1900 Hw - Page 2

bear · 06-23-2005, 03:15 PM

Knew about Thompson and was vaguely aware of Ruhlin. Sharkey and Mahar are news to me. Thanks for sharing.

Bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by beekman

Bear,
Thanks for the offer, but I have a copy of Milo to Londos. Ladd and those guys are a bit down the road in my project. Right now I'm working on the chapter concerning the catch stylists of the late 19th -early 20th century (Burns, McLeod, Jenkins, Gotch, etc.). One thing that I was not aware of previously is that the state of boxing was so bad at the turn of the 20th century (fake fights, intentional fouls to stop fights, bribed refs in S.F., repeal of the Horton Law in NY) that many of the top guys turned to wrestling to make a buck. Fitzsimmons, Ruhlin, Sharkey, and Maher all kept themselves afloat for a period by grappling (usually Greco-Roman style). Mervine Thompson, however, switched to wrestling full-time and became a decent catch wrestler.
Beekman

CONN CHRIS · 06-23-2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beekman

Bear,
Thanks for the offer, but I have a copy of Milo to Londos. Ladd and those guys are a bit down the road in my project. Right now I'm working on the chapter concerning the catch stylists of the late 19th -early 20th century (Burns, McLeod, Jenkins, Gotch, etc.). One thing that I was not aware of previously is that the state of boxing was so bad at the turn of the 20th century (fake fights, intentional fouls to stop fights, bribed refs in S.F., repeal of the Horton Law in NY) that many of the top guys turned to wrestling to make a buck. Fitzsimmons, Ruhlin, Sharkey, and Maher all kept themselves afloat for a period by grappling (usually Greco-Roman style). Mervine Thompson, however, switched to wrestling full-time and became a decent catch wrestler.
Beekman

There was quite a bit of cross pollination between the two sports at that time. I believe that Gotch had a boxing bout or two in Alaska. It will be fun to hear about your project Beekman.

Christopher

beekman · 06-23-2005, 07:06 PM

Chris,
Yup. Gotch was DQ'ed in a Dawson City match against Paddy Slavin. Farmer Burns sent him up there to get some seasoning (and under the name "Kennedy"). Looks like Buffalo MW Al Weinig (who also competed as a pro bicycle rider) also did some wrestling (read that one today).
Files: one decent, one mediocre, one poor.
Beekman

Cap · 06-23-2005, 10:30 PM

Greetings, Senor Beekman. I was wondering if you should by any chance come across a photo of White Hope HW Dan Daily in your perusings of the venerable Police Gazette, mayhap you might consider making a copy for our buddy Steamboat here. The Police Gazette is the only publication I can think of that might have his photo.

Many thanks,
Cap

beekman · 06-24-2005, 09:39 AM

Cap,
Okay. I'll keep an eye out for Daily. It's really too bad that a scan of a pic of a microfilm looks so crummy, because there are TONS of photos in these things. If I run across Daily I'll try to make a copy of it for him, but I don't have a scanner so I'll have to mail it to him (which is no big deal).
Beekman

bear · 06-24-2005, 04:17 PM

Cap
Have you checked with the boxrec editors? Whover is entering bouts for Daily appears to have used some local newspapers. Perhaps the editor may have seen a pic of Daily in their research.

Bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

Greetings, Senor Beekman. I was wondering if you should by any chance come across a photo of White Hope HW Dan Daily in your perusings of the venerable Police Gazette, mayhap you might consider making a copy for our buddy Steamboat here. The Police Gazette is the only publication I can think of that might have his photo.

Many thanks,
Cap

Cap · 06-24-2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bear

Cap
Have you checked with the boxrec editors? Whover is entering bouts for Daily appears to have used some local newspapers. Perhaps the editor may have seen a pic of Daily in their research.

Bear

Hi, Bear. That occurred to me, but I thought the image quality would be better in the old Police Gazettes.

