   #62
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Stats only is obviously NOT realistic. Real GMs have scouting reports.
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Old 12-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #63
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Orcin....yes, they do I think the debate however is how the AI reacts to those reports...to the AI, it's gospel....despite numbers it seems...or at least that seems to be the argument.
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:03 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
Stats only is obviously NOT realistic. Real GMs have scouting reports.
Stats only play includes scouting. You've been told that before. Pay attention.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-21-2014, 04:04 PM   #65
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Here. A refresher.

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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Damn, you guys can be persistent. Okay. Turn off ratings and stars and be sure to check the box for the AI not to use ratings in its player evaluations. Set your AI evaluation criteria to 0% ratings, 50% current year, 33% last year, 17% two years ago. Set scouts on and to average accuracy or lower if you dare. Use feeder leagues, both HS and college. If it's a fictional league, sim ahead for five years or so, that cycles the feeder leagues and gives every player a statistical history that you can use for evaluation.

Now take over a team. Do not be in Commissioner mode. Do not be unfireable. Start making decisions about players based on stats and scouting reports. Suddenly discover that the game is far, far harder than when you could see ratings and potentials.

You will either love the uncertainty or you will hate it. You will make some great trades and some awful ones. Some of your draft choices will be crap, and some will be golden. You will find yourself agonizing over player decisions - is your third baseman just in a slump or is this the beginning of the end for him? Is your catcher ever going to return to his pre-DL form, or will he be a shadow of what he was from now on? Why does your bullpen suck so badly? Should you draft this guy or that guy? Damn, you're thinking like a real-life GM.

And that's because without ratings and without potentials, you will actually have to make decisions just like a real GM does, and not like an all-knowing video gamer. And you will suddenly find yourself thinking like a GM and dealing with limited information like GM's do.

To me, it's the best way to play OOTP. But it's not for everybody, and you may not like it. But there is a hard core of stats only players who do think it's the best way to play, and if you try it you may find out you are one of us. Or not. But what have you got to lose by trying it? You already bought the game.

"It's your game, play it your way." My way is stats only. Maybe it's your way, too. Maybe it's not. Try it and see.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-21-2014, 04:07 PM   #66
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And if you are still hell-bent on maintaining that it doesn't work when it certainly does, you need to go over to the stats only thread and read all the accounts written by people who are playing the game that way and having it work for them just fine.

Or all the ones saying that they will never go back to vanilla OOTP.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-21-2014, 04:11 PM   #67
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you don't have to turn off the ratings though right wolf? just set the AI evaluation to zero...correct?
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:12 PM   #68
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I mean the only thing the number do then, is reflect what the written reports say
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:19 PM   #69
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Wolf, I am going to attempt a feeder league (again) I will need about 220 teams. I would like about 150 to be college....can you recommend a good league structure to achieve this...what about high school?
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:26 PM   #70
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I just did the wizard for a standard setup with all international leagues implemented and it gave me 256 high school teams, and 56 college...is this correct?
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:27 PM   #71
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Is the high number due to the international leagues? Should I create the MLB and feeders, and then add internationals? What will happen if I proceed?
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:32 PM   #72
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http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...gue-guide.html

Turn all ratings off.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-21-2014, 07:40 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by PSUColonel View Post
I just did the wizard for a standard setup with all international leagues implemented and it gave me 256 high school teams, and 56 college...is this correct?
For what it's worth, using the guide I'd have 100 teams in the league I'm playing now (24 * 25)/6, and doing the auto-feeder gave me 32 college and 152 HS. I'm seeing how that plays out, but I expect to trim the # of HS teams over time. This is my first time using feeders, as I went from playing with some handicaps to a full stats-only environment.

The guide says more feeders = more good players. I'll be monitoring that closely, but this first time around, it didn't seem like it.

