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Old 06-07-2016, 04:46 PM   #1
trence
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How Important Is Each Attribute?

I'm trying to get some grasp on which ratings are most important for batters and pitchers in order to make better decisions on free agency and the draft. Based on your experimentation, what weight would you give each rating?

For example on hitters,
Contact = 1.0
Power = 0.9
Etc?
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:57 PM   #2
RchW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trence View Post
I'm trying to get some grasp on which ratings are most important for batters and pitchers in order to make better decisions on free agency and the draft. Based on your experimentation, what weight would you give each rating?

For example on hitters,
Contact = 1.0
Power = 0.9
Etc?
Not sure isolated weighting is worthwhile because players are physically different and we expect different things from different positions. Power is a bonus in a 2B and CF and generally expected in 3B 1B RF and LF. Shortstops go all over the map but defense is a big deal at SS and 2B. Catchers, well you take what you get and if it is a superstar you keep 'em!

Look for balance in power contact gap eye low k baserunning and defense. That's the winning formula.
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Not sure isolated weighting is worthwhile because players are physically different and we expect different things from different positions. Power is a bonus in a 2B and CF and generally expected in 3B 1B RF and LF. Shortstops go all over the map but defense is a big deal at SS and 2B. Catchers, well you take what you get and if it is a superstar you keep 'em!

Look for balance in power contact gap eye low k baserunning and defense. That's the winning formula.
For the sake of god, don't say that certain defensive positions should have certain offensive attributes! When a batter is at the plate or a runner is on the bases, which positions they play on defense is -completly irrelevant-. I've had slap-hitting 1B and DH with >.350 batting averages and low power, homer mashing CF and SS, catchers leading off.
The only thing that is relevant is the total offensive contribution of a player. The easiest stat to compare it with is wOBA. Whether he does it with walks, singles or home runs, is his problem. The easier his defensive position, the higher his wOBA should be.
Whether he hits for power, average or OBP will then only determine his position in the lineup.
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:46 PM   #4
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The point is, you can live with an all glove/no hit SS because that provides more value than an all glove/no hit 1B.
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trence View Post
I'm trying to get some grasp on which ratings are most important for batters and pitchers in order to make better decisions on free agency and the draft. Based on your experimentation, what weight would you give each rating?

For example on hitters,
Contact = 1.0
Power = 0.9
Etc?




some ppl like to build their teams on power - so Gap and Power would be highly rated.


power hitters are typically going to cost more contract-wise, so if you have a tight budget, you might decide to build your team more around a OBP statistic, and Contact & Eye would be very important as well as avoid K


your home stadium might even bring into play whether power or OBP is better for your team. and perhaps even whether you want to be heavy with R or L batters/pitchers
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:53 PM   #6
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I start with Pitching and defense in which go hand in hand but then I look for solid hitters who are good fielders. As far as pitchers I love power pitchers with good control.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:41 PM   #7
MarkInCincy
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I convert ratings to wOBA and FIP then those to WAR, an inexact science at best, defense is a gut feel for me

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Old 06-07-2016, 07:12 PM   #8
Sam_15
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In terms of having a successful team, each core attribute (contact, power, stuff, control, etc.) is equally important. No one attribute can get you to the playoffs; if it could, teams would scout players specifically for that attribute. Regardless, having a player lacking in a key area will come back to bite you in some shape or form - like, having a pitcher with great stuff and control is nice, but without good movement he'll likely let a bunch of balls leave the park. The best teams, more often than not, simply have the best balance of attributes among their players.

But if you value a certain attribute above others, that's fine, especially if it works. It all comes down to personal preference and even a bit of luck.
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:31 PM   #9
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I prefer a mix. You want guys with contact and gap ability to get on base (great if they have speed also) and power guys to bring them home with one swing.
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:19 AM   #10
Cobby
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For hitters, I'd weight the ratings something like this:

Contact: 5
Gap : 1
Power: 2
Eye: 2
Avoid Ks: 0

I came up with this by playing around in the player editor and noting the effect of each rating on the projected wOBA.

Contact is batting average (hits/AB)
Gap is number of doubles (2B/AB)
Power is number of home runs (HR/AB)
Eye is number of walks (absolute number. So if one scales to PAs then number of hits, outs, 2Bs, HRs are reduced proportionally)
Avoid K's has to do with how many outs are strikeouts vs outs on balls in play. This doesn't have any effect on wOBA and can be ignored if one uses wOBA to estimate batting skill.

Also the game takes care of this for you anyway. You can see by looking at player ratings in your league that there is a pronounced correlation between contact and Avoid Ks.

Pitching is more complicated.

Stuff has to do with hits and strikeouts (but relievers get a stuff boost)
Movement has to do with hits and home runs, but the type of pitcher (GB vs FB) plays into that too.
Control is walks.
(And then there's the number of different pitches and stamina that are important for determining whether a pitcher can be a starter.)