Cap

bear · 06-24-2005, 07:28 PM

Cap
I think in either case you are likely to be dealing with microfilm readers and reproductions of printout from them, Unless you are lucky enough to find actual magazines.
I've got copies of some magazines that overlap Daily's career dates. Next time I go through them I'll keep my eyes open.

Bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

Hi, Bear. That occurred to me, but I thought the image quality would be better in the old Police Gazettes.

Cap

Cap · 06-25-2005, 07:40 PM

I see a few of the Police Gazettes on eBay every so often.

Cap

beekman · 06-27-2005, 09:49 AM

The sporting milieu of the Police Gazette was, to put in mildly, different from today's. Everyone in the country seemed to have been a champion of something. I've run across defis from champion shin kickers, head butters, deaf-mute wrestlers, one-armed boxers, and tonsorialists (speed barbers -- you read that right). My favorite is the champion eleven year old cigarette smoker (he smoked 18 packs a day in training!). So, in honor of that bizarre universe in give you . . .

bear · 06-27-2005, 10:01 AM

I can't really say anything. Back when I smoked I used to compete in pipesmoking contests. Contestants were given two matches and an ounce of cube-cut burley tobacco, one minute to light their pipe with the matches at the start and no relighting. I used to practice by smoking a cube cut burley. it has different burning characteristics than my usual tobacco. There'd be about forty people in one room smoking pipes. I used to tell everyone that the public was welcome to these contests. I happy I wasn't competing in a cigarette contest.

Bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by beekman

The sporting milieu of the Police Gazette was, to put in mildly, different from today's. Everyone in the country seemed to have been a champion of something. I've run across defis from champion shin kickers, head butters, deaf-mute wrestlers, one-armed boxers, and tonsorialists (speed barbers -- you read that right). My favorite is the champion eleven year old cigarette smoker (he smoked 18 packs a day in training!). So, in honor of that bizarre universe in give you . . .

CONN CHRIS · 06-27-2005, 10:06 AM

These are fun ratings Beekman - thank you. I rated Gotch as a heavyweight a while back based on his ugly bout with Slavin and one other bout on the west coast. I have since updated that rating though (you can download it through my link below if you care to)

I am enjoying the turn-of-the-century news that you are bringing to us!

Christopher

bear · 06-27-2005, 10:48 AM

Mike Tyson should have launched his come back with this guy. LOL

Bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by beekman

The sporting milieu of the Police Gazette was, to put in mildly, different from today's. Everyone in the country seemed to have been a champion of something. I've run across defis from champion shin kickers, head butters, deaf-mute wrestlers, one-armed boxers, and tonsorialists (speed barbers -- you read that right). My favorite is the champion eleven year old cigarette smoker (he smoked 18 packs a day in training!). So, in honor of that bizarre universe in give you . . .

beekman · 06-28-2005, 09:56 AM

Here are three regional title claimants with no BoxRec #s.

beekman · 06-28-2005, 10:00 AM

Bear, You have given me a great segue. This guy was the Danny Williams of the early 20th century. Please note: I've already posted him once, but there is no change to the ratings from the earlier post -- just a much-expanded biography noting his 15 minutes of fame (thanks to some articles I read yesterday).

bear · 06-28-2005, 05:03 PM

Monroe was a miner who has some roughly edged skill. He embarassed the California Grizzley Bear in an exhibition and earned himself a title shot.
Much hyped event. Monroe later lost an arm in the Great War. He was, if I recall, a member of the Princess Pat's.

Bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by beekman

Bear, You have given me a great segue. This guy was the Danny Williams of the early 20th century. Please note: I've already posted him once, but there is no change to the ratings from the earlier post -- just a much-expanded biography noting his 15 minutes of fame (thanks to some articles I read yesterday).

bear · 06-28-2005, 05:18 PM

I was looking through some xeroxes of old Mirror of Life and Boxing World
hoping to maybe find a Dan Daily pic for Cap. Found an issue that has a picture of a kid, a relative of Freddie Welsh, likely a nephew. Kid had a belt and boxing gloves and was claiming the 3 stone 3 lb title and was hurling defis to any 6 year olds. Some of the ads are a hoot too. Lots of adds for various snake oils to rejuvenate "weak" men. The Viagra of 1913 type of stuff.

Bear

Quote:

Originally Posted by beekman

The sporting milieu of the Police Gazette was, to put in mildly, different from today's. Everyone in the country seemed to have been a champion of something. I've run across defis from champion shin kickers, head butters, deaf-mute wrestlers, one-armed boxers, and tonsorialists (speed barbers -- you read that right). My favorite is the champion eleven year old cigarette smoker (he smoked 18 packs a day in training!). So, in honor of that bizarre universe in give you . . .

beekman · 06-29-2005, 09:17 AM

Bear,
Yeah, I've seen lots of pics of kid boxers in the Police Gazette, some of them barely old enough to walk. Yesterday I read an article about the 12 year old brother of a famous boxing family contemplating turning pro. I don't recall which family, however. I want to say the kid was a Britt, but I really don't recall.
The best thing I read yesterday regarded the practice of young fighters taking the name of a boxing hero and putting "Young" in front of it. It seems that everyone who ever had any success in the ring earned this honor at some point. I suppose Young Corbett was the most famous of these guys. Anyway, the one I ran across yesterday that stopped me in my tracks was a fighter who adopted the name "Young Joe Grim." Wow, I'd love to have heard him explain that one to mom -- "I know boxing is dangerous, but don't worry I'm going to be the new human punching bag."

beekman · 06-30-2005, 10:03 AM

No one too special in this group.

Cap · 07-01-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beekman

Bear, You have given me a great segue. This guy was the Danny Williams of the early 20th century. Please note: I've already posted him once, but there is no change to the ratings from the earlier post -- just a much-expanded biography noting his 15 minutes of fame (thanks to some articles I read yesterday).

Hi, Beekman. Check out Jack's bio in the online fighters' database.

06-23-2005, 10:30 PM	#24
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,774 Blog Entries: 4	Greetings, Senor Beekman. I was wondering if you should by any chance come across a photo of White Hope HW Dan Daily in your perusings of the venerable Police Gazette, mayhap you might consider making a copy for our buddy Steamboat here. The Police Gazette is the only publication I can think of that might have his photo. Many thanks, Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

06-24-2005, 09:39 AM	#25
beekman Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens, OH Posts: 148	1900 Cap, Okay. I'll keep an eye out for Daily. It's really too bad that a scan of a pic of a microfilm looks so crummy, because there are TONS of photos in these things. If I run across Daily I'll try to make a copy of it for him, but I don't have a scanner so I'll have to mail it to him (which is no big deal). Beekman

06-25-2005, 07:40 PM	#29
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,774 Blog Entries: 4	I see a few of the Police Gazettes on eBay every so often. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

06-27-2005, 10:06 AM	#32
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 28,367	These are fun ratings Beekman - thank you. I rated Gotch as a heavyweight a while back based on his ugly bout with Slavin and one other bout on the west coast. I have since updated that rating though (you can download it through my link below if you care to) I am enjoying the turn-of-the-century news that you are bringing to us! Christopher __________________ Check Out My Cards!

06-29-2005, 09:17 AM	#38
beekman Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Athens, OH Posts: 148	1900 Bear, Yeah, I've seen lots of pics of kid boxers in the Police Gazette, some of them barely old enough to walk. Yesterday I read an article about the 12 year old brother of a famous boxing family contemplating turning pro. I don't recall which family, however. I want to say the kid was a Britt, but I really don't recall. The best thing I read yesterday regarded the practice of young fighters taking the name of a boxing hero and putting "Young" in front of it. It seems that everyone who ever had any success in the ring earned this honor at some point. I suppose Young Corbett was the most famous of these guys. Anyway, the one I ran across yesterday that stopped me in my tracks was a fighter who adopted the name "Young Joe Grim." Wow, I'd love to have heard him explain that one to mom -- "I know boxing is dangerous, but don't worry I'm going to be the new human punching bag."