So short version is I don't think letting the game do it harms you, especially if you want some of those undrafted kids to end up in an international league.
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Old 12-21-2014, 08:17 PM   #74
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I get the idea of turning the ratings off for stats only but I don't get why you would want to force the AI to play stats only too by turning the AI evaluation to 00. Wouldn't the competitiveness of the AI improve if it can see the ratings but the player can not?
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Old 12-21-2014, 09:06 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Shepp2230 View Post
I get the idea of turning the ratings off for stats only but I don't get why you would want to force the AI to play stats only too by turning the AI evaluation to 00. Wouldn't the competitiveness of the AI improve if it can see the ratings but the player can not?
It has to do with extending the realism. I can't speak for the competition level (but with stats only and AI set to very hard trading, I can't make a deal work, so I see that as a positive), but when he AI knows ratings, it churns and burns players that in real life would still have MLB jobs. With ratings on, it KNOWS FOR SURE that 23 year old is going to be better than the 28 year old on hand. Using the stats, it's more likely to keep the 28 year old who is doing well.

That's, personally, what I prefer. I do everything I can to minimize the quirks of a computer.
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Old 12-21-2014, 09:23 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Trebro View Post
It has to do with extending the realism. I can't speak for the competition level (but with stats only and AI set to very hard trading, I can't make a deal work, so I see that as a positive), but when he AI knows ratings, it churns and burns players that in real life would still have MLB jobs. With ratings on, it KNOWS FOR SURE that 23 year old is going to be better than the 28 year old on hand. Using the stats, it's more likely to keep the 28 year old who is doing well.

That's, personally, what I prefer. I do everything I can to minimize the quirks of a computer.
Which is another reason why stats only works. Players are judged by how they have performed (and, of course, their age).
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-21-2014, 09:26 PM   #77
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but isn't there middle ground? Something like 30/40/20/10?
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:26 PM   #78
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but isn't there middle ground? Something like 30/40/20/10?
No. The first number must be zero or it does not work. Read the instructions post above again.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-22-2014, 02:26 AM   #79
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No. The first number must be zero or it does not work. Read the instructions post above again.
Seconding this. I still have a massive idea that I have tested for some time. Whenever I had ratings as part of things, veteran players got the axe well before it was clear their stats warranted it.

When I took that rating # to zero, the AI behaved much more like real life GMs, when set at neutral preference for vets/rookies.

You're never gonna get the AI to perfectly replicate what humans do, though I think it's amazing what Marcus and Co have achieved. It's so much better than other sims I've played, it's not even funny. But you can help make it better and going to "0" for ratings is a huge help.
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Old 12-22-2014, 08:56 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUColonel View Post
Orcin....yes, they do I think the debate however is how the AI reacts to those reports...to the AI, it's gospel....despite numbers it seems...or at least that seems to be the argument.
It is well established for many versions that the AI using a streamlined scouting system based on the same principles as the reports players receive. Overall ratings are not pure scouting.

Look at AI settings this obviously affects AI decision making. You will see the AI evaluation factors. Default is ratings weight 30%, current year stats 50%, past year stats 15%. and two years ago 5%. The AI heavily makes decisions on how the player performed this year. There maybe some tweaks for minor leaguers and obviously draft players who don't come from feeders would be different but the AI puts less weight on ratings (scouting) than you think. I can't show I know the algorithm for AI decision making but the basic input factors are known and adjustable.

I think the problem is for minor league players you might want more emphasis on scouting and for major league players more emphasis on stats. You just simply can't tweak that though. This has probably been my biggest complaint over the years and it isn't huge. The scouting % in AI evaluation should differ by the age and classification of the player. Where as guys like Molina might be scouted to see if he is declining if he were a free agent I doubt many teams would be relying on a scouting report to make a decision. Where as a guy like Singleton might have a bit more weight on his reports.

So my question do most of you use the default AI evaluation or tweak it more towards or away from stats? I used to up the stats a bit but honestly haven't done that since maybe OOTP 11 or 12.
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