Careers Tailing Off?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I have no problem with guys like this being on a team. I just don't like it when the AI keeps a guy on a roster all season and doesn't use him but a handful of times and then only as a pinch hitter. Heck, if he's there and gets 60+ pinch hit at bats, I'm fine. But, you shouldn't see a guy with say 12 at bats all season taking up a roster spot. By way of example, I think a guy like Paul Konerko comes to mind. He played in only 81 games his final year, but he still had 200+ plate appearances. He played in 23 games at 1B that year and served as a DH in 36 games. The rest of his games were I'm assuming pinch hit appearances. So the Sox found a way to use him. They didn't just buy him a hotel room.

I mean, yeah but maybe his skills were still up to being used more than some of these guys' we're talking about's skills are.

I'd compare that to Tidwell's age 38 year or Rondorf's age 35 year. Those are pretty analogous to Konerko's last year. For Konerko, once it was clear the team didn't have ab's for him, he retired rather than hang around in AA or something and just get 50 ab's.

I can see looking at it either the way you are or the way I am as both being valid. Either way, I think we're agreed that it's something that probably shouldn't be happening or at least should happen a lot less.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Padreman

What does ha info reserve claus do? I'm a bit confused about that

In the past(this may have been fixed) if you used the reserve clause it wasn't uncommon to see older players fall into a sort of limbo in which they wouldn't retire, but wouldn't play either. They would basically just hold a roster spot. For example...I had Miguel Cabrera in a random debut league. From roughly age 40 to 43-44 he hardly ever played, pinch hit sparingly and was pretty much dead weight. He finally retired. Since then I've dealt with this issue by using free agency instead of the reserve clause, but setting the years required to become a free agent to a much higher number than 6. That way when a player gets older, free agency means he isn't a sure bet roster spot guy.

[PoopyJoe69]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I doubt it. That generally happens when you have roster limits set at the lowest levels of your minor leagues, it makes the ai go a bit crazy!

If you don't have limits set in your low minors though and you're still seeing a ton of sign/release activity within a few days, we might want to see you save files where this is happening.

So you can upload them to the server as described in my sig, and then drop me a line to let me know you did so, and the players that this is happening with in that specific save.

It's not really like a pervasive thing that I'm always noticing, but every now and then I'll notice a player who were signed and released a week later about 3 times a season for a season or two. For instance, in one of my other posts I talked about another HOF-er, Adam Dunn, who went through that exact problem. And while I can't pull it up right now, I know that either Tidwell or the other guy went through that exact problem.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I mean, yeah but maybe his skills were still up to being used more than some of these guys' we're talking about's skills are.

I'd compare that to Tidwell's age 38 year or Rondorf's age 35 year. Those are pretty analogous to Konerko's last year. For Konerko, once it was clear the team didn't have ab's for him, he retired rather than hang around in AA or something and just get 50 ab's.

I can see looking at it either the way you are or the way I am as both being valid. Either way, I think we're agreed that it's something that probably shouldn't be happening or at least should happen a lot less.

I actually don't see it as a huge issue when I use free agency, which is more often than not(or my own version of free agency that is). I just know with reserve clause, I was force retiring some guys once they started their limbo years.

Oh one other thing. Wondering if I'm the only one that was thrown for a loop by you changing the way your name is presented? Kept thinking there was some new guy on the forums. Ugh, I'm so easily fooled.

[Padreman]

Delete

[NoOne]

filter for age > X and contact < X

i choose contact, because if they can't hit anywhere near average for the league they are quite useless with fewer exceptions than using other ratings... using more than 1 makes it even better... probably only power would be the 2nd concern.

i worry more about ability than age, so i may drop the age as low as 34-35+ and the contact under 35-40ish. If you keep up on it, it's a small list of players each year or ever few years. You can easily glance over it for exceptions you wish to make.

30-35 contact is probably the mendoza line equivalent, without using hte editor to figure it out. if your league isn't overly saturated or bare that should stay proportional to your league (i.e. it may translate above or below .200 in your league despite the editor's prediction, but should still mean crappy in a relative sense.)

mark reynolds (last year?) in the game was 40con and 80some power or thereabouts... not so outrageous for a 40 contact guy to be useful, but if they are otherwise junky, i mas retire the list. i am a bit more lenient for certain positions, like catchers.

I do somethign similar with pitchers, but i focus on stuff. again, it's a small list so it is easy to find exceptions with a glance, if somethign sticks out. all three of the major ratings are easily incorporated and useful to filter the list. even velocity, if it's extremely low.

(100% accuracy temporarily might be wise, or if lazy like me, just give a little more and maybe take the last seasons stats into consideration if there wasn't a massive drop in ability over that time period, in which case those stats are not very representative of the current player.)

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

I think the thing is that in real life these guys would generally retire, rather than hang around as bit players. Or they might play in Asia or somewhere else once their skills declined.

So the skills declining is certainly realistic, but the part where they hang around for several years as the last player on an MLB bench isn't. It's probably something we should look at.

In real life these guys don't typically retire while still under contract. Just look at Ryan Howard. Clearly he now sucks but yet he still is given plenty of playing time due to his contract. An OOTP club would have him just sitting on the bench.

[jpeters1734]

going through this thread almost makes me want to put far more weight into stats 2 years ago and last year and almost none in current year. Say you have a guy that plays 10 seasons in a row above 6 war. the 11th season he starts to age and has an average season. if you put nothing into 2 years ago, I don't feel like the AI wouldn't treat the player realistically.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

In real life these guys don't typically retire while still under contract. Just look at Ryan Howard. Clearly he now sucks but yet he still is given plenty of playing time due to his contract. An OOTP club would have him just sitting on the bench.

That's a good point.

I was assuming the two specifically quoted examples weren't under contract since they were jumping teams a bit, but that could've mostly been through trades for all I know.

[SaoMagnifico]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Yeah that isn't common. This is one area where I'm not sure OOTP models it that well. Good players seem to "fall off of a cliff" a little early in OOTP as opposed to how many seem to slowly lose their skills in real life.

Yes, and I think OOTP doesn't do a good job of modeling retirements. I've seen a lot of slam-dunk HoFers end up taking minor league contracts to play in AAA or accepting contracts from teams in Mexico or Korea to play when they're down to 1/2-star ratings. Does anybody think Albert Pujols or Mark Teixeira are going to latch on with the Guerreros de Oaxaca and play for $50,000 salaries for a couple years after their sterling careers as major-leaguers? In OOTP, I see it all the time.

[jpeters1734]

Nanny Ramirez just signed with an Indy Japan team

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Nanny Ramirez just signed with an Indy Japan team

Yeah but that's just "Manny being Manny...".

[NoOne]

Nanny has a ring to it