But if I had to take a shot at it, I'd say something along the lines of:

Stuff: 3
Movement: 5
Control: 2
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBojangles View Post
I prefer a mix. You want guys with contact and gap ability to get on base (great if they have speed also) and power guys to bring them home with one swing.
That's the way I run my team.
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Old 06-08-2016, 07:02 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by MrBojangles View Post
I prefer a mix. You want guys with contact and gap ability to get on base (great if they have speed also) and power guys to bring them home with one swing.
Pretty much my formula, though at least for me it's contact and eye to get on base, with gap being sort of a low-grade power. I tend to like my #3 hitter to have good gap.

I also tend to go for defense at SS and usually at C with those guys batting 7/8 in some order (I play with no DH, so the P bats 9th).

I kind of see, with some flexibility of course, each of the first five spots in the lineup as kind of a "position" with different attributes with #6 the best remaining hitter and 7 and 8 usually defense first players.

1st) Eye and contact. I don't care if there's any power/gap. Traditionalists think speed is important here, but I don't. It's a nice addition, but it really isn't more valuable here than at other lineup spots, where it's more likely to avoid DP's.

2nd) Eye and contact also, but I try to have some gap as well, much more than at leadoff. Sabermetricians are moving toward the view that the best overall batter should hit here, but I haven't yet accepted that into my mental scheme (even though I can see myself eventually accepting it).

3rd) Contact/Gap/At least halfway decent power. I'll put up with lower Eye here than anywhere else in the Top 6. That has at least some sabermetric backing, in that from what I've read it's the lineup position least likely to lead off an inning, which makes poor eye at least a little more tolerable. He'll usually be the guy traditionalists would see as the best hitter.

4th) Basically the guy from whom I expect the highest slugging percentage, as long as he'll also have a decent on-base percentage. He's usually the guy who is the one I actually think of as the best hitter.

5th) Rather than just a lesser power hitter than the #4 guy, as traditional thinking is, I look for a pure sabermetric player, power and eye, letting other attributes be lower as necessary. The #5 hitter is likely to lead off the second most innings from what I've read (the #1 hitter, of course, leads off the most) so eye is underrated in the #5 slot.

I generally go for one more good offensive player, who bats 6th, but it'll be the hitter who worst fits into one of the top 5 slots (unless he's one of the best two hitters or something, in which case I'll work him into the top 5) and then at two positions have defense-first guys who bat 7th and 8th, 8th being the lower expected OBP, because the least valuable walk or even single is just before the pitcher bats.

But basically, if one of those top 5 offensive "positions" is without a player who fits it, I'll deliberately seek out the kind of hitter who can fill it well, looking for, say, a "#2 hitter" (good eye, contact, and at least above average gap) the same way I'd look for a "third baseman" (good IF arm, acceptable IF error/range, enough turn DP to qualify) if I needed one.

I know lots of studies show batting order makes very little difference, but I definitely believe a team is better off with some high-OBP guys to get on base plus some high-SLG guys to bring them in rather than all OBP or all SLG, even if in both cases the OPS,WAR,RC/27, or whatever general stat one uses is the same.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:10 PM   #13
trence
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Thanks for all your replies, everyone. Just a testament to how deep this game is that everyone has different approaches.

I have managed to to build decent teams so far, but can't make it overcome that playoff hump. Hopefully soon.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:53 PM   #14
chriskelly
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glad you posted, and thanks for the replies; I'm struggling with this too.

-I use overall ratings to sort, but for the life of me I can't comprehend how they are calculated. Is defense factored into a players overall rating? How about other stuff like speed / bunting ability / etc?
-Do you guys prefer the default (overall rating vs players at the same position) or vs all players?
-When you change these settings, do you find the AI evaluates players differently too?
-Aren't contact and avoid K's basically the same thing?
-I always look for SP's with 3 pitches above 50 on an 80 pt scale. But, are pitchers with 4 or 5 pitches more valuable, even if some are 40'ish? or would you rather have 3 strong pitches?
-I know RPs only need 2 pitches, but would you prefer one with 3 very good pitches to one with 2 great pitches?
-If I have a player with ratings at both RF and LF, but 1 is much higher than the other, is that mostly a factor of experience? I know arm is important......but, can I expect a good LF to play just as well in RF, where arm is less vital?
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:29 PM   #15
ThePretender
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Don't use overall ratings, they're usually terrible.

Contact and avoid K are quite different, and each has a unique benefit. While avoid K is part of the contact calculation, having a low/medium/high avoid K can have a surprising impact on a player.

You can have a SP do well whether they have 5, 50 or so pitches or 3, 80+ pitches.

Defence is based on experience and OF ratings. Look to that over RF/LF ratings.